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RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 1:02:21 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!


Oh, of course the vanilla world won't recognize it.  This doesn't mean you can't have it, now does it?  Do you recognize yourself as a slave, despite the fact most people in the world would probably say you can't be owned, that slavery is illegal?


Slavery is illegal. That means that no one really owns anything and your "slave" can pick up the phone and call 911 on your ass if you beat her too hard. If you cheat and piss her off, she can also share what you two did together, possibly costing your job, child custody, friends and family.

That's the reality of what we do. If you want to really own someone and not have to deal with that, then you should consider moving.


With all due respect, what you were responding to was clearly about slavery and would not apply to a sub dynamic - unless of course you view being  a sub as illegal.
 
Master's dorei

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 5:20:34 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		When i discussed this thread with the One who owns me He had a much better scenerio to offer than i had previously posted, regarding those who have issues in the situation where the slave does all the work, and the Master receives the credit.

Master asks, "How many chefs do you think will be personally thanked by The Queen after having dinner with President Bush?"

Master's dorei

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 5:25:01 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Again LA you speak so very well. Honeslty that quote or whatever seems to be just a fantasy that kind of thing can not exist just because well think of it the venilla world isnt gunna care that she is a slave to a Master if she does something they dont like they are gunna blame her... If he tells her to rob a bank and she does the police arent gunna arrest the Master they are gunna arrest the slave!!!


Oh, of course the vanilla world won't recognize it.  This doesn't mean you can't have it, now does it?  Do you recognize yourself as a slave, despite the fact most people in the world would probably say you can't be owned, that slavery is illegal?


Slavery is illegal. That means that no one really owns anything and your "slave" can pick up the phone and call 911 on your ass if you beat her too hard. If you cheat and piss her off, she can also share what you two did together, possibly costing your job, child custody, friends and family.

That's the reality of what we do. If you want to really own someone and not have to deal with that, then you should consider moving.


With all due respect, what you were responding to was clearly about slavery and would not apply to a sub dynamic - unless of course you view being  a sub as illegal.
 
Master's dorei


Well... yeah... slavery is illegal and a slave can do all those things. Pointing that out does not mean I think a sub is less likely to defend herself or just be a sore ex.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 5:39:49 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		i appreciate your honesty here, and that you came back to the board to discuss it.

i do not mean to point you out specifically, but it seems like there is a lot of witch hunting going on regarding the Master/slave dynamic. Not just you Aquatic, but i see it all over, that people post the most ridiculous scenerios they can come up with and associate it with M/s.

In light of the number of Doms and subs who i personally know who would consider themselves victimized by a BDSM partner, i suppose the idea of having no limits, no safe words, and such could be pretty scarey. But i must admit, i do not personally know anyone who was living in service to their Master who was killed by Him.

i know a number of M/s couples, and i do not know any of them who feel they are being abused, or are abusing their property. This is not to say they do not have their own challenges, but abused? No.

All of the people i know personally, who consider  themselves to have been abused, identify as Doms and subs. Most of them had not been together long. Quite a few occured during their first meeting.

Before jumping on Chicken Little's band wagon that the sky is falling if you are enslaved, i invite everyone to examine their own experiences and see where the real dangers lie.

Master's dorei

< Message edited by MasterNdorei -- 5/6/2007 6:06:29 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 5:59:43 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings, dorei.

It is good to have your input.  You're now the second respondee on this thread to live in a dynamic similar to my own, the one I was posting on.  I'm glad for this, too, as it highlights not only the possibility but the existence of this dynamic.

Your thoughts, contrasted with some of the other posters', is validating a point I was only coming to consider at the time of the post: the difference between a Master and a Dom, as I have defined them, and the large gap between the two categories of dynamic.
Here, I will note, as perhaps I should have in the original post, that the large difference between what I consider to be a Master and what I consider to be a Dom does not mean that either is a better dynamic, nor does it mean that those who consider themselves a "Master" or a "Dom" in their own dynamics, which finds different terminology in my own, are any different or less in any aspect of their own dynamic.  I feel that a fair number may have been insulted by the fact I would not coin them a "Master" by my definitions, feeling that this is somehow a challenge to their "Master" status in their own.

