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RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 5:24:22 AM

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I believe the phrase ‘earn respect’ is necessary within the context of BDSM. There are too many dominants who believe the title should automatically garner a level of respect from submissive folk which, in my opinion, is presumptuous at best. There are too many submissives who buy into that notion as well.
In order to submit to someone I must have an intensity of respect that goes beyond the norm. That kind of esteem occurs with time, communication and consistency. If a dominant wants that deference then they should be willing to accept the responsibilities that come with it.

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(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:17:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
In moving to the living one, one inconvinced himself for the other. He displayed submission towards the other. This was something of a mutual contract- hence its adoption.

Do you equate inconveniencing one's self with submission? Because most doms put themselves through a lot of inconvenience to create and maintain a healthy relationship with a slave, and I'm not even discussing intimacy or emotional issues.

Inconveniencing one's self in the short term for a best result for everyone (and the result YOU want) in the long term doesn't seem like submission to me- it seems like good project management and goal reaching.

What about a person who offers their seat on a bus to an elderly person? Or a very pregnant woman? Are they submitting to that person because they wish the other to be more convenienced, even if it inconveniences them?

When does something go from "being nice, courteous, respectful" to "being submissive"?

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:18:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SanDieganMichael
I do not believe that rudeness is ever neccesary, or in any way expected or accepted.

I won't go THAT far. I'm not a pacifist.

However, while there may indeed be justifications for rudeness, someone else's rudeness isn't one of them.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SanDieganMichael)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:25:39 AM

imthatacheyouhav

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Rudeness is never justified. Rudeness is NOT needed to make ones point. I realize there are people that do not know how to make there point without being rude, but that maybe just a lack of resoruces on their part. I believe a thoughtful considerate person with reasonable intelligence can express themselevs without stooping to being rude. then again thats just my opinion...and everyone has their own i imagine....

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RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:32:28 AM

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Well my example would be if someone was rude enough to put their hands on my partner or my nephews which made them uncomfortable, I would first immediately icily ask/tell them to remove their hands. If they did it again, their hands would be physically removed. I don't care how rude my actions would appear.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:38:08 AM

imthatacheyouhav

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well my example would be if someone was rude enough to put their hands on my partner or my nephews which made them uncomfortable, I would first immediately icily ask/tell them to remove their hands. If they did it again, their hands would be physically removed. I don't care how rude my actions would appear.

My apologies...i thought we were speaking of social situations or even forum postings...if you are speaking of someone physically threating a family memeber...then we have a different dance going on...i become a VERY different woman if you mess with my kids,....family in general.....

_____________________________

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:45:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav
My apologies...i thought we were speaking of social situations or even forum postings...if you are speaking of someone physically threating a family memeber...then we have a different dance going on...i become a VERY different woman if you mess with my kids,....family in general.....

I am talking social situations, and not threatening. Simply touching them in a way which they feel is uncomfortable. This could be as basic as putting a hand on their shoulder.

But I think we agree on the principle- sometimes rudeness IS justified (just not because another person is rude).

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to imthatacheyouhav)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:49:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Respect, proper, is to what degree, in what manner, and to what ends one might yield to another. Respect is a relatively tangible effect of submission.

Respect is a component of many relationships on many parts except for those in a supremely dominant position or those disconcerned with the reactions of others in regards to making discisions conerning their own actions.

I do think that one need yield to another to have even the greatest of respect for. Respect may be an effect found in relation to submission, though not exclusive to it. The basic respect that I feel and extend toward others, and the world I live in, is not contrived by submission. I believe it is result of basic humbleness, and humility in balance with ego, not to see oneself as above another.

In regard to the exception of those in extremely dominant postions, I do not find that to be exclusive by any means.
I am quite familiar with many in very dominant postions in life. Some have little respect towards others, and many have the upmost respect for the world around them and those in it.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:55:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
In moving to the living one, one inconvinced himself for the other. He displayed submission towards the other. This was something of a mutual contract- hence its adoption.

Do you equate inconveniencing one's self with submission? Because most doms put themselves through a lot of inconvenience to create and maintain a healthy relationship with a slave, and I'm not even discussing intimacy or emotional issues.

