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RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 5:47:56 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What is too young to be a submissive?

Anyone under the legal age in my opinion. How young is too young to be a dominant?
quote:

I wonder about men in their 40's/50's/60's taking up with these tender young
women in their early 20's. 


I don't. Personally, I wonder more about these naive, tender young men/women who don't have the sense that they were blessed with in keeping away from older men/women who want them only because they are young.
quote:

  They are so young and impressionable, especially if they are only 18.

Says who? You?
I know some 18 year old men and women who have more logic and realistic sense in their heads than some who are 30 years older than them. Age does not equal common sense/experience/maturity.
quote:

  Would you want your daughter 19, moving in and becoming a slave to a man of 50?


If he's a decent human being and this is what they both want; why not. I would hope that I had raised ( and AM raising ) my own to be a mature, responsible adult.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 5:56:16 PM   
naomifai


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Problem with using age as a determining factor of when someone is "legal" or ready to become involved in any type of sexual relationship wether it is vanilla or not, is simply because it does not take into account the persons maturity and mental and emotional status. People grow up at different paces, while yes some are ready at 18 there are others that are not ready till thier 30 or even later.


Not sure if this is directed at me, but if so I argued the opposite of that - I said I didn't think 18 meant anything.

quote:

The only real issue is weather or not someone is mentally and emotionally mature enough to be capable of making the choice to enter into whatever type of lifestyle they choose.


Here's where I disagree. It's not only about the maturity of the individual. There are social factors, completely separate from the parties directly involved, that affect the individual and the relationship. They need to be explicitly recognized and addressed, not just glossed over because said individual is "very mature for her age."

(in reply to Masterofyoutoo)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:03:12 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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Hello robertolapiedra,
Excellent posts as always!  I asked the question for no other reason than to get some dialogue going.
I certainly agree that there is not really much difference if the man is 38, 46, or 54.
It does depend on the people and the reasons they get involved.
I would not want my son or daughter involved with someone twice their age, but ultimately
all you can do is give advice and stay close and connected.
Great food for thought

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:06:41 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naomifai

I'm a 20 year old submissive, and every relationship I've been in since I was 15 has had BDSM elements and been with men 7 - 20 years older than me. Personally, it fucked me up, destroyed my self-confidence, and drove away most of my friends who were my age. If I ever have a daughter, I wouldn't let her make the same mistakes. For me, it was not ok to get involved with older, established men when my life was still uncharted and my interests were amorphous - it forced me down a path that I wouldn't necessarily have chosen for myself. Just my 2 cents.


{{{{naomifai}}} your post brings tears to my eyes.  I am sorry things have not worked
out for you in the past.  You sound wiser and self-assurred and I believe that your confidence
is growing.  You are still so young, you have your life ahead of you and I think you are
strong and going to be just fine.
Thanks for posting!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:18:33 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

I have always been a submissive.  I'd have saved myself a lot of pain and anquish if, at the age of 22, I had become owned rather than gotten married to the man I did.  Had I been directed early in life (I was in search of that and without knowing I was "a submissive" I ended up with domineering bullies), I'd have been a lot happier.

Edited to clarify - the dominant's intention is everything here.  I would agree that to solely acquire a cute young trophy sub can be dangerous.  I didn't intend to negate your concern with my post.


But would you have had the wisdom to pick a good owner any better than you did a good husband?


I honestly don't know, Aquatic, good question.  I didn't have the wisdom to pick a good owner this last time around; by a fluke, he found me and touched my spirit.  It was luck/destiny/whatever you want to call it.  I merely had the good sense to see it was good and to work to keep it.

I do know I would have been better off in life if directed early by a competent dominant.  I'd have been more fulfilled than being in a vanilla relationship.  Problem is, I didn't know there was this world of D/s until my 30s.  I spent my life thinking I was sick and demented.....well, differently than I am now, lol.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:27:04 PM   
naomifai


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/27/2007
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quote:

A lot of it actually has to do with what society teaches little girls as they are growing up. We tend to foster them with the notion that the world is this perfect place, and that life will be nothing but peaches and cream, and that when the perfect guy comes along they will just know it and the guy will magically know the right things to do and say. And that the world will be this perfect place and they will live this fairy tale life.