I appreciate the maturity and constructive manner in which you've approached the topic.  After considering your thoughts, and examining the possibility that some of the responses on this board may have been rude for more than the usual reasons, I must ask: is the M/s dynamic one that finds misrepresentation or misunderstanding even inside of the BDSM world?

I've received several private messages concerning this thread, many of which stated this dynamic and the views surrounding it to be Gorean.  While I'm inclined to agree, I feel as though the same dynamic, minus the title "Gorean", comes under unusual fire.  If you're educated on the subject, as I am not, do you know if the Gorean dynamic suffers similar issues?

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 6:18:32 PM   
soulfulkitten


Posts: 27
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		Hello,

I somewhat agree with you.

For me, the differences are more between submissive and slave rather than Master and slave.  A Dominant could own a slave as well as a Master.  I suppose part of the issue of defining terminology is best left up to the individual and their expections, needs and/or wants.

For me, I claim to be submissive, but within the confines of a relationship and with time that could deepend to identifying as a slave.  But, I also believe that my actions are a reflection of my Dominant whether or not I have identified as slave.  I feel that I give my hard limits and that the rules/instructions/orders are given by my Sir, according to what he knows as acceptable or not defined by my hard limts.

I don't feel any differently in regards to level or caring or willingness or wanting to follow direction, depending on my terminology.  I guess for me the ultimate thing for slavery is that my limits are now gone, and are his.

I would have to say I applaud a Domme, whos submisive has now grown to have have hard limits.

Looking out for your partners best interests although it seems to make sense, not everyone can do that, for whatever reasons.

Nope, not discombobulated.

soulful_kitten

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 6:55:42 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei

When i discussed this thread with the One who owns me He had a much better scenerio to offer than i had previously posted, regarding those who have issues in the situation where the slave does all the work, and the Master receives the credit.

Master asks, "How many chefs do you think will be personally thanked by The Queen after having dinner with President Bush?"

Master's dorei


This is the last thing I can really contribute to the viewpoints presented in the thread without rehashing old stuff.

A team of enginners that I supervise builds a bridge.

I can claim all the credit for building the bridge.

I can claim all the responsibility for building the bridge.

Now whether, in reality, I actually I deserve all that credit and responsibility is another story.

President Bush can claim all the responsibility and credit for the Queen's wonderful dinner.

It doesnt change the fact that to produce that wonderful dinner, work, credit, and responsibility didnt fall on the chefs.

I wont dispute the claim.

If your dynamic works by one member claiming all the credit and responsibility, there is nothing wrong with that.

I will, however, dispute the notion that for a successful relationship to be successful, both people in the relationship didnt have to work and fulfill responsibilities and arent both deserving of credit if they both in fact want to claim it.

I hope that provides some clarity.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/6/2007 6:56:45 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 7:13:08 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I will, however, dispute the notion that for a successful relationship to be successful, both people in the relationship didnt have to work and fulfill responsibilities and arent both deserving of credit if they both in fact want to claim it.

I hope that provides some clarity.


My friend, I'm unsure if this point has been clearly expressed to you..
In the M/s dynamic, as defined in this thread, the Master adopts the responsibilities of the slave in her collaring and, as her owner, gains any new ones that would have fallen to her as if the dynamic had no occured.  However, she maintains a singular responsibily, one that consumes her attention in its entirety, to her Master.

One thing that I'm still considering, though, is the obligation of relationship.  In this dynamic, both Master and slave accept the premise: slave obeys Master, Master accepts full responsibility and credit.  In my relationship, and those of similar nature which I've observed, slaves have been incredibly loyal, never disobeying (except in minor instances of misunderstanding, which I do not find blameworthy) nor rebelious.  Masters have had no trouble guiding a slave to the degree which they desire.

This is to say, I've found these relationships to be without strain nor drama.  I'm curious if most following this dynamic are so blessed?

(in reply to MadRabbit)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 7:24:46 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Oh to be a child again and return to the days of perfect certainty. 

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 7:35:02 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Oh to be a child again and return to the days of perfect certainty. 


You perceive childhood and certainty in the presented questions and earnest approach to such?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 7:50:23 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei
Master asks, "How many chefs do you think will be personally thanked by The Queen after having dinner with President Bush?"

Master's dorei

That doesn't mean the Queen is under the impression that only one person is solely responsible or should receive any credit for the entire dinner affair.