Inconveniencing one's self in the short term for a best result for everyone (and the result YOU want) in the long term doesn't seem like submission to me- it seems like good project management and goal reaching.

What about a person who offers their seat on a bus to an elderly person? Or a very pregnant woman? Are they submitting to that person because they wish the other to be more convenienced, even if it inconveniences them?

When does something go from "being nice, courteous, respectful" to "being submissive"?

I quite agree with LA. Selflessnes, and compassion do not equate to making someone submissive.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 7:59:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

This is a statement used over and over again. And I have just read through two recent threads where people make this announcement.

My question is - how does a person earn respect? Length of time - how long does it take? What does a person have to do? And are we entitled to be rude until 'respect' is earned.
What actually is 'respect'?

Peace and Rapture

Greetings

How does a person 'earn' respect?
Right off the bat, I am not sure that a person CAN EARN it. You either respect them or you do not.

I am required, in both real life and online, to show respect to all, men and women; old and young. It is how I was raised, the military has reinforced this, and Master makes sure that I never forget it.

I do not see rudeness and respect in the same light. One can be respectful and still be rude Rudeness to me is a lack of common courtesy towards others and has nothing to do with respecting another.

I define respect as a way of showing deference to another; whether you think they deserve it or not. Now granted, on a personal level, a person can lose what little respect I have for them, but I will still act and speak respectfully towards them out of courtesy.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:29:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Respect is a component of many relationships on many parts except for those in a supremely dominant position or those disconcerned with the reactions of others in regards to making discisions conerning their own actions.

LOL

Yeah...if you are an omnipotent and tyranical god...

But unfortanely...power and authortiy in a CONSENTUAL relationship is not ompipotent in anyway.

Fealing you dont have to show any degree of respect to your slave simply because your her Master is a good way to find out how powerless and small you really are when she packs up her bags and tells you to fuck off.

And this is what I feal gets lost a lot in all these discussions about "power" and how supreme and absolute our power or authority is.

The reality that he/she doesnt have to be there if they dont want to and without their consent, there is no power or supremity in your authority over them.

Of course, you could buy a gun...

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/22/2007 8:36:51 AM >

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(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:32:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Respect, proper, is to what degree, in what manner, and to what ends one might yield to another. Respect is a relatively tangible effect of submission.

Respect is a component of many relationships on many parts except for those in a supremely dominant position or those disconcerned with the reactions of others in regards to making discisions conerning their own actions.

Greetings

I am curious as to what you have said here. Are you saying that simply because you are in a position of power ( the Dominant ) that being respectful to others is something that you feel you do not have to abide by?

Just curious if I read this right or wrong.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:36:53 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Respect, proper, is to what degree, in what manner, and to what ends one might yield to another. Respect is a relatively tangible effect of submission.

I really like that highlighted statement - only I do not believe that is only an effect of submission. Like you suggest, respect is a component of many relationships and for me that includes non BDSM. So I would maybe exchange 'submission' simply for 'healthy relationships'?

"Healthy relationships" would work in, probably, the majority of cases.

I chose "submission" as I see submission to be the willingness to forego one's own interests for the interests of another. Should one respect another, even in the case of a man respecting a woman enough not to crudely snatch at her breasts at an impulse, he's acting against his own personal interest for hers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

quote:

Respect is a component of many relationships on many parts except for those in a supremely dominant position or those disconcerned with the reactions of others in regards to making discisions conerning their own actions.

I am interested and if you can expound on what you mean by 'except for those in a supremely dominant position'?
Peace

Ah, I'm very much into absolutes. I see a statement as wrong if it isn't applicable everywhere, so a supremely dominant position was one I mentioned for the sake of completeness.

A supremely dominant position would be like a god to a human. Such as, the Christian God need not respect humans- or make concessions to them (this isn't to say, in their religion, they don't believe that he does, he just doesn't need to).

An approximation of a supremely dominant position occurs in some instances I've observed where a slave is submissive to the point that she is utterly disconcerned with anything but serving her Master. The Master need not respect her as she would serve to the best of her ability, regardless.

High ranking officials in some organizations may also be an approximation. Such as, a fuedal king need not display much respect for a peasant's life, well being, or anything else, really.

Supremely dominant positions aren't very common, but this is what I mean by it.

Edit: Opps, missed a quote tag.

