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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:23:04 PM

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Slaveluci -
Ask for permission to speak by raising a hand.
Ask for permission to enter a channel by sending a private message to an authority in the channel, just as if you were entering a password-protected channel.

Akbarbarian -
Without knowing anything about your relationship, a few thoughts cross my mind.
1. You can very easily table a discussion for tomorrow night. That way you get your sleep, you have time to think up a good counter-arguement, etc.
2. Is there a possibility that she is doing this to test you and see how far you can be pushed? I was in a relationship once with fights like this and, years later, she admitted that it was because she didn't feel she deserved it and was actively, subconciously, sabotaging the relationship.
3. Be careful about trying to be a hero. If the person you are with is seriously broken then odds are they were like that for a long time before you arrived and chances that you can fix that person are slim.
4. Why weren't these "passionate topics" dealt with earlier? Did her (or your) opinions magically change when the relationship reached the next level?

Sorry if I sound like a pessimist. I really do want the best for you and her and I hope it works out. I'm just saying watch out because I've been there, I tried (god, how I tried)... but I couldn't make it work. If you can, let me know the secret.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:41:23 PM

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Give me an example of a typical fight and how it plays out.

Some of the fights seem mundane or petty, and some less so. Last night for example, when she had trouble sleeping I suggested that she read a book I got for her recently "The Tender Heart: Conquering your insecurity" and she said she didn't want to read it after watching happy, cheery cartoons because she feared it would cause her to have bad dreams if she dealt with a topic she considers a downer. I told her the root of the problem needs to be dealt with as well, which the book is there to help her overcome, and she became upset and ranted in a defensive posture for quite some time. She told me about how she has had to cope with panic attacks over the years and that my telling her to change what works is being ignorant of her situation. I tried in vain after that to tell her that I understand the need to cope in the short term, but that in the long term causes of fears need to be addressed as well. I tried to be accomidating to her desire to cope, with the caveat that long term healing must also be a priority. Eventually when it seemed she wasn't listening, I made it clear that I was not willing to live with someone who has fears and inner demons who only desires to distract herself from them and never address the root cause. The intended message was only that I want her to find the causes of her fears and heal from them but she ranted for several hours and didn't seem to understand the incredibly simple message I was trying to say.

quote:

Remember- it really does take two to argue.

This is an extremely important, if simple point. I will try to remind myself of this and I thank you for bringing it up.

quote:

Slaves will have opinions- the issue is whether you want them to express them or not AND if you want them to be expressed, what restrictions you have no that expression.

What of Kate, in taming of the shrew I wonder? She agreed that the moon was the sun.

quote:

Randomly- what about her past relationships? Is arguing just a pattern she's used to having?

From what I have seen, she is used to those close to her bickering and being impolite to each other and not listening to each other so she has learned to raise her voice and repeat herself in order to be recognized.

< Message edited by cturcott -- 6/15/2007 6:43:18 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:43:21 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

Hello akbarbarian. When the "opinion" thingie gets too frequent, too intense or just too much, ask her to write it out for you. Tell her you will get back to her at a more "convenient" time.

If this as result is "displeasing" to her, you may have a compatibility issue. If she is happy to do it, as she is pleased with your "real" interest in her opinions, it is just a synchronization of communication styles.

The only questions here are, is she helping the dynamic? or is she controlling it? RL.

Edit: typo

< Message edited by robertolapiedra -- 6/15/2007 6:57:05 PM >

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:46:50 PM

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

To have an opinion is good and express it respectfully is also good. To be disrespectful and argue is not. If boundaries and rules have not been set then she may not think she is arguing. If you have clearly set rules and boundaries on the way to express ones self then that is another problem.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:48:19 PM

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: peachums
Finally a man pointed out that there is a way to be firry and opinionated but to keep it respectful and to where things come off passive and not an order.
Just agreeing and pretending to like what the dominant likes never works. Things just build up then, it just takes learning how to see his point of view and accept his choice even if it is not always yours.

Though I expected more Masters to reply, I am interested in perspectives from both sides of the fence so your reply is quite welcome. How did you learn to be respectful while voicing your views, and can you elaborate on that? I tend to agree that things could get resentful if this is not handled well, and I am very quick to notice when my partner doesn't like somthing and it rubs me the wrong way immediately to have compliance+lack of enthusiasm.

(in reply to peachums)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:51:00 PM

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Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
I did have to draw the line with him regarding arguing points. I told him I have my opinion and you have yours as long as we both respect that there should not be a problem.

This could be a way to have peace in the short term, though in the long run I want someone to be "agreeable" which means they agree with me lots :)

(in reply to Lashra)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 6:56:32 PM

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Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JerryInTampa
If it's "no, outlawing bunny slippers was wrong", then she's welcome to her own opinion, as long as she's not insubordinate.

