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RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/24/2017 6:15:07 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: BoscoX


One lone historical figure, who was a Muslim and who probably learned his trade from Ottoman Muslims - Muslims, who still practice the same sort of terrorism that Dracula did


Even your anecdotal fallacies fails you


Anyone who takes the time to read the cite you posted will notice immediately that you are a liar. Not that this is something that would surprise anyone familiar with your posting history.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/24/2017 6:19:43 AM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX
One lone historical figure, who saved Eurasia from being annexed into the Ottoman empire

FIFY (yet again).

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 2:35:59 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Second point: Muslims do not go door to door pestering people.


That's true.

But Jehovah Witnesses does that???


Right, instead Muslims put poles up the rectums of non-believers until they come out of their mouths then they plant them along highways as terroristic warnings to anyone thinking of denying Allah

Things like that

Actually, it was the other way around.
Vlad Tepes (a Christian) had poles shoved the recti of quite a large number of Muslims as he stopped the Ottoman invasion of modern day Romania.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler


One lone historical figure, who was a Muslim and who probably learned his trade from Ottoman Muslims - Muslims, who still practice the same sort of terrorism that Dracula did

quote:

In 1442, Vlad III and his younger brother, Radu, were handed over to Sultan Murad II, then-ruler of the Ottoman Empire. The young men were held hostage to ensure their father, ruler of the principality of Wallachia, remained loyal to the Ottomans during their ongoing war with Hungary.

During their captivity, Vlad and his brother were tutored in science, philosophy and the arts. They were also allegedly schooled in the arts of war, receiving lessons in both horsemanship and swordsmanship from their Ottoman captors, according to Radu Florescu and Raymond McNally, former professors of history at Boston College, who wrote several books about Vlad III.

Some historians have argued that Vlad also learned the art of impalement during his time as a hostage, but that can’t be proven, according to Florin Curta, a professor of medieval history and archaeology at the University of Florida. The Ottomans didn't invent impalement, and there's no way of knowing whether Vlad saw them deploy this gruesome punishment on their prisoners, Curta told Live Science. [Busted: Medieval Torture's 10 Biggest Myths]

Regardless of what he learned from his captors, Vlad didn't take kindly to being held prisoner. On the contrary, his kid brother adjusted well to captivity, forging a friendship with the Sultan's son, Mehmet II, and eventually converting to Islam.

But Vlad felt little more than enmity for his captors, according to Elizabeth Miller, a research historian and professor emeritus at Memorial University of Newfoundland in Canada. This enmity may have been his motivation for siding with the Hungarians against the Ottomans when he eventually became ruler of Wallachia in 1448, Miller told Live Science.

Vlad the terrorist

Vlad's cruelty is well documented in historical texts, but what often goes overlooked is how he combined this cruelty with cunning to terrorize his enemies.

For example, his preferred method of execution, impalement, wasn't just a sadistic way to get rid of his opponents; it was also a good way to scare them away, according to Curta.

In 1462, Mehmet II (at the time, the Ottoman sultan), invaded Wallachia. When he arrived at the capital city of Târgoviște, he found it deserted. The rotting remains of Ottoman prisoners of war, each impaled on a spike, were the only soldiers there to greet him. Mehmet didn't retreat right then and there, but he certainly didn't gain any headway, Curta noted



Even your anecdotal fallacies fails you

If you cold learn to fucking read, you'd see that you just posted something that doesn't support your position. Instead, it supports the opposition.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to BoscoX)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 7:22:11 PM   
longwayhome


Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/russia-supreme-court-bans-jehovahs-witnesses-170533124.html

It never cease to amaze me that my country and NOW, Russia too, have decided that Jehovah Witnesses are more dangerous than Muslims.

What universe is this?

Jehovah Witnesses barely committed any terrorist act and they get banned. A whole Christian Religion!

Yet, nobody is taking any action on Islam.


An intolerant and dictatorial regime bans the Jehovah's Witnesses. Although I think that some of their beliefs are based on a fairly unique reading of the Bible, this is indeed a sad and worrying reflection on present day Russia, a country that claims to be a pluralist democracy.

But your take home message from this and what is really worrying you here is that "nobody is taking any action on Islam"?

What do you mean no action? There is a extensive action being taken against Islamic terrorists and foreign countries are exterminating Muslims in their own countries, partly to tackle such groups. Many Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Iraq are losing many devout Muslims who are fighting against violent Islamic groups threatening their people and governments.