When you attend a formal state dinner, you thank the wife of the official hosting, or the official themselves if they are female.  That hardly means you believe that only the wife or official was the only person who did anything towards making it a successful event and that no one else deserves any credit.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:01:25 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterNdorei

Master asks, "How many chefs do you think will be personally thanked by The Queen after having dinner with President Bush?"

Master's dorei


That doesn't mean the Queen is under the impression that only one person is solely responsible or should receive any credit for the entire dinner affair.

When you attend a formal state dinner, you thank the wife of the official hosting, or the official themselves if they are female.  That hardly means you believe that only the wife or official was the only person who did anything towards making it a successful event and that no one else deserves any credit.


A chef for the President worked for pay, at the order of the President or subordinate, for not only the pay, but for the honor of being able to present a fine meal to the Queen.

A slave does not serve the guests of a dinner party; she has done nothing for them.  Her actions were at the command of her Master and she did them for the sole purpose of filling such commands.  She does not desire credit for the meal from others outside of the compliment of having served her Master well.



Edit:  Typo.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/6/2007 8:04:17 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:11:29 PM   
SirAmberWolf


Posts: 11
Joined: 1/18/2006
Status: offline 		it purely really up to the way the people involved interpret the relationship ...Dom/sub  or Master/slave wise for some its just not in the cards to take it to the Master/slave level ....and or some people just enjoy the lackness theirin a Dom/sub relationship ...tis not to say either is better farbeit for me to interpret that for anyone else.

_____________________________

The Love and Understanding between Master and slave is a wonderfull thing to behold.rejoice for where there is adoration grows the seeds of Love.

(in reply to Kalbar)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:21:19 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

A slave does not serve the guests of a dinner party; she has done nothing for them.  Her actions were at the command of her Master and she did them for the sole purpose of filling such commands.  She does not desire credit for the meal from others outside of the compliment of having served her Master well.



Edit:  Typo.


Ahh... we are so lucky that someone can come and tell us what a slave does and does not do.  I'm happier still that my owner doesn't buy into all that. I get credit for what I do because... you know... I did it.

When I write a great paper because my teacher told me to do it, I still get credit. Interestingly enough, I find the teacher/student dynamic similiar to d/s. They have what I want and I've got to jump through all their bloody hoops to get it.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 5/6/2007 8:22:19 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:31:03 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Ahh... we are so lucky that someone can come and tell us what a slave does and does not do.  I'm happier still that my owner doesn't buy into all that. I get credit for what I do because... you know... I did it.

When I write a great paper because my teacher told me to do it, I still get credit. Interestingly enough, I find the teacher/student dynamic similiar to d/s. They have what I want and I've got to jump through all their bloody hoops to get it.


As already stated, both "Master" and "slave", as used in this thread, are with regards to previously stated definitions; this concerns the stated dynamic.  This said, statements concerning what a slave does or does not do refers to slaves within this dynamic, as made apparent in defining "slave" as a slave in this dynamic.

If you still find it difficult to understand that the statements in question are concerning slaves within this dynamic, and not any particular individual someone else might call a "slave", you are free to message me in private where I may attempt to make it clear.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:37:16 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Ahh... we are so lucky that someone can come and tell us what a slave does and does not do.  I'm happier still that my owner doesn't buy into all that. I get credit for what I do because... you know... I did it.

When I write a great paper because my teacher told me to do it, I still get credit. Interestingly enough, I find the teacher/student dynamic similiar to d/s. They have what I want and I've got to jump through all their bloody hoops to get it.


As already stated, both "Master" and "slave", as used in this thread, are with regards to previously stated definitions; this concerns the stated dynamic.  This said, statements concerning what a slave does or does not do refers to slaves within this dynamic, as made apparent in defining "slave" as a slave in this dynamic.

If you still find it difficult to understand that the statements in question are concerning slaves within this dynamic, and not any particular individual someone else might call a "slave", you are free to message me in private where I may attempt to make it clear.


Honestly, at this point the only thing that keeps me interested is your opinion that those who disagree just don't understand.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:43:40 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Honestly, at this point the only thing that keeps me interested is your opinion that those who disagree just don't understand.
 


I'm rather certain I've answered every contrary point made with a logical counter.

