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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 9:45:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

I am in a M/s relationship and have been for about two months now with someone, a slave who has been, in the last few weeks since moving in with me, arguing with me frequently to the point it's kept me up late and short on sleep for work the following day for several days now. She says it is normal for anyone with thoughts and feelings to be that way, but that she's willing to "go through the motions" and act like she agrees even if she doesn't mean it with the statement that while she might be faking her agreement with me, she does it with the possibility that eventually she will actually mean it. This encompases many topics lately. How does this strike other Masters out there?

Well, she's being honest, to a point. It is not normal for "anyone" with thoughts and feelings to argue. I have a great many thoughts in my fluffy little head, and more than a few feelings. I'm even chock full of opinions. This does not mean that I quarrel incessantly late into the night. This is true also of my wife and a great many others that I know. I would only give this caveat - if she were mine (which she isn't) and if I was seriously trying to make the relationship work (which I might not based on the tiny thumbnail of data given) - but if those two posits were true, I would not require that she agree with me. I would not require that she keep her disagreement silent. I WOULD require, even demand, that she obey - which includes tabling her argument when I say that it is not open for discussion. It's one thing to have her own opinions, another thing to make me lose sleep.

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Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 9:48:18 PM

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quote:

What are Happy Tree Friends??? Should I be afraid?
and what ever happened to FukinTroll??

(trolls, friends in trees..just occurred to me i guess;)

Yes. Be afraid. Be very afraid. This is just sick and wrong. Guys think it's funny, though.

http://happytreefriends.atomfilms.com/

< Message edited by Evanesce -- 6/15/2007 9:49:29 PM >

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Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 9:56:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

What are Happy Tree Friends??? Should I be afraid?
and what ever happened to FukinTroll??

(trolls, friends in trees..just occurred to me i guess;)

Yes. Be afraid. Be very afraid. This is just sick and wrong. Guys think it's funny, though.

http://happytreefriends.atomfilms.com/

I like it, I am weird though

_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 9:59:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce

quote:

What are Happy Tree Friends??? Should I be afraid?
and what ever happened to FukinTroll??

(trolls, friends in trees..just occurred to me i guess;)

Yes. Be afraid. Be very afraid. This is just sick and wrong. Guys think it's funny, though.

http://happytreefriends.atomfilms.com/

oh good grief

um, yeah, thanks for that. ;)
reminds me of those Itchy and Scratchy cartoons on Simpsons

(in reply to Evanesce)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 10:03:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
.....She says it is normal for anyone with thoughts and feelings to be that way, but that she's willing to "go through the motions" and act like she agrees even if she doesn't mean it with the statement that while she might be faking her agreement with me, she does it with the possibility that eventually she will actually mean it. This encompases many topics lately. How does this strike other Masters out there?

What agreement are you trying to obtain?

My slaves have Consented to be mine... that is the only agreement that is of concern to me.

Thier agreement to my decisions is not nearly as important... and often.... it is of little concern.

What is of concern is their obedience to my will and the manner to which they obey my will.

One can obey without agreeing with the decision. I dare say that a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 10:27:09 PM

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I dare say that a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

That may make them a good slave in your book but I dont think that makes them a very good or smart person. Lets take a moral dissagrement for instence, the Dom doesnt feels something is emmoral say eating meat but the slave does, in your def her eating the red meat anyway makes her a better slave, but to me that just makes her unable to follow her own moral code and I dont know If you would want a slave like that. And in fact I think that shows lack of charector and I wouldnt admire it.

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 6/15/2007 10:29:47 PM >

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don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 10:49:13 PM

FelinePersuasion

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I am opinionated, I argue, sometimes I hurt his feelings with out meaning to because I am to tenatious in my vriew points, but the thing is, if he says stop, I am done this is over I will not talk a bout it or debait it any more, I try to stop.

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/15/2007 11:27:32 PM

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EveryO/one has opinions and EveryO/one has feelings, this is a natural thing, and between two different people there will always be two different viewpoints. As Your slave, part of her job is to share her thoughts/opinions with You and above all be honest. To be otherwise would be a far larger problem in my opinion.

However i can understand why this would upset You. i feel that while it is a slaves place to be honest and forthright (and yes this includes disagreeing), the word that bothers me is "argue". If she did not share her feelings, that would be a part of her that she held from You. If You did not listen and try to understand her view i don't think Your ownership would be as meaningful or true, but it is her job to submit and obey.

i wonder if the presentation is part of the problem. Sometimes when people get emotional they aren't even able to communicate the main issues/problems correctly and clearly. i know that i have learned a lot about my thoughts, actions, and reactions through keeping a journal for Master. When i write out my problems/issues i am able to view them in a different way, and i choose my words more carefully.

i don't think it is right or wise to censor Your slave's opinions/feelings, but maybe writing these things down could help her isolate specifically what her issues are, and plan alternate compromises. i think she is right to have an opinion. i think she is wrong to be argumentative. Perhaps another thing that could be done is bring up an issue, discuss, and go back to it a day later. Often in retrospect these things are less important. Also, sometimes the things W/we argue about are not really the issues at hand.

i think that it is important that You listen to the things she has to say. This makes You know her better, and be a better Master, and in turn it will make her serve You better. However, it is also important to communicate that there is a time for everything, and Your sleep time is not it. Something about the tone of Your post makes me wonder if small arguments are covering a bigger problem. i think that You need to investigate the small issues further.

Thank You, i wish You luck.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 12:26:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I dare say that a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

That may make them a good slave in your book but I dont think that makes them a very good or smart person. Lets take a moral dissagrement for instence, the Dom doesnt feels something is emmoral say eating meat but the slave does, in your def her eating the red meat anyway makes her a better slave, but to me that just makes her unable to follow her own moral code and I dont know If you would want a slave like that. And in fact I think that shows lack of charector and I wouldnt admire it.