Rather than being concerned that a religious community is being persecuted in this way, you are more concerned that Islam isn't being banned.

Why would this be better than banning Jehovah's Witnesses and why would it be effective in tackling the minority of Muslims who are terrorists?

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 7:27:04 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
What do you mean no action? There is a extensive action being taken against Islamic terrorists and foreign countries are exterminating Muslims in their own countries, partly to tackle such groups. Many Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Iraq are losing many devout Muslims who are fighting against violent Islamic groups threatening their people and governments.

Rather than being concerned that a religious community is being persecuted in this way, you are more concerned that Islam isn't being banned.

Why would this be better than banning Jehovah's Witnesses and why would it be effective in tackling the minority of Muslims who are terrorists?


There are ZERO Jehovah's Witnesses that are terrorists but, it is estimated that that 16% of the 1.6billion Muslims have chosen to Follow the Terrorism route as prescribed by their religion.

That's why I am wondering why are Jehovah Witnesses treated as the more dangerous Religion than Islam? Has Jehovah Witnesses killed mass amount of people intentionally?

Yes Muslims do kill Muslims. Because Islam is not Christianity where it's religious text is filled with allegory and Islam is about literal interpretation. So they are murdering Muslims who are perverting Islam by not practicing it's literal translation. And those Muslims who are desperately trying to find some new age allegorised interpretations to make their religion peaceful, should seriously just consider not being a Muslim anymore and switch religions. Because they are so desperate now, they wanna say, they don't want to refer to the Hadith for interpretation help anymore.

As the Hadiths supports all the terrorists interpretations. But unlike the Bible. The Quran is Allah's word through Muhammad. The Hadith is like an authentic history book, that gives context to Quran verses and is certified as genuine and accurate as the Quran. That Muslims are suppose to use it to understand the actual interpretation.

When you read the Hadiths. That's where all this nonsense come from! Like Female Genital Mutilation being COMPULSORY by Muhammad, that's the Hadith.

And I am not feeling for any Muslims who got killed in war, because ANYBODY who supports a religion that mutilate female babies deserves to die. That's just inhuman!

I bet Jehovah Witnesses don't have FGM in their religion!


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/25/2017 7:31:44 PM >

(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 8:09:54 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
...
So if the JWs can intrude upon private residences and private lives, that is "freedom", as you take it?

Yes it is.


Making yourself an ass to the households in your community and intruding on their daily life is "freedom."- - -

Got it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Well then thousands of others can knock on your door 24/7/365 and intrude upon your own freedom with whatever wacko notions of theirs.


quote:

Yes they can.


No they can't.

Neighborhoods can make their own rules if not abridging municipal rules, if not abridging state laws, etc.

Having a 2 mile driveway (as you claim) means you can make some of your own rules within that point, but not beyond. Not by yourself, not by your own notions. That's why you have a two mile driveway, and congratulations.

If you don't like my condo association and my neighborhood and my city making rules and laws against societal pestilence such as the JWs and innumerable others, then see what you can do about it from your 2 mile driveway 10-15 states away.
Idiot.

The separation goes both ways. ~Figure it out~.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Unless you consider it a restriction on their freedom to not be able to do so.

quote:

Yes I do.


Congratulations.

The Muslims, and People for Right Way of Washing Socks, and Fuller Brush, and Amway, and People for the Protection of Morals and Scruples, and the Bahá'í, and Society of People Wanting Better Brushes With Witch to Wash Lemur Noses, and The Association of Lemur Farmers will be at your door starting 7:00 A.M tomorrow. Or maybe 4:00 A.M.

And many days thereafter.

Freedom!




< Message edited by Edwird -- 4/25/2017 8:56:01 PM >

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 9:25:16 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
Lest it escaped notice, as mundane as the process might seem to be to some, a mother or a father or a mother and a father bringing a new spirit into the world is the most sacred thing I could imagine.

Tons of brats come into the world every day, I know full well. And too many of us turn out not as well as originally hoped, I know.

But it is the process that matters. It might vary greatly from one family or one country or one society to another, but there is a process in place for that community.

I'm not seeing where a mom or dad in middle of changing diaper of the infant/toddler or reading a story to the 4-5 yr. benefits by having the doorbell rung by (JW) people preaching Armageddon, tell me if I'm wrong.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 10:56:56 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
I get a general feeling of: "If only Russia were a free-society; more like us"?