< Message edited by CuriousLord -- 5/22/2007 8:38:42 AM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:44:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord
In moving to the living one, one inconvinced himself for the other. He displayed submission towards the other. This was something of a mutual contract- hence its adoption.

Do you equate inconveniencing one's self with submission? Because most doms put themselves through a lot of inconvenience to create and maintain a healthy relationship with a slave, and I'm not even discussing intimacy or emotional issues.

Inconveniencing one's self in the short term for a best result for everyone (and the result YOU want) in the long term doesn't seem like submission to me- it seems like good project management and goal reaching.

What about a person who offers their seat on a bus to an elderly person? Or a very pregnant woman? Are they submitting to that person because they wish the other to be more convenienced, even if it inconveniences them?

When does something go from "being nice, courteous, respectful" to "being submissive"?

Most of the time, I would say. I would define submission, context, as "the will to act in the interests of another before one's self".

This said, one may give up a seat to an elderly person on a bus as an act of kindness. I would argue that this is a learned trait of submission. This is not to say the elderly person necessarily has any great power over the one giving up the seat, and not that the one giving up the seat would then take some order from the elderly person, and this is certainly not saying it's an act of great submission.

I believe it is as you chose it- a mundane act, hardly credible with anything. Still, from the line you've chosen it, it is in line with my definition, just mildly enough to seem negliable. So, just a little bit of submission? :P

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:52:32 AM

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Greetings MadRabbit

While I was confused as to what CuriousLord was saying, I felt that I had to respond to something that you wrote.

“Feeling you don’t have to show any degree of respect to your slave simply because you are her Master is a good way to find out how powerless and small you really are when she packs up her bags and tells you to fuck off”

Master is in no way ‘required’ to show respect to me at any time. He is not required to DO ANYTHING for or to me. Whether he does or not is really HIS perogative.

I also wanted to comment on another part that you mentioned.

“The reality that he/she does not have to be there if they don’t want to be”

This I do agree with. I have the realistic power to walk out the door at any time I wish.

“and without their consent, there is no power or authority over them”

This part I disagree with. Master does not require my consent for anything. I consented ONCE and only once; and that was when I begged to become his. After that, I have absolutely no say in how Master chooses to treat me.

Now granted, I am fortunate in that Master, despite being sadistic and at times extremely cruel; is also a very loving and caring person. He understands the little things that I want from our relationship, but that in no way means that he is required to give them to me.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:56:14 AM

imthatacheyouhav

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I don't believe anyone has ever earned my respect...i know people have caused me to deepen my respect for them...and also there have been those that have lost my respect...but i don't believe i've ever had anyone earn that from me...i give it...if they keep it, its up to them.

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**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to jauntyone)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:57:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: szobras

I do think that one need yield to another to have even the greatest of respect for. Respect may be an effect found in relation to submission, though not exclusive to it. The basic respect that I feel and extend toward others, and the world I live in, is not contrived by submission. I believe it is result of basic humbleness, and humility in balance with ego, not to see oneself as above another.

Perhaps, then, you act in mannerisms I would consider as submissive, not for the sake of being submissive but for sake of identity? Still, I would argue that such a component of identity was derivative of a submissive idealogy.

This said, I'm not saying you're not dominant. I'd ask you not feel I imply this about yourself or any other. I believe almost everyone displays submission in some way- someone supremely dominant to everyone he has encourtered at all points might be an exception. Though, did a God ever exist? Actually, even Zues would have to respect other dieites- an omnipotent God would be the only one without need for respect.

quote:

ORIGINAL: szobras

In regard to the exception of those in extremely dominant postions, I do not find that to be exclusive by any means.
I am quite familiar with many in very dominant postions in life. Some have little respect towards others, and many have the upmost respect for the world around them and those in it.

Here, I would ask you consider the differences between respect and appreciation. Such as, a Master may have a slave there for just his personal use. He may appreciate her- be glad she exists and such- but not respect her, or yield to her.

Such as, should a Dom be playing with a sub, and the sub calls a safeword, the Dom submits to the sub's desire to cease his actions. Coming from a vanilla prospective, it's easy to misunderstand this as a Dom simply allowing a sub her right to not engage in unconsentual intercourse- still, in not doing so, the Dom acts in the interests of the sub, even if against his own, for her sake. He submits to her order of a safeword.

