RE: Is It Really All About Sex?

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:39:52 PM

Arpig

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quote:

You might be thinking of Juliaoceania. She's working on her Masters in Anthropology. She's been offline for awhile which is too bad. I'd enjoy learning her views on this topic.

THAT'S THE ONE!!

I guess now that's classes are out she's too busy fucking to post.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:39:54 PM

leadership527

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@LadyPact
So, you would discount any and all dynamics that include the "D" for discipline that are service or protocol based because there is no sex involved?
Or, couples like Carol and I who had a wonderful sex life before the collaring and have a wonderful sex life after the collaring so don't really see that as associated with collaring her. We have sex because that, for us, is a part of a vibrant, healthy relationship. I manage that sex because I manage the whole enchilada and sex is a part of it. But to suggest that this was a primary motivator gets on to LaT's comment.

@LaT
I find it interesting that so many people get so passionate about arguing what 'it is' for other people. People that they are seriously clueless about. It's like telling them they wad instead of fold when they have never been in the person's house, let alone present in the bathroom with them to know whether they actually wad or fold.
Well yes, that's how I saw it originally. Now I'm thinking this is more along the lines of the random philosophical musings that are very popular among kinksters. In that vein, who can argue? The line between philosophy and religion is paper thin. People are expressing belief systems here that have nothing to do with facts.

Now what I'm intrigued with is the actual belief systems themselves. For instance, I'm struggling to wrap my head around anyone who would willingly choose to reduce all of human existence down to fucking or preparing for fucking. I can only conclude that that is a person who is WAY more focused on sexuality than I am. I don't think the people holding that view are either right or wrong. I suspect they are correct within the mental framework they are working from. I also think that the inability to view any framework but one's own is a very, very limiting factor. In the end, it is one true wayism.

Obviously, you're doing it wrong :)

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:41:24 PM

Fetters4U

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetters4U
Consider, jumping into a swollen river to save a child. Is that an rational mental decision?

I would only jump into a river to save a child if I thought it would get me laid.

FUCK!

Oh curses Fetters4U, my whole argument has been defeated by your trickery.

;-)

I knew it would work. ROFL!!

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:42:15 PM

Arpig

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quote:

"even though there was no smoke there was fire".

Propane.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:42:26 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

That's a wonderful bit of writing there Bita, but essentially meaningless.

I'll go erase it.. I think I still have time and I'll just put it in my journal. I thought it was on topic and had expressed it was only meant to satify myself in answer to the OP. Obviously, I was wrong and I apologize.

There is little worse for an author to hear than that the words they share are meaningless even if they are wonderful.

I'm a little hurt right now actually but such is life.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:49:00 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

There is little worse for an author to hear than that the words they share are meaningless even if they are wonderful.

I'm a little hurt right now actually but such is life.

Meaningless in one person's opinion does not equate meaningless to all.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:49:53 PM

Arturas

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quote:

In a public performance, there are probably dozens of geeky guys watching with their hands down their trousers, and someone taking photographs so millions more can get off at home. If sexless BDSM exists anywhere, it is not at a BDSM club.

Yes. While watching a public performance there might be geeky and non-geeky guys with their hands down their trousers and even a few women next to them with hands down those same trousers but this in no way supports a position that BDSM is really all about sex. It only supports the common knowledge that sex occurs in BDSM clubs.

I've seen sexless scenes in a BDSM club more times than the other way around. Sex is not the same as power and self-realization is what motivates some Doms and submissives. It sometimes happens the submissive later would be receptive after landing but this is not always the case or always the Dom's motivation.

I've never seen or known of a club that allows photographs except on special nights specifically for that. That's not to say there is not someone stealing the shots under cover of a dark corner of the club but that also does not support the position that BDSM clubs are all about sex.

Well wishes,
Arturas

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:51:18 PM

Fetters4U

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This has been a great discussion. I hope everyone took my comments in the generous, open-minded manner they were meant. I have learned a lot today. I love you all (probably for sexual reasons), but I am off on vacation for the weekend (also for sexual reasons). Please try not to kill each other while I am gone.

Ed

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 12:59:04 PM

Fetters4U

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That seems odd, I've been to some rather big BDSM events in Europe and the US, and anybody filming without permission would have gotten the boot ASAP, it's usually taken so seriously that you can't use your cell phone camera even for a private shot, by entering the venue you agree to the rules, it's for pretty good reasons because I wouldn't go to a club that doesn't take privacy seriously and nor would anybody I know.

And yet the photographs exist on blogs virtually everywhere. I think I saw a few in the picture galleries here. Damn sneaky, those humans.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 1:05:31 PM

Arpig

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quote:

I can only conclude that that is a person who is WAY more focused on sexuality than I am.

Or simply more in tune with reality than you are.

It's obvious to me, that pretty much no matter what is being discussed or proposed, you will be insistent that it doesn't apply to you and Carol, even to the point of making contradictory statements (as shown by Heather's rather brilliant post and your laughably petulant reply, both now apparently deleted...how unfortunate).

One of the most persuasive arguments I have seen on this thread to support the "it is about sex" side is the fact that you oppose it so vehemenantly. If you are so determined that it isn't so, then the odds are that it probably actually is.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 1:11:26 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Meaningless in one person's opinion does not equate meaningless to all.