Empire Building/Regime change? Is that the general over-tone?Michael

Free-society? What's a free-society? It is interesting to note that in the US and Canada's free-societies during WWII, at the same time Hitler was throwing JWs in concentration camps in Germany for their resistance, the US and Canada were throwing JWs in prison and in some cases they were lynched.


WW II? 77 years ago? The US did much worse than that 150 years ago, the Brits and the French did much worse than that 300 and 500 and 1,000 years ago. The Mesopotamians . . .

Is there an expiration date on all this? "It happened then, so we are not free now," is that it?

Does this mean people who practiced slavery 2-3,000 years ago are not allowed in the discussion of slavery anymore, now or forever?

Don't waste your time on that, though.

I think -creditable sources- as relating of instances of the US and Canada's lynching JWs during WW II would be much more interesting.

quote:

So I have come to realize that Free is a relative term and that no person or society can be totally free but by comparison can be freer in one situation than another or more in one way than another.
;-)


Did you have a good nap? So you just now learned about relative freedom the same way people thousands of years ago did?

Oh, and as for the "it's part of their religion to intrude upon people in the middle of being a family and interrupt important household affairs" as being "part of their religion, so to suppress the annoyance and intrusion would mean suppressing their religion," . . .

Just overflowing with original thought today, aren't you?

I absolutely vote for JWs or any other idiot interrupting my or any family's lives with their lunacy being taken away in cuffs on second offence and charged and convicted of misdemeanor and a stiff fine for doing so.

Maybe you missed it, but the US and Canada and most any country have laws that do not accommodate any and every wacko religious notion.

But any country not ruled by religion is not free, we get it. Go join Real uno, now.


Is there an expiration date on all this?

Yep, as soon as wackos like you stop ranting about how it's okay to arrest people for just interrupting their all important life.

Yes, take away their freedom because you've been inconvenienced.

Yes, that's true meaning of freedom, to be free to take freedom away from others.

It's too bad you still haven't "learned about relative freedom the same way people thousands of years ago did".



and thats different from here how? we have a democracy, 50.1% shitting all over 49.9% voted on by the legislatures and congress NOT YOU and then the public fighting over what they did after the fact when they are stuck with it IS BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM FFS!

Not each to the own, live and let live, like in an anarchy, nope my or the hiway democracy at each others throats rules the day. I cant think of a better way to live can you? Seruiously what can be more free than da'mobcracy?






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/25/2017 11:30:23 PM   
longwayhome


Posts: 1035
Joined: 1/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
What do you mean no action? There is a extensive action being taken against Islamic terrorists and foreign countries are exterminating Muslims in their own countries, partly to tackle such groups. Many Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Iraq are losing many devout Muslims who are fighting against violent Islamic groups threatening their people and governments.

Rather than being concerned that a religious community is being persecuted in this way, you are more concerned that Islam isn't being banned.

Why would this be better than banning Jehovah's Witnesses and why would it be effective in tackling the minority of Muslims who are terrorists?


There are ZERO Jehovah's Witnesses that are terrorists but, it is estimated that that 16% of the 1.6billion Muslims have chosen to Follow the Terrorism route as prescribed by their religion.

That's why I am wondering why are Jehovah Witnesses treated as the more dangerous Religion than Islam? Has Jehovah Witnesses killed mass amount of people intentionally?

Yes Muslims do kill Muslims. Because Islam is not Christianity where it's religious text is filled with allegory and Islam is about literal interpretation. So they are murdering Muslims who are perverting Islam by not practicing it's literal translation. And those Muslims who are desperately trying to find some new age allegorised interpretations to make their religion peaceful, should seriously just consider not being a Muslim anymore and switch religions. Because they are so desperate now, they wanna say, they don't want to refer to the Hadith for interpretation help anymore.

As the Hadiths supports all the terrorists interpretations. But unlike the Bible. The Quran is Allah's word through Muhammad. The Hadith is like an authentic history book, that gives context to Quran verses and is certified as genuine and accurate as the Quran. That Muslims are suppose to use it to understand the actual interpretation.

When you read the Hadiths. That's where all this nonsense come from! Like Female Genital Mutilation being COMPULSORY by Muhammad, that's the Hadith.

And I am not feeling for any Muslims who got killed in war, because ANYBODY who supports a religion that mutilate female babies deserves to die. That's just inhuman!

