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You don't experience pain as pleasure, you experience it as agony and use it to deal with your emotional issues. Tell me what the difference is between you and someone who cuts. 

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ORIGINAL: leadership527
No. A theory may or may not explain how it can be one way for some people and another way for other people but it does not allow it. What allows it to be about sex for some people and not about sex for others is that... drum roll please... for some people it's all about sex and for others it is not. I think I'll lean on actual reality here rather than theoretical logic chains.

This whole thread is akin to someone who lives in the UK telling me, "I see it's raining there right now." So I look out the window and it's sunny and pleasant with not a cloud in the sky and say, "No, actually it's not." Then the UK person tells me, "Yes it is. I saw a weather report just a moment ago." The fact that so many people cannot see how ludicrous that is would be astonishing to me if this wasn't the internet. Honestly, if that happened to you, what would you think about the other person? For me, the phrase, "Totally disconnected with reality" comes to mind.

Theories do not refute reality. Reality refutes theories. <insert fancy latin here to sound smart>

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Does anyone on this thread have a masters or PHD in either anthropology or sociology and what do they think of the questions/answers presented here?

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
I do not agree Jeff.  I think its like the person in the UK saying it is raining. You saying it is not. Me saying that all weather depends on the sun, and the person in the UK saying that I am wrong because it is raining.

Without the sun, there is no weather. Without sex, there is no BDSM. Individuals higher motivations may vary widely, but under the hood, it is the same chemical cocktails at work.

Ed

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And we might just find that our only disagreement is one of extent. I would argue that for me personally, "sex" is certainly not always a primary driver in terms of my relationships, even my d/s ones. Sure it is a LOT of the time, make no bones about it.

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
Without the sun, there is no weather. Without sex, there is no BDSM. Individuals higher motivations may vary widely, but under the hood, it is the same chemical cocktails at work.

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So, you would discount any and all dynamics that include the "D" for discipline that are service or protocol based because there is no sex involved?

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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So tell me is it really about sex for most people?

Let's talk less theory and talk about real life BDSM practices in real life clubs and why they occur, do they occur for purely sexual needs?

Nobody can say if it is so for "most" people but certainly it is so for many but not for all. For example, one couple at the local lifestyle club will use caging and bondage and some breath play to warm up for intense passionate sex while another Dom is focused on sending a recently met sub into subspace and he already had great sex at home with his wife earlier and has that need already fulfilled. Yet another Dom spends two hours carefully placing small needles into an artistically self designed pattern into a girl and then spends the rest of the evening parading her around and taking pictures.

So, in short we see BDSM practices practiced in a typical lifestyle club on a Saturday night to fulfill many different human needs for different people "in the lifestyle" and I will Maslow's hierarchic pyramid of needs to illustrate and relate these different BDSM practices as they are used to fulfill human needs other than sexual.

On this typical night at the local lifestyle club we will see:

1) The couple involved in caging and breath play is doing so as a preceptor to passionate public sex fulfilling the base human need for sex using a scene of their making.

2) For the second couple, their BDSM practice includes no sex but rather fulfills the need for self-actualization with the the Dom working very hard on a scene to send the girl into subspace as his goal or "mark" or baseline measurement for excellence in being a Dom.

3) For the third couple, there is no scene and their actions include no sex but instead is a practice that fulfills the need for Self Esteem and recognition for the Dom and sub who are into artistic needle play.

So, while you in your OP admittedly use BDSM for "sexual magic" or to fulfill a base human need there are many others who use BDSM practices to meet completely different human needs with no sex or sex substitution activities involved before or after the scene.

Well wishes,
Arturas

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If sexless BDSM exists anywhere, it is not at a BDSM club.

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
Oh please. When will everyone figure out that in this context, sex does not mean fucking?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
I do not agree Jeff.  I think its like the person in the UK saying it is raining. You saying it is not. Me saying that all weather depends on the sun, and the person in the UK saying that I am wrong because it is raining.

Without the sun, there is no weather. Without sex, there is no BDSM. Individuals higher motivations may vary widely, but under the hood, it is the same chemical cocktails at work.

Ed

So, you would discount any and all dynamics that include the "D" for discipline that are service or protocol based because there is no sex involved?

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
In a public performance, there are probably dozens of geeky guys watching with their hands down their trousers, and someone taking photographs so millions more can get off at home. If sexless BDSM exists anywhere, it is not at a BDSM club. 

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
In a public performance, there are probably dozens of geeky guys watching with their hands down their trousers, and someone taking photographs so millions more can get off at home. If sexless BDSM exists anywhere, it is not at a BDSM club. 

What kind of clubs do you attend that allow photography without the consent of the participants to be plastered on the fucking web?  You might want to choose another if that is their policy.

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ORIGINAL: IceDemeter
Starting from this premise, would you agree that procreation itself would be a secondary driver? In a pack species, many animals do not procreate at all, as their places in the hierarchy are designed for the survival of the pack as a whole, without adding their own genes to the mix.

What is your opinion on what conscious thought adds to the mix? Do you feel that it can over-ride biological imperatives or is it merely a "surface" thing?

If you feel that it can over-ride biological imperatives at any time, do you think that individuals are correct in their judgement of their own motivations for any activity, whether they judge the motivation to be thought or a biological driver?

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ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
Consider, jumping into a swollen river to save a child. Is that an rational mental decision?

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While your participants in the last two performance may never have had a single sexual thought, it is still all about sex.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

Actually there is a woman who does work or is studying in this field, I recall her mentioning it in a thread down in P&R. But damned if I can remember exactly who it was...I can see her avatar in my mind's eye, but can't attach a name to it.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527
I certainly agree that at some level of abstraction it is possible to reduce all of life -- any life, not simply human -- down to procreation. But why stop there? Why not say something more expansive like, "Well, I believe in a causality so really it's all because that's how the energy of the big bang happened to form." I'm sure that if I was Stephen Hawkings I could dial out the zoom factor at least a few more levels from that. I could also opt to zoom in, eg: "Well, down at the quantum level it's all random so Carol and I do what we do because that's how the quantum dice rolled today."

Seriously though, I somehow doubt "Because that's how the cookie crumbled in the big bang" is a useful answer to the OP's question.

I am curious though, when you say "BDSM" are you referring to the whips & chains part or do you also count D/s as "BDSM"? My "domination" of Carol (note the quotes) is very much akin to managing a corporation of 2. It has no more sexual content than that. We do not [barely] do the "whips & chains" part. I can easily see how I would conclude that FOR ME, if what I was looking at was "whips & chains" then yes, it would all be about sex. I still wouldn't conclude that about the larger sample set without a well funded and executed study that was peer reviewed.