Oh, I agree.. but they are meaningless to the demographic I had hope to inspire. Arpig is part of that demographic. The rest of the people on that side, I have not engaged in much discourse with them so I hold his opinion with more weight than I would one of the others.

I have come to respect Arpig over the years and I have come to expect his direct questions and I already know he puts stock in what I write because we've had wonderful conversations in other forums. He knows that when he asks a question of me that I put a lot of thought and consideration into my answer and I don't believe he would willfully cut off something I had to say as meaningless unless he truly meant it and believed it.

When he agrees with me, he is quick to say so. When he changes a view or an opinion or forms a new idea because of something I've written.. he is quick to point that out as well. He asks probing questions which cause me to think.. I trust his judgement.

It's his 'side' if you will that I had hoped to capture.. and I failed in that. I didn't discard what I wrote.. I just took them out of the venue where they were not going to have the meaning I had hoped to convey.

The slight hurt I felt was because he was so total in his dismissal and made it blanket rather than personal and offered zero feedback on 'why' it was meaningless so that I could have, in turn, viewed what I had written from his standpoint. He left me with nothing, so I have no way to learn more.

edited to clarify a thought.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 8/4/2011 1:54:19 PM >

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 1:13:26 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
One of the most persuasive arguments I have seen on this thread to support the "it is about sex" side is the fact that you oppose it so vehemenantly. If you are so determined that it isn't so, then the odds are that it probably actually is.

So wait... to deconstruct that argument...

You believe X is true for Jeff because Jeff says X is not true?

OK. I can understand that. Having come to the conclusion that I either lack so much self-awareness that I don't even know my own emotional responses to my daily life or that I'm an outright liar, you find anything I say to lack credibility. That is certainly one possible view and yours to hold as you see fit. That viewpoint, though, pretty much puts an end to all useful communication between us, doesn't it?

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 1:29:13 PM

Arpig

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Not exactly, it's more a case that, I'm of the opinion that you will say almost anything to make sure that you can present yourself and your relationship with Carol as in all ways unique. So if you say it isn't about sex for you, then that's a pretty good indicator that you think it is for everybody else.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:13:57 PM

WinsomeDefiance

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I don't really know why people want to define their actions by the very lowest common denominator. Sure, our biological imperative is to survive and to procreate, but that isn't the sum total of who any one person is.

We are too self-destructive a species as a whole, for there to not be the possibility that there is more to us than a single source coding driving our EVERY executable action toward ONLY our biological imperative.

I don't know, maybe we as an organism were intended to only have one single source coding driving our actions - but we picked up a virus somewhere. I find that thought amusing, and scary - that we are all just a bunch of biological machines running off a virus infected programming that is leading us toward our own destruction. Maybe God's name is Norton McAfee, and we are all due for an upgrade. Until then, NO, not everything I do, regarding BDSM, is all about sex.

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:29:33 PM

NuevaVida

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Bits, I understand. Hopefully you'll get the meat and potatoes behind the statement made.

Winsome I loved your virus theory! Thanks for the afternoon chuckle

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:31:21 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

Looking at the "night follows day" and the response of "day follows night"

Ummm...I was cracking a joke

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:34:29 PM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fetters4U

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
That seems odd, I've been to some rather big BDSM events in Europe and the US, and anybody filming without permission would have gotten the boot ASAP, it's usually taken so seriously that you can't use your cell phone camera even for a private shot, by entering the venue you agree to the rules, it's for pretty good reasons because I wouldn't go to a club that doesn't take privacy seriously and nor would anybody I know.

And yet the photographs exist on blogs virtually everywhere. I think I saw a few in the picture galleries here. Damn sneaky, those humans.

Not in the places I frequent, but those clubs usually require membership and they aren't shy about ejecting people breaching the rules. It pays to be a bit selective which places one frequents....

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:34:32 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

Actually there is a woman who does work or is studying in this field, I recall her mentioning it in a thread down in P&R. But damned if I can remember exactly who it was...I can see her avatar in my mind's eye, but can't attach a name to it.

juliaoceania (SP?)

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:36:32 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

That's a wonderful bit of writing there Bita, but essentially meaningless.

I thought a lot about this, Arpig. You are right, it is meaningless. The 'end' result of it all is that we are bound for extinction. That's the final destination for humanity and all the critters and plant life on this little ball of dirt we call Earth. If our purpose in being born is to pass along our DNA so as to continue to live.. we will, in the end, fail.

Might as well take death off that hard limit list, kiddies.. that's a line you can draw but nature is going to erase for you whether you consent or not.

Me, I'm going to just enjoy the journey and not worry about the destination. Sometimes that's going to include sex, sometimes it's not but hopefully it will be a hell of a ride until I take my dust nap or my atoms are scattered among the stars.

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He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Is It Really All About Sex? - 8/4/2011 2:46:32 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Bits, I understand. Hopefully you'll get the meat and potatoes behind the statement made.

I did and do and that's why I put it where I put it, so it wouldn't be lost if anyone wants to take a peek at it. After all, I wouldn't have written it if I didn't believe it myself.