I bet Jehovah Witnesses don't have FGM in their religion!



In making such firm distinctions between Islam and Christianity you completely miss all the passages in the Old Testament in particular which can and have been used as justifications for violence. The Bible has also been used to persecute homosexuals, excuse violence against women and to justify war against unbelievers.

Do you really have no historical or international perspective and think that Muslims are the only people that have used their religion as the justification for violence against people from other religions or people from the same religion who do not practice in the same way they do?

Blaming the specific teachings of Islam for this more than other religions is precisely to believe anti-Muslim propaganda, as violence carried out in the name of other religions is also justified in great detail by those inciting it.

Christianity, Hinduism and even Buddhism have been used a justifications for terrorism, communal violence with monks and religious leaders involved in the incitement, explained by religious interpretations. Hinduism although famous for pacifists such as Gandhi also describes and justifies the need for violence and war, just as Islam does.

Just to stick with some of the best known or recent examples: Buddhist violence against Muslims in Myanmar and Sir Lanka promoted by monks, communal violence against Muslims by Hindus in India, violence and persecution between Hindu sects in India, Christian concepts of just war being used to justify wars even in the twentieth century, the Inquisition, European violent colonisation of "heathen" countries using Christianity as a method for subjugation, a tool for civilisation and a justification for why indigenous people's lives mattered less (it's always useful to read what European colonists said themselves about the civilising power of Christianity before you dismiss its role in the number of people who died), attempts by Christians at religious genocide in the former Yugoslavia, inter-communal violence in Northern Ireland . The list goes on. I could go back further and also quote Cromwell in the UK, the Spanish Conquistadors and the Crusades.

As a Christian, or at the very least having been brought up in a home with church going parents, I find myself thinking that the violence carried out by Christians tend to be cases of spurious religious justifications for political or economic violence. For me Christianity should be about peace and love for your fellow human. but not all people see things that way. In other words violent people use convenient interpretations of the Bible to achieve non-religious means.

But that is exactly what "moderate" Muslims say about Islamic extremists. Islamic terrorists and organisations like IS have a skewed interpretation of Islam, want to force others to become Muslims to impose power with the justification of civilising them and saving them from themselves (sounds like European colonial violence) when their aims are actually political, ethnic or economic.

Islamic terrorists are violent people with political aims using religion as a justification. Pointing the finger at millions of Muslims is just blind prejudice.

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 3:31:32 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
the US and Canada were throwing JWs in prison and in some cases they were lynched.


first I have heard of such a thing to the extent you are implying it occurred, especially when it's linked to what hitler did.



I was going to quote much of this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minersville_School_District_v._Gobitis but decided it would be better for someone to read it for themself in context.

It's interesting that they were being called Nazis in the US at the same time actual Nazis were putting them in Concentration camps in Germany.

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 3:38:30 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
...
I bet Jehovah Witnesses don't have FGM in their religion!

No they don't and probably would be aghast that they were even mentioned in the same sentence.
;-)

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 3:54:01 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
...
So if the JWs can intrude upon private residences and private lives, that is "freedom", as you take it?

Yes it is.


Making yourself an ass to the households in your community and intruding on their daily life is "freedom."- - -

Got it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Well then thousands of others can knock on your door 24/7/365 and intrude upon your own freedom with whatever wacko notions of theirs.


quote:

Yes they can.


No they can't.

Neighborhoods can make their own rules if not abridging municipal rules, if not abridging state laws, etc.

Having a 2 mile driveway (as you claim) means you can make some of your own rules within that point, but not beyond. Not by yourself, not by your own notions. That's why you have a two mile driveway, and congratulations.

If you don't like my condo association and my neighborhood and my city making rules and laws against societal pestilence such as the JWs and innumerable others, then see what you can do about it from your 2 mile driveway 10-15 states away.
Idiot.

The separation goes both ways. ~Figure it out~.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Unless you consider it a restriction on their freedom to not be able to do so.

quote:

Yes I do.


Congratulations.

The Muslims, and People for Right Way of Washing Socks, and Fuller Brush, and Amway, and People for the Protection of Morals and Scruples, and the Bahá'í, and Society of People Wanting Better Brushes With Witch to Wash Lemur Noses, and The Association of Lemur Farmers will be at your door starting 7:00 A.M tomorrow. Or maybe 4:00 A.M.