Such as, in your previous post, it seemed you were saying I had no right to make a statement concerning the action of all slaves.  You were misunderstanding, for I wasn't making a statement concerning all "slaves", but for all slaves within the dynamic this thread is based upon.  If I'm mistaken, you are welcome to point it out.

At this point, I feel I must be blunt in confessing that I feel your intentions are argumentative as opposed to logical.  Should I be in error, you are free to make a case, though I'm disinterested in engaging in internet drama.


Edit:  Wording.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/6/2007 8:47:28 PM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 8:49:15 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Honestly, at this point the only thing that keeps me interested is your opinion that those who disagree just don't understand.



Agree with what?  I'm rather certain I've answered every contrary point made with a logical counter.

Such as, in your previous post, it seemed you were saying I had no right to make a statement concerning the action of all slaves.  You were misunderstanding, for I wasn't making a statement concerning all "slaves", but for all slaves within the dynamic this thread is based upon.

If I'm mistaken, you are welcome to point it out.  At this point, I feel I must be blunt in confessing that I feel your views are argumentative as opposed to logical.  Should I be in error, you are free to make a case, though I'm disinterested in engaging in internet drama.


Let us view this from an entirely academic point of view. You presented a thesis as to the behavior and defination of master/slave. You "discovered it". It's being rebutted, by many different people. Your OP defined master/slave, dom/sub, yadda yadda. People are disagreeing with you. I'm one of them, in my own snarky wonderful way. Tell you what, you stop fussing about how I phrase my points and I won't start fussing about yours? Though to tell the truth, I won't care either way.

And yes, I do continue to be amused by the statement you made that was to the effect of "only one person understands - that is why only person agrees".

Edited to Add: Signing off this thread. I don't think you posted this for discussion and learning.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 5/6/2007 8:50:57 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 9:02:58 PM   
CuriousLord


Posts: 3911
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Let us view this from an entirely academic point of view. You presented a thesis as to the behavior and defination of master/slave. You "discovered it". It's being rebutted, by many different people. Your OP defined master/slave, dom/sub, yadda yadda. People are disagreeing with you. I'm one of them, in my own snarky wonderful way. Tell you what, you stop fussing about how I phrase my points and I won't start fussing about yours? Though to tell the truth, I won't care either way.


Then perhaps you misunderstand my point about viewpoints?

This is my view of a Master/slave vs. Dom/sub.  Hence constantly used "this dynamic".  There are other views of "Master/slave" and "Dom/sub".  This said, my view is accurate with regards to what I mean by it, as other views are accurate to what they mean by it, as denoted in the footnote of the orginial post.

I am regretful if you misunderstood and read this as, "This is the only way it may be done."  This is not my contention, nor has it ever been.  I attempted to be clear in stating this.

As for the mentioned rebutals, all have, themselves, been rebuted.  Most were simply resolved in clarifying misunderstanding, as I hope this does for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
And yes, I do continue to be amused by the statement you made that was to the effect of "only one person understands - that is why only person agrees".

Edited to Add: Signing off this thread. I don't think you posted this for discussion and learning.


This disregard for the truth and finding them, coupled with your "snarky wonderful way", is why I feel you may be more interested in internet drama than anything else.  To this end, I would agree that your deperature is for the best.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Masterhood - 5/6/2007 9:51:18 PM   
farieanne


Posts: 65
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		CuriousLord Sir,
With my Masters permission. After discussing this thread with Him and reading together the OP and many of the responses Wwe just wanted to extend to You Oour support. First of all Wwe understand and agree with You about Your idea and definition of the dynamic and believe Oours to be very much the same. Second Wwe understood from the OP that You were stating YOUR definition and NOT the be all end all definition of Master/slave versus Dom/sub dynamics and that You were just expressing Your joy and pride in Your relationship. There are other couples, Uus included, that live a dynamic similar to the one You describe, believe in it, support it, and You.
i think Ppeople got their feathers ruffled because they misunderstood thinking You were stating there was only one way and that one dynamic was better than the other. Though if Your OP is read without defenses people will realize that You never said this or anything close and stated very clearly It was Your definition of the difference between the two dynamics and no where did you say that one was any better than the other.
 
Master Peter and His
 
"A woman will always sacrifice herself if you give her the opportunity. It is her favourite form of self-indulgence.” - William Somerset Maugham

(in reply to CuriousLord)
Profile   Post #: 120
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