Even more of an issue, in my opinion, is the assault of narratives and images supporting and sexualizing women's submission, from playing with Barbie, with her bondage-deformed feet, to reading Cosmo. Images encouraging women to succeed, dominate, take control, and that portray these things as exciting and sexy, are few and far between (once in a while, the Dominatrix archetype - paid to indulge men's fantasies - creeps up, but it's hardly the same). As a submissive woman, I'm acutely aware of the role sexist indoctrination, and I spend lots of time trying to assess the extent to which my desire and consent has been coopted. I think it's important that male Doms, particularly those in relationships where other power dynamics (age gap) come into play, take it seriously as well.

(in reply to Masterofyoutoo)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:29:44 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Look Mr. 40 year old "tough" guy, I have zero bugs up my ass.
I enjoy asking interesting questions.
So take your constant negativity and scat.
 . 


No thanks Ms. 41 year old "bitter" chick.
I enjoy asking pointed questions.
So take your unenforceable orders and stew over them,



Time to turn on block/ignore feature.
Buh bye old loser guy in played out red muscle Tshirt.
hahahahahaha

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:34:34 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naomifai

quote:

A lot of it actually has to do with what society teaches little girls as they are growing up. We tend to foster them with the notion that the world is this perfect place, and that life will be nothing but peaches and cream, and that when the perfect guy comes along they will just know it and the guy will magically know the right things to do and say. And that the world will be this perfect place and they will live this fairy tale life.



Even more of an issue, in my opinion, is the assault of narratives and images supporting and sexualizing women's submission, from playing with Barbie, with her bondage-deformed feet, to reading Cosmo. Images encouraging women to succeed, dominate, take control, and that portray these things as exciting and sexy, are few and far between (once in a while, the Dominatrix archetype - paid to indulge men's fantasies - creeps up, but it's hardly the same). As a submissive woman, I'm acutely aware of the role sexist indoctrination, and I spend lots of time trying to assess the extent to which my desire and consent has been coopted. I think it's important that male Doms, particularly those in relationships where other power dynamics (age gap) come into play, take it seriously as well.


naomifai, you sound so smart, introspective and on top of things.
You appear to be more mature than most your age.
You have learned a lot and over come a lot, and sound wise beyond your years.
Pat yourself on the back!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:36:17 PM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline
AS a owner of several younger slave ,I tend to agree with most that it could screw them up if the owner kept them isolated from people their on age,peers...Mine work in the vanilla world and have friends their own age.They do what other normal young women do shop ,go to movies and stay attached to their familys...IT depends on the owners and the maturity of slaves/subs..as always just the views of this ol; master...

_____________________________

US going to hell in a hand basket/

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:39:58 PM   
naomifai


Posts: 15
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

naomifai, you sound so smart, introspective and on top of things.
You appear to be more mature than most your age.
You have learned a lot and over come a lot, and sound wise beyond your years.
Pat yourself on the back!


I wish it were true. Truth is, I'm probably more of a mess now than I was at 15 - I'm just more aware of it now. That's progress for ya, I guess.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 6:43:57 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
My 2 cents
I have met women who could be with someone much older and be perfectly happy. I have met others who cannot handle serious relationships.  The issue is not the person, but the relationship they are in.  No one, no matter what age, will do well if they are cut off from the outside world and made to live for their partner. Young or old, they are going to get screwed up from that. The concern I have with some older men is that they wat the girls to revolve around them, and to leave the real world for them.  My pets are both younger.  They too have their own friends and their own diversions.  I encourage their schooling, and expect them to remain social.  I will not let them give in to the desire to give everything up and spend all their time focused on me.

Is she too young, no.  Is she too focused... maybe.

DV


_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 7:27:09 PM   
Travelino


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

What is too young to be a submissive?
I wonder about men in their 40's/50's/60's taking up with these tender young

women in their early 20's.
They are so young and impressionable, especially if they are only 18.
Would you want your daughter 19, moving in and becoming a slave to a man of 50?
Let's hear it.