And many days thereafter.

Freedom!

You've really thought this out haven't you?

As long as everyone does as you think and say they are "free" to do anything they want.

But what happens if it is not you that sets the standard for everyone else but someone else?

What if they decide that something important in your life and you consider a right is proscribed?

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 4:04:43 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

Lest it escaped notice, as mundane as the process might seem to be to some, a mother or a father or a mother and a father bringing a new spirit into the world is the most sacred thing I could imagine.

Tons of brats come into the world every day, I know full well. And too many of us turn out not as well as originally hoped, I know.

But it is the process that matters. It might vary greatly from one family or one country or one society to another, but there is a process in place for that community.

I'm not seeing where a mom or dad in middle of changing diaper of the infant/toddler or reading a story to the 4-5 yr. benefits by having the doorbell rung by (JW) people preaching Armageddon, tell me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.

Just because you don't see a benefit from it does not mean that others don't.

In fact millions have found benefits in it and you want to deprive others of those benefits because you personally don't like it.

Yep, sounds like Freedom to me.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 4:34:00 AM   
Milesnmiles


Posts: 1349
Joined: 12/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
What do you mean no action? There is a extensive action being taken against Islamic terrorists and foreign countries are exterminating Muslims in their own countries, partly to tackle such groups. Many Muslim countries such as Pakistan and Iraq are losing many devout Muslims who are fighting against violent Islamic groups threatening their people and governments.

Rather than being concerned that a religious community is being persecuted in this way, you are more concerned that Islam isn't being banned.

Why would this be better than banning Jehovah's Witnesses and why would it be effective in tackling the minority of Muslims who are terrorists?


There are ZERO Jehovah's Witnesses that are terrorists but, it is estimated that that 16% of the 1.6billion Muslims have chosen to Follow the Terrorism route as prescribed by their religion.

That's why I am wondering why are Jehovah Witnesses treated as the more dangerous Religion than Islam? Has Jehovah Witnesses killed mass amount of people intentionally?

Yes Muslims do kill Muslims. Because Islam is not Christianity where it's religious text is filled with allegory and Islam is about literal interpretation. So they are murdering Muslims who are perverting Islam by not practicing it's literal translation. And those Muslims who are desperately trying to find some new age allegorised interpretations to make their religion peaceful, should seriously just consider not being a Muslim anymore and switch religions. Because they are so desperate now, they wanna say, they don't want to refer to the Hadith for interpretation help anymore.

As the Hadiths supports all the terrorists interpretations. But unlike the Bible. The Quran is Allah's word through Muhammad. The Hadith is like an authentic history book, that gives context to Quran verses and is certified as genuine and accurate as the Quran. That Muslims are suppose to use it to understand the actual interpretation.

When you read the Hadiths. That's where all this nonsense come from! Like Female Genital Mutilation being COMPULSORY by Muhammad, that's the Hadith.

And I am not feeling for any Muslims who got killed in war, because ANYBODY who supports a religion that mutilate female babies deserves to die. That's just inhuman!

I bet Jehovah Witnesses don't have FGM in their religion!



In making such firm distinctions between Islam and Christianity you completely miss all the passages in the Old Testament in particular which can and have been used as justifications for violence. The Bible has also been used to persecute homosexuals, excuse violence against women and to justify war against unbelievers.

Do you really have no historical or international perspective and think that Muslims are the only people that have used their religion as the justification for violence against people from other religions or people from the same religion who do not practice in the same way they do?

Blaming the specific teachings of Islam for this more than other religions is precisely to believe anti-Muslim propaganda, as violence carried out in the name of other religions is also justified in great detail by those inciting it.

Christianity, Hinduism and even Buddhism have been used a justifications for terrorism, communal violence with monks and religious leaders involved in the incitement, explained by religious interpretations. Hinduism although famous for pacifists such as Gandhi also describes and justifies the need for violence and war, just as Islam does.

Just to stick with some of the best known or recent examples: Buddhist violence against Muslims in Myanmar and Sir Lanka promoted by monks, communal violence against Muslims by Hindus in India, violence and persecution between Hindu sects in India, Christian concepts of just war being used to justify wars even in the twentieth century, the Inquisition, European violent colonisation of "heathen" countries using Christianity as a method for subjugation, a tool for civilisation and a justification for why indigenous people's lives mattered less (it's always useful to read what European colonists said themselves about the civilising power of Christianity before you dismiss its role in the number of people who died), attempts by Christians at religious genocide in the former Yugoslavia, inter-communal violence in Northern Ireland . The list goes on. I could go back further and also quote Cromwell in the UK, the Spanish Conquistadors and the Crusades.