Perhaps it's the brand of her expressing opinion that irks me most. She does it in incredibly insubordinate ways. I have asked her several times, "If you talked like that to the boss at work do you think you'd be able to continue to work there?" And that's just work which should be less D/s than in an M/s relationship so it's way off the mark from how I believe it should be. She has admitted that work wouldn't keep her on if she talked like that as well, but it hasn't corrected the problem for her to realize this.

quote:

If she always thought what you thought and wanted what you wanted, then what would be her submission?

Um yeah that's pretty sexy, sorry, what was the question? It's hard to think when I'm that turned on.

(in reply to JerryInTampa)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:01:11 PM

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl
If your not in the mood to hear her opinion deny her the privledge. It's that simple.

This has been anything but simple, and I haven't gotten that reliably. Her passion starts and she ruuuuuuns with it and she's like the Juggernaut once she's going. It's not easy to stop her.

(in reply to meticulousgirl)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:02:29 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Slaveluci -
Ask for permission to speak by raising a hand.
Ask for permission to enter a channel by sending a private message to an authority in the channel, just as if you were entering a password-protected channel.

Are you her master? And if not, why do you think it is appropriate to tell her what to do?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to HypnoticDan)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:09:54 PM

sublimelysensual

Posts: 298
Joined: 7/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cturcott

quote:

ORIGINAL: JerryInTampa
If it's "no, outlawing bunny slippers was wrong", then she's welcome to her own opinion, as long as she's not insubordinate.

Perhaps it's the brand of her expressing opinion that irks me most. She does it in incredibly insubordinate ways. I have asked her several times, "If you talked like that to the boss at work do you think you'd be able to continue to work there?" And that's just work which should be less D/s than in an M/s relationship so it's way off the mark from how I believe it should be. She has admitted that work wouldn't keep her on if she talked like that as well, but it hasn't corrected the problem for her to realize this.

quote:

If she always thought what you thought and wanted what you wanted, then what would be her submission?

Um yeah that's pretty sexy, sorry, what was the question? It's hard to think when I'm that turned on.

If You truly want someone who thinks exactly what You think, and wants exactly what You want, I'm afraid You're in for a lot of disappointment. I agree with many of the posters who stated it isn't respectful to be argumentative, to me, it's counterproductive, and more destructive than anything else. But that isn't to say two people can't agree to disagree and let it go. The thing is, there are no two people in the world who think about things exactly the same and have exactly the same desires. If You do succeed in turning someone into a mini s-type version of Yourself, do You think that would truly make her happy? Further, could You convince Yourself that she's being sincere in her agreement, and wouldn't You wonder where her head truly was? Just some things to think about...

-a

_____________________________

"To make oneself an object, to make oneself passive, is a very different thing from being a passive object." -Simone De Beauvoir -'The Second Sex'

(in reply to cturcott)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:10:05 PM

Posts: 70
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline

Has anyone here read akbarbarian's profile?? It seems that they haven't. This Dominant has moved since June 1 to an apartment with no furnishings and bought a new "toy" (a Corvette with a loud exhaust) to impress who?? a male coworker?? It seems he is now CAbarbarian as he has recently moved from Sitka, AK to California. His question in this forum seems rhetorical since he has stated in his profile and his blog notes that he expects his slave to like what he likes, dislike what he dislikes and if they aren't sure how to feel about something, just ask him and he will tell them. It seems that he does not want a slave who can think independently or question his authority. In my opinion, these things should have been foreseen and negotiated before the relationship commenced.

(in reply to cturcott)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:10:45 PM

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Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

2. Is there a possibility that she is doing this to test you and see how far you can be pushed? I was in a relationship once with fights like this and, years later, she admitted that it was because she didn't feel she deserved it and was actively, subconciously, sabotaging the relationship.

I suspect this could be true. Her self esteem, I believe, needs to be more secure.

(in reply to HypnoticDan)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:12:05 PM

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra
Hello akbarbarian. When the "opinion" thingie gets too frequent, too intense or just too much, ask her to write it out for you. Tell her you will get back to her at a more "convenient" time.

This sounds potentially like a good idea here.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:13:49 PM

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Joined: 12/19/2006
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Cturcott=me, accidental wrong login.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
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Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to cturcott)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:15:57 PM

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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thats all good shit.....when the slave starts to overanalyze and do nautilus thinking---

you will see evidence by the kinda phrase --'Maybe what you really mean----'

Shove your dick in her mouth, tell her to shut the fuck up and milk that motherfucker, I mean ----

some people out here are prone to flip a dictionary on you out here....

lets use a thesaurus--- self destructive, bad self talk---------whatever

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to cturcott)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:18:42 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublimelysensual

quote:

ORIGINAL: cturcott

quote:

ORIGINAL: JerryInTampa
If it's "no, outlawing bunny slippers was wrong", then she's welcome to her own opinion, as long as she's not insubordinate.