Hi there, MzMia.

I would venture to guess that there is no real age-minimum for being dominant or submissive, some people of been in that disposition all of their natural life. Active in an alternate lifestyle as a submissive or dominant, well, that may be a different story. I reckon those that choose to check out the Lifestyle, have to start somewhere. In that case, whatever the legal age of consent is, in your area, may be the starting age, as there is a likelihood of sexual intercourse taking place at any one point in the relationship that develops. Would *I* choose to have sexual intercourse with any sort of teenager? no. I feel that I will leave the responsibility to someone else, the risks are to high for emotional/physical/mental scarring and I have no intention to be a part of that type of relationship, knowing what I know of human behavior and its implications. From what I have been able to gather, the dominant partner agrees to taking on the responsibility(to a certain extent) of the submissive partner, his/her mental/physical/emotional wellness. Knowingly ..... what is the term, here............. *hooking up*, with any teenager, or most 20-somthings, and you are much, MUCH older, is irresponsible, if you know better. IF, on the other hand, you know no better, go hard, you just may learn something. *I*, for one, know better.

I have no kids, yet, if I had a daughter, she would be brought up surrounded with respect, for herself and others. I believe I would trust her in her decisions, and hope that she would trust me in mine. She can date others as much as she wants, and on her 36th birthday, she will get the key to her chastity belt!! :-P

Would I want my 19yr old daughter moving in with someone(50 year old) and becoming a slave? I would likely protest strongly, make sure she knew what she was getting into, the consequences of possible actions, and let her know if she had any questions to feel to pose them to me.

Travelino

(the paragraphs above are pure speculation, as I have no kids, and have come across the opportunity(several times) to have a much, MUCH younger girl submit to me. Once again, I know better. I have yet to go over all of the responses to the original query, and will likely entertain/educate myself with the responses.)

~edited for stupidity!

< Message edited by Travelino -- 6/24/2007 8:24:37 PM >


_____________________________

~~"When the student is ready, the Master will appear."~~

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 7:32:23 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naomifai

quote:

What makes you believe you'll have more authority over your daughter's choice in men than your own mother did over yours?


No one intervened in any of my relationships - my parents fully supported them. At the very least, you could express disapproval, and if necessary show her the door while letting her know she's welcome whenever she's ended it.


Do you really think that will work?

The more my parents disapproved of an asshole the more I wanted it to work. Young, inexperienced and generally stupid teenaged girls tend to do stupid things and date assholes. There isn't a thing you can do it about except make sure that you are always there for them, that they can always come home and that you will always accept their collect calls. Their boyfriend may not be welcome, but they always are.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 7:37:28 PM   
BrutalMasterOne


Posts: 53
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

What is too young to be a submissive?
I wonder about men in their 40's/50's/60's taking up with these tender young

women in their early 20's.
They are so young and impressionable, especially if they are only 18.
Would you want your daughter 19, moving in and becoming a slave to a man of 50?
Let's hear it.
I live and work (as an old coot) in Hollyweird land. Here you will often times see older men with much younger women. I see no difference if the woman is submissive or not. I think that it is interesting to remember that it wasn't so long ago that the age of consent in many states was 12-14,and in most 16. So evidently an 18 year old is not too young for a relationship. As a parent I would think that they would caution their daughter but eventually the choice is hers.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 7:37:51 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: naomifai

quote:

You started dating men of 22+ when you were 15. You learn and "change" a lot in those 3 years between 15-18.


I think the legal line at 18 is pretty arbitrary. It's not like you hit some magic age and all of a sudden you're all grown up, ya know? For me, it was problematic to still be navigating school/college and family drama and be in a relationship with a strong power dynamic with man who's all set up in life. It's one thing to have consensual power exchange at home between people who'd be more or less equal outside, but it becomes something else entirely when there's already gaping disparity in the power dynamic due to social factors. It brings the whole consent thing into question, you know? Like to what extent are you actually consenting vs. internalizing the baggage of the society you're in (ie. when one person is unable to support themselves outside of the relationship and the other is, when one person's been uprooted from their support network due to an age-inappropriate relationship, in addition to any issues of sexism, racism, and classism that might be bearing down on the relationship as well)


Hello again. What I meant is that three years is a lot of "evolution" at age 15 to 18. I remember! Would "I" have been "involved" with older women at that age, it sure would have changed something in the maturing process.