As a Christian, or at the very least having been brought up in a home with church going parents, I find myself thinking that the violence carried out by Christians tend to be cases of spurious religious justifications for political or economic violence. For me Christianity should be about peace and love for your fellow human. but not all people see things that way. In other words violent people use convenient interpretations of the Bible to achieve non-religious means.

But that is exactly what "moderate" Muslims say about Islamic extremists. Islamic terrorists and organisations like IS have a skewed interpretation of Islam, want to force others to become Muslims to impose power with the justification of civilising them and saving them from themselves (sounds like European colonial violence) when their aims are actually political, ethnic or economic.

Islamic terrorists are violent people with political aims using religion as a justification. Pointing the finger at millions of Muslims is just blind prejudice.

Apples and oranges.

We are talking about the banning of JWs not the banning of Christians in general.

We are talking about the banning of JWs and Greta75 wants to know why JWs who are not violent are banned and not Muslims that are about 16% of which are violent?

(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 4:43:56 AM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
In making such firm distinctions between Islam and Christianity you completely miss all the passages in the Old Testament in particular which can and have been used as justifications for violence. The Bible has also been used to persecute homosexuals, excuse violence against women and to justify war against unbelievers.


I need to stop you right here. This is why I desperately need people to stop treating Islam the same as Christianity. Let explain to you time-line.

1) Old Testament Era
2) Jesus came AFTER Old Testament Correct?
3) Muhammad came AFTER Jesus correct? Angry that Christians believed that Jesus is the son of God, and Jesus implemented some "turn the other cheek" bullshit that negated the old testament "eye for an eye" philosophy, so he came up with the Quran, to BRING THE OLD TESTAMENT BACK! Brought back "Eye for an Eye".

Get it? Where do you think Muhammad got all his ideas for his Quran? That's why Muhammad accuse Jesus of lying that he is the son of God and that he was just a prophet of God. SAME GOD! Angel Gabriel, same Angel Gabriel in old testament was the one who came to give Muhammad all his messages for the Quran.

When Christians start committing atrocities of the old testament, they would be disobeying Jesus.

When Muslims committing atrocities of the old testament, they are obeying Muhammad.

Get it?

I will call out any Buddhist who commit any violence, because Buddha would not even kill a mosquito or an Ant. No living things can be harm. Not even a mosquito that sucks your blood, you aren't allowed to kill it. Any buddhist who dares kill is disobeying Buddha. I grew up in Buddhism okay! And those are the rules. We aren't even allowed to eat meat as we aren't suppose to hurt animals or insects or ANY living creature. (Obviously many of us disobey all the rules, and continue to eat meat and kill mosquitoes. But in Buddhism we know we will be punished in hell for all these crimes, so we know there are consequences in death)

Whereas with Islam. Muhammad has lead by example that it is okay to kill as long as the people are "against you". Muhammad HIMSELF demonstrated by his own actions and example, by committing killings himself! And ordering killings. So Yes, I am pointing my finger at Billions of Muslims OF WHY ARE THEY FOLLOWING A MURDERER? What kind of religion teaches people that killing is okay?



< Message edited by Greta75 -- 4/26/2017 4:53:46 AM >

(in reply to longwayhome)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 4:46:28 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles

You've really thought this out haven't you?


There is nothing you've said thus far that indicates you have any idea what thought actually is.


quote:

As long as everyone does as you think and say they are "free" to do anything they want.


News you can use- not I or any other single person in my neighborhood or my society dictate what all others do or think, and I in fact made that plain for those with even minimal reading and comprehension skills.

Boy, you do live 'way out there,' in more ways than one.

quote:

But what happens if it is not you that sets the standard for everyone else but someone else?


What happens if you learn basic reading comprehension?

Just imagine the possibilities.

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 5:21:22 AM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird
Lest it escaped notice, as mundane as the process might seem to be to some, a mother or a father or a mother and a father bringing a new spirit into the world is the most sacred thing I could imagine.

Tons of brats come into the world every day, I know full well. And too many of us turn out not as well as originally hoped, I know.

But it is the process that matters. It might vary greatly from one family or one country or one society to another, but there is a process in place for that community.