Perhaps it's the brand of her expressing opinion that irks me most. She does it in incredibly insubordinate ways. I have asked her several times, "If you talked like that to the boss at work do you think you'd be able to continue to work there?" And that's just work which should be less D/s than in an M/s relationship so it's way off the mark from how I believe it should be. She has admitted that work wouldn't keep her on if she talked like that as well, but it hasn't corrected the problem for her to realize this.

quote:

If she always thought what you thought and wanted what you wanted, then what would be her submission?

Um yeah that's pretty sexy, sorry, what was the question? It's hard to think when I'm that turned on.

If You truly want someone who thinks exactly what You think, and wants exactly what You want, I'm afraid You're in for a lot of disappointment. I agree with many of the posters who stated it isn't respectful to be argumentative, to me, it's counterproductive, and more destructive than anything else. But that isn't to say two people can't agree to disagree and let it go. The thing is, there are no two people in the world who think about things exactly the same and have exactly the same desires. If You do succeed in turning someone into a mini s-type version of Yourself, do You think that would truly make her happy? Further, could You convince Yourself that she's being sincere in her agreement, and wouldn't You wonder where her head truly was? Just some things to think about...

-a

I realize there is a limit to what's practical and reasonable, however it is a turn on to have that as much as she has it to give. The opposite, shouting her views repeatedly in opposition to mine however, is very harsh and stressful. I would like somthing inbetween, somthing real and also pleasant.

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to sublimelysensual)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:19:27 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cturcott

quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl
If your not in the mood to hear her opinion deny her the privledge. It's that simple.

This has been anything but simple, and I haven't gotten that reliably. Her passion starts and she ruuuuuuns with it and she's like the Juggernaut once she's going. It's not easy to stop her.

Actually very simple and easy.. its called a gag

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to cturcott)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:19:46 PM

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HypnoticDan

Akbarbarian -
Without knowing anything about your relationship, a few thoughts cross my mind.
1. You can very easily table a discussion for tomorrow night. That way you get your sleep, you have time to think up a good counter-arguement, etc.

The problem here, in my mind, is whether all of the parties are respectful of their partners to do this, as opposed to being stuck in the "Im gonna make your life a living hell and not let you sleep until we have discussed this ad nauseum."

That approach is often used by one side. Agreeing to table it until tomorrow night and then never allowing the subject be broached again is the evil twin approach.

quote:

2. Is there a possibility that she is doing this to test you and see how far you can be pushed? I was in a relationship once with fights like this and, years later, she admitted that it was because she didn't feel she deserved it and was actively, subconciously, sabotaging the relationship.

Not sure how to add the vomiting smiley, but everybody close your eyes and envision it here.

quote:

3. Be careful about trying to be a hero. If the person you are with is seriously broken then odds are they were like that for a long time before you arrived and chances that you can fix that person are slim.

IMHO, one can only help other people fix themselves. For them to fix themselves they have to want to do so.

quote:

4. Why weren't these "passionate topics" dealt with earlier? Did her (or your) opinions magically change when the relationship reached the next level?

Have to agree with this one.

One thing I seem to think happens is that the people in the relationship are only hearing what they want to hear, as opposed to hearing what the other person is saying. This is often why they have no idea "why" the person feels a certain way when they are in DEFCON 4.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to HypnoticDan)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:20:49 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EarthGoddess52

Has anyone here read akbarbarian's profile?? It seems that they haven't. This Dominant has moved since June 1 to an apartment with no furnishings and bought a new "toy" (a Corvette with a loud exhaust) to impress who?? a male coworker?? It seems he is now CAbarbarian as he has recently moved from Sitka, AK to California. His question in this forum seems rhetorical since he has stated in his profile and his blog notes that he expects his slave to like what he likes, dislike what he dislikes and if they aren't sure how to feel about something, just ask him and he will tell them. It seems that he does not want a slave who can think independently or question his authority. In my opinion, these things should have been foreseen and negotiated before the relationship commenced.

Oh yeah you're right, I suck! Jeez, I'm going to block myself now

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to EarthGoddess52)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 7:22:13 PM

Posts: 596
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: cturcott

quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl
If your not in the mood to hear her opinion deny her the privledge. It's that simple.

This has been anything but simple, and I haven't gotten that reliably. Her passion starts and she ruuuuuuns with it and she's like the Juggernaut once she's going. It's not easy to stop her.

Actually very simple and easy.. its called a gag

Magik's slave

That, and she loves gags too. I could put it in and then tell her what I think

_____________________________

Out and proud as a dominant male
United we stand!
Also:Not a service top!
Heretic of Gor

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

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