I figure there is as much "change" from 15 to 18 as there is from 12 to 15. Being 18 is not only a "legal" thing. There is a reason why "society" decided that the legal age is 18 and not 15.

I personally have daugthers, I have a hard time believing that you did not see any red flags waving, and know the meaning of these flags. No one told you that what you were doing was "exceptional"? RL.

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 8:07:00 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
If a girl is sexually active and an older man takes her under his wing and teaches her that sex doesn't equal love and that sex can be beautiful, I have no problem with that.

If a dominant uses his powers of persuasion to seduce a woman and talk her into doing things using manipulation, even if she agrees, I don't like that regardless of age.

Anyone who tries to take a young person and form a long term bond with them is fooling themselves.  The chances of that succeeding are slim (before the four people on CM who pulled it off post, remember your unique experience doesn't undermine the average, people live to 115 to but most of us won't) as kids tend to change and grow a lot in those early years.

Personally, other than their nice little bodies, few young women hold much interest for me, never quite understood the attraction to having a long term relationship with them.

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 8:12:47 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrutalMasterOne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

What is too young to be a submissive?
I wonder about men in their 40's/50's/60's taking up with these tender young

women in their early 20's.
They are so young and impressionable, especially if they are only 18.
Would you want your daughter 19, moving in and becoming a slave to a man of 50?
Let's hear it.
I live and work (as an old coot) in Hollyweird land. Here you will often times see older men with much younger women. I see no difference if the woman is submissive or not. I think that it is interesting to remember that it wasn't so long ago that the age of consent in many states was 12-14,and in most 16. So evidently an 18 year old is not too young for a relationship. As a parent I would think that they would caution their daughter but eventually the choice is hers.


I am really enjoying these posts.
We have some Dominant gentlemen here.
Very interesting and food for thought.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to BrutalMasterOne)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 8:26:08 PM   
Travelino


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
Good point about the "friends" aspect of things, naomifai. I have seen it happen on both sides of the coin. Just one more risk to be taken under consideration when dealing with larger gaps-in-ages, of consenting adults.

Travelino

quote:

ORIGINAL: naomifai

I'm a 20 year old submissive, and every relationship I've been in since I was 15 has had BDSM elements and been with men 7 - 20 years older than me. Personally, it fucked me up, destroyed my self-confidence, and drove away most of my friends who were my age. If I ever have a daughter, I wouldn't let her make the same mistakes. For me, it was not ok to get involved with older, established men when my life was still uncharted and my interests were amorphous - it forced me down a path that I wouldn't necessarily have chosen for myself. Just my 2 cents.



_____________________________

~~"When the student is ready, the Master will appear."~~

(in reply to naomifai)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 8:32:28 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
Travelino? why do so many of the Dominant men seem sweeter than the so called
submissive males?
 ....sounds like my next thread!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/24/2007 8:35:35 PM >


_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Travelino)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Is she too young for you? - 6/24/2007 8:50:00 PM   
Travelino


Posts: 34
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meticulousgirl

OMFG here we go again

Ok i'm 22 and honestly really starting to get sick of these threads popping up out of nowhere.

i am a 24/7 slave, i am dead serious about what i do, and it's not just about the sex.
<< snipped for brevity >>


Here is an example of another risk that will have to be considered when considering a younger partner (dominant or submissive). Tact and grace. I have had the pleasure of meeting a fair amount of people in the Lifestyle, both dominant and submissive. No one has ever contradicted the statement: "the actions of a submissive is directly reflected onto the dominant."

Travelino

<< still going through the thread. May have to make some popcorn soon!! >>

_____________________________

~~"When the student is ready, the Master will appear."~~

(in reply to meticulousgirl)
Profile   Post #: 80
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