Magik's slave

First.... you present a situation of individuals that by your example lack character in the first place. So expecting people lacking character to demonstrate character is silly.

Now people of character would and could have a moral disagreement on the virtues of eating red meat.

However... a Dominant of character would respect a submissives moral view that she/he doesn't eat red meat and not require them to eat it. It's called RESPECT and shows character.

However... a Submissive of character would RESPECT that a Dominant would eat red meat and accept his right to this decision with grace and not PROJECT her morality on him. It shows character.

So.... don't give a silly example to prove a point. If character doesn't exist at the heart of it... it's not exist at the end of it.

I suppose I make the silly assumption that people in intimate relationships tend to respect and appreciate each other. That they don't make stupid decisions that would violate the morality of another. I suppose it's silly to assume that it's common for people in intimate relationships would show respect for each other.

Next time.. I make such a statement.. I will place the cavet that in respectful and healthy relationships... a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 12:29:08 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

Let's not leave anything out now.

1)      Don’t whine or complain.
2)      If your behavior displeases me, stop immediately and ask how to become pleasing.
3)      When told how to be pleasing, seek a way to do it without protest.
4)      Do not offer explanations, give them only when asked.
5)      Don’t protect either of us from my judgment; only ask if I am sure it’s what I want.
6)      Believe I’m right whether you believe I am or not, make it so, never second guess me.
7)      Like something because I like it
8)      Dislike something because I dislike it
9)      Have confidence in something because I do
10)   Lack confidence in something because I do
11)   Check with me to determine how to feel about something
12)   Agree with everything I say, never disagree with anything I say. Be a “yes man”.

mmmmmmmmmm good luck with this........

............ your going to need it!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 12:32:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
. Check with a shrink, they'll point out that it's ok to be selfish at some level because that's our default. That doesn't make us bad for being that way.

yeah that is true in part.... what you leaving out.. is the price our selfishness has on others and ourselves.... now that can make for some problems.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to akbarbarian)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 5:11:13 AM

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Ironically, I see a lot of opinions here that would make a good case for not allowing slaves and subs to have opinions.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 6:24:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Ironically, I see a lot of opinions here that would make a good case for not allowing slaves and subs to have opinions.

Why stop with just submissives and slaves?

I can see a lot of opinions, including mine, that would build a great case for them to be confiscated for everybody's protection.

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 8:50:45 AM

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nevermind

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 6/16/2007 8:51:23 AM >

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MstrssPassion

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 10:41:51 AM

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I think your problem is that you are expecting the alignment of ideas to come overnight whereas in reality it takes years. Two months is nothing and you should be finding things you hadn't discussed prior cropping up all the time.

What seems to be the problem is the timing of the discussions. Instead of after dinner and tv, and at bedtime, you need to move the discussion to an earlier time. I myself don't journal but this sounds like she is trying to work things out within herself so she might find that journaling would help. At the very least you would know from reading her journal what she is thinking about before you get it sprung on you last thing at night. You read the journal, think about it, even write your responses if that works better timewise, and then you can settle things faster.

The fact that she is willing to believe you have good reasons even if she doesn't agree says a lot. Faking it till you make it can be a valuable technique. Just settle on a time to discuss these things that isn't that close to bedtime, and then end the discussion for the night. Perhaps go for a walk while you talk?

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 6:37:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
What is of concern is their obedience to my will and the manner to which they obey my will.
One can obey without agreeing with the decision. I dare say that a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

Absolutely! To me, that is part of the essence of my slavery - obeying Master even when I may not necessarily want to and demonstrating, as you said, grace and respect while doing so. It was never promised that I would always agree with His decisions but I have agreed to always obey them regardless.....slave luci

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 7:35:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
What is of concern is their obedience to my will and the manner to which they obey my will.
One can obey without agreeing with the decision. I dare say that a slave that is able to obey with grace dispite their different personal opinion on the decision shows alot of character to be admired.

Absolutely! To me, that is part of the essence of my slavery - obeying Master even when I may not necessarily want to and demonstrating, as you said, grace and respect while doing so. It was never promised that I would always agree with His decisions but I have agreed to always obey them regardless.....slave luci

beautifully said. i always say that i am willfully obendient. i obey, and maybe giving my opinion about the situation while i am doing what i should be doing. but the key thing is the obeying. not to mention a quick "shut it" normally brings it all to an end. one can have all of the thoughts and passions that they wish, and still somehow manage to maintain thier position.

love and light
lee

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 7:43:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee
beautifully said. i always say that i am willfully obendient. i obey, and maybe giving my opinion about the situation while i am doing what i should be doing. but the key thing is the obeying. not to mention a quick "shut it" normally brings it all to an end. one can have all of the thoughts and passions that they wish, and still somehow manage to maintain thier position.
love and light
lee

Thanks lee. The key thing really IS the obedience. Master encourages my thoughts and passions, as you say, but only to the point where they may interfere with doing as I'm told. I had to really laugh when you said a quick "shut it" ends the whole debate. If it doesn't, it sure should

(at least with us). Becoming a slave didn't make the opinionated part of me instantly vanish. It simply taught me how to rein it in and incorporate it respectfully. Blessings........luci

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 8:32:34 PM

MzMia

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Well stated luci, you summed it up in a nice way.

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Namaste'
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"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Should a slave be opinionated? - 6/16/2007 8:48:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Well stated luci, you summed it up in a nice way.

Thank you, MzMia

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