I'm not seeing where a mom or dad in middle of changing diaper of the infant/toddler or reading a story to the 4-5 yr. benefits by having the doorbell rung by (JW) people preaching Armageddon, tell me if I'm wrong.


In fact millions have found benefits in it and you want to deprive others of those benefits because you personally don't like it.


If you've ever seen me depriving others' trying to go online to a JW site or standing in front of one of their few churches (there was one in my old neighborhood) trying to block entrance, then provide evidence and tell the world about it, by all means.

Many millions more have found benefit from many things they sought on their own, including religious venture.

Millions find benefit from choosing when to forgo total privacy and go out in public or go to the library or get on the phone or go online or go to social gatherings, knowing they have privacy when they choose when they get back home or turn off the computer and make supper and get the kids in the bath and read a book, etc.

What -you- 'think' (if one could call it thinking) is that it is a 'benefit' having what they thought was their privacy invaded by -others'- notion of 'Joy by way of Armageddon!'

I could point out Amazon (not that I'm a fan), but even just my local walk-to grocery store benefits more people that JWs, by far, and I can be at home all day (on those days) and never have to worry about them knocking on my door.

But hanging up on a telemarketer or subsequent number-blocking is denying that caller and that company their 'freedom' by your reckoning.

People doing much more useful things for society than JWs (like selling oranges or magazine subscriptions or gutter cleaning) gave up the door-to-door thing decades ago.

You can twist it all you want, but it doesn't change a thing.

-People making their own home the way they see fit-, best as they are able, is freedom, or at least making as much effort to that end as possible.

And if people's notion of good home excludes door knockers, then tough shit.




< Message edited by Edwird -- 4/26/2017 5:50:17 AM >

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 5:28:31 AM   
BoscoX


Posts: 10663
Joined: 12/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: longwayhome
In making such firm distinctions between Islam and Christianity you completely miss all the passages in the Old Testament in particular which can and have been used as justifications for violence. The Bible has also been used to persecute homosexuals, excuse violence against women and to justify war against unbelievers.


I need to stop you right here. This is why I desperately need people to stop treating Islam the same as Christianity. Let explain to you time-line.

1) Old Testament Era
2) Jesus came AFTER Old Testament Correct?
3) Muhammad came AFTER Jesus correct? Angry that Christians believed that Jesus is the son of God, and Jesus implemented some "turn the other cheek" bullshit that negated the old testament "eye for an eye" philosophy, so he came up with the Quran, to BRING THE OLD TESTAMENT BACK! Brought back "Eye for an Eye".

Get it? Where do you think Muhammad got all his ideas for his Quran? That's why Muhammad accuse Jesus of lying that he is the son of God and that he was just a prophet of God. SAME GOD! Angel Gabriel, same Angel Gabriel in old testament was the one who came to give Muhammad all his messages for the Quran.

When Christians start committing atrocities of the old testament, they would be disobeying Jesus.

When Muslims committing atrocities of the old testament, they are obeying Muhammad.

Get it?

I will call out any Buddhist who commit any violence, because Buddha would not even kill a mosquito or an Ant. No living things can be harm. Not even a mosquito that sucks your blood, you aren't allowed to kill it. Any buddhist who dares kill is disobeying Buddha. I grew up in Buddhism okay! And those are the rules. We aren't even allowed to eat meat as we aren't suppose to hurt animals or insects or ANY living creature. (Obviously many of us disobey all the rules, and continue to eat meat and kill mosquitoes. But in Buddhism we know we will be punished in hell for all these crimes, so we know there are consequences in death)

Whereas with Islam. Muhammad has lead by example that it is okay to kill as long as the people are "against you". Muhammad HIMSELF demonstrated by his own actions and example, by committing killings himself! And ordering killings. So Yes, I am pointing my finger at Billions of Muslims OF WHY ARE THEY FOLLOWING A MURDERER? What kind of religion teaches people that killing is okay?




The Pope is going to Egypt on Friday to try to make Muslims love Christians.