This isn't to say that the Dom has less power in the relationship than the sub- only that the sub does have some power over the dominant.

All the same, I would agree that extremely dominant positions aren't overly lacking in scalar considerations, only relatively.

(in reply to szobras)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 8:58:53 AM

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And I asked because so many posts on CM are made by people annoyed because their emails are not getting answered, their requests for chats are being ignored, ect. There is an awful lot of whining about that on CM. Heck. I just dropped somoene an email yesterday with a question to a stranger and he didn't write me back! For me.. I don't consider that rude at all. For one, I, in effect, spammed him by my unsolicited email. And for another, my mood is not dictated by any percieved lack of courtesy. Here on CM the non response seems to get a lot of "why are people so rude", posts. It just seems odd to me.
So I asked what you consider rude because around here that would be the thought of many.
I want to know what kind of rude responses you specifically got. Because I really find it hard to envision rudeness on this venue.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

Hello missokyst
What do I consider rude? Anything that infringes on another against consent including my own at the same time.

I answered you because you asked. However, what I or anyone else believes is rude, in the case of me asking that specific question, (to me) is irrelevant to the response, simply because rudeness is subjective and it was for the context not the content I used the word 'rude'. What one person thinks is rude, someone else may not - I used the word in a general sense. (Which is why I rephrased the question a little later).

Hope that assists.

Peace

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 9:04:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jauntyone

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Respect, proper, is to what degree, in what manner, and to what ends one might yield to another. Respect is a relatively tangible effect of submission.

Respect is a component of many relationships on many parts except for those in a supremely dominant position or those disconcerned with the reactions of others in regards to making discisions conerning their own actions.

Greetings

I am curious as to what you have said here. Are you saying that simply because you are in a position of power ( the Dominant ) that being respectful to others is something that you feel you do not have to abide by?

Just curious if I read this right or wrong.

I wish you well

melissa

Hum, I think this may not be accurate.

I do not have to respect my slave. I do not have to yield to anything she says or wants, for the large part- she might object if I started torturing her biological family to death. I'm not too sure yet. I suppose that'll be one of those things I'll never know. :P Well, except for her biological father.. but that's a different story. Actually, in that case, I'm pretty sure she would cheer me on.

Still, not having to respect her doesn't mean I need not respect anyone else. I still need to respect a police officer enough not to go up and take his gun at a whim. Among many other things.

Even in public, I need to respect the law about my slave. Personally, I'm not a sadist, but if I was? I couldn't just beat her up in a kid's park. Not because she wouldn't want it, but I would have to respect and yield to the law- unless, of course, I would like going to court.

I would analyze respect many times over for a particular relationship- many different levels of it.

(in reply to jauntyone)

RE: "Earn Respect" - 5/22/2007 9:09:00 AM

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What I meant by "without their consent, they have no power or authority" is IF you were to leave him, then he would be in fact powerless and without authority since the authority he has was created by you making that one choice to consent.

While I'm sure the two of you have a happy and successful relationship that works off this dynamic, I just find this line of thinking...

quote:

Master is in no way ‘required’ to show respect to me at any time. He is not required to DO ANYTHING for or to me. Whether he does or not is really HIS perogative.

to be a bit on the dangerous side...

Here is some examples...

What if he were to not provide you with food or drink to the point where your life was threatened by stavation and dehydration?

What if he were to physically abuse you to the point of nearly fatal injuries?

What if he were to constantly place you in situations that were indeed very life threatening?

What if he were to constantly show no respect and degrade and betille you, lowering your self esteem and self worth, constantly threatening your mental health?

Would you continue to stay with him and endure his cruelty and abuse under the context that he is not required to do ANYTHING for you?

Or would you use your option to pack up your bags and leave, thus showing that your submission to him was required by him doing certain things?

Personally, this is not a notion or a line of thinking I promote at all, because while it works and is upheld in healthy relationships with responsible masters, its dangerous and flawed in relationships that are uhealthy with abusive and irresponsible ones.

As a dominant, I beleive I am very much required to provide the things that are necessary for maintaining someone's physical and mental health.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 5/22/2007 9:13:20 AM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to jauntyone)

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