Big mistake. Muslims are taught to hate all non-Muslims by their religion, there is a good chance he will be killed

Their religion teaches hate

You will never see a powerful Muslim travel to the Vatican to try to make Christians love Muslims, except perhaps in a cartoonish Amazon.com fantasy commercial because that would be apostasy, punishable by death. And if he did no one would even think there was any sort of a threat to that Muslim's life by Christians at the Vatican if he did visit the Pope

Just when he returned home

Muslims are commanded by the Koran to subjugate or kill all non-Muslims, and to lie about their intentions as well

Jesus taught his followers that the Old Testament no longer applies, to literally turn the other cheek when struck so an attacker can hit the other side of his face

_____________________________

Hunter is the smartest guy I know

(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 6:25:15 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milesnmiles
the US and Canada were throwing JWs in prison and in some cases they were lynched.


first I have heard of such a thing to the extent you are implying it occurred, especially when it's linked to what hitler did.



I was going to quote much of this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minersville_School_District_v._Gobitis but decided it would be better for someone to read it for themself in context.

It's interesting that they were being called Nazis in the US at the same time actual Nazis were putting them in Concentration camps in Germany.


these things are a challenge to talk about without prompting some sort of emotional response, which isn't my intent, so please bear with me.

when people write and link what goes on in one place to what goes on in another, either intentionally or not, a sort of equivalency appears---as if what went on with the jw's in America was the same as what was going on with them in Germany. they bear some similarities but I could not hold them as the same.

im not for a moment going to suggest that what you've referenced shouldn't be taken seriously, but allow me to heavily criticize it. when I was in grad school, I read a fascinating article about how a "myth" about a particular subject made its way into the academic literature. something was said at a conference---and I don't remember if it was misheard, taken out of context, or used wrongly---but the researchers in question were able to trace how this one thing said at the conference spread out through the literature, and even though the statement was wrong, it was perpetually being treated as correct.

similarly, when I was teaching college, I used to do this a little with my students--we'd be reading along and I would recognize a sort of "suspect" section and id say, okay, lets follow the author's reference to this. we'd find the reference to it, and all it would be was a vague statement, much like the secondary author just used. in short, a common sentiment was just being passed around from one author to the next to the next with no direct reference to the actual data from which that sentiment originally sprung. a sort of academic circle jerk if you will.

this occurred on the wiki page reference in a couple of forms. one is, the page made bunches of statements of violence against the jws---the majority of those statements ended with "citations needed" inserts---meaning the author of the page is just saying them with reference to an original source.

the author says "thousands" were jailed---the source he links says "2000"---technically 2000 is thousands, but id also call it overstating. at the same time, the "original source" the wiki author is linking are just limited pages from a google book, which does not provide a reference itself for that claim. I understand in-text referencing changes the appearance of writing, and sometimes makes it slightly cumbersome to read, but its also pretty frustrating for someone like me who's reading along with a fair deal of skepticism to not be able to get answers to questions that continually arise.

the author talks about "lynching" but the reference is vague and if you do an internet search for "Jehovah's witnesses lynched" the only hit you get is the wiki page, and one small forum conversation in which the wiki page is referenced.

is it possible such things occurred, sure and i trust they they did given prejudices that exist and all the more so heightened by some patriotic fervor---but its unfortunate the scholarly telling of the story, at least in the limited format from which we are viewing it, is lacking.

I agree, there's a great deal of irony in the jw's being called Nazi sympathizers (not Nazis themselves) given the persecution their religious brothers were facing in Germany but I also can separate that, that is the actions of mobs, from the difficulty the state had (in terms of draft boards and court cases) when trying to discern the truth of things and make legal rulings and to further separate that in contrast to how the Nazis handled things and what they ultimately did to the jw's.

it appears, according to the "subsequent history" section, we eventually, what I would say, "got it right."




< Message edited by bounty44 -- 4/26/2017 6:27:33 AM >

(in reply to Milesnmiles)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Russia offically bans Jehovah Witnesses - 4/26/2017 6:39:09 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Greta75


I need to stop you right here.

Actually you need to stop being so ignorant and educate yourself.

This is why I desperately need people to stop treating
Islam the same as Christianity. Let explain to you time-line.


1) Old Testament Era
2) Jesus came AFTER Old Testament Correct?
3) Muhammad came AFTER Jesus correct?

This is correct

Angry that Christians believed that Jesus is the son of God, and Jesus implemented
some "turn the other cheek" bullshit that negated the old testament "eye for an eye"

Eye for an eye is not old testament dumbass it is code of hammurabi. It does not call
for removing another's eye but compensating for loss dumbass. Get a clue...get a library card...
learn to read.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.





(in reply to Greta75)
Profile   Post #: 80
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