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Why are we wrong? - 6/25/2007 1:39:28 PM   
Phin


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The comment was made at a social I attended that that particular dom did not understand how one could switch. he seemed quite condesinding toward switches. Why are we looked upon with such negitive light in a community where understanding is preached so loudly?

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"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin
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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/25/2007 2:24:47 PM   
LadyOpinx


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First of all, it seems like a natural tendancy of some people to be condescending toward that which they don't understand.

Some people are so naturally one way or the other, they truly do not understand the experience of switching.  To others, switching violates the whole idea of D/s and Power Exchange. 

I am lucky to come from a community in Minneaposlis that stresses MKIOK--YKIOK (My Kink is OK--Your Kink is OK) and for the most part switches are always well accepted at munches and play parties and as part of the community.

I think it's kind of like the bi-sexual thing in the GLBT community---some people think you are going to "finally make up your mind" one day and be one or the other---so it invalidates what you are now. 

Some people just like variety.

Lady O.---- A Bisexual Switch !!!!




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"Every person, all the events in your life are there because you have drawn them there...What you choose to do with them is up to you." ~~~Richard Bach, "Illusions"

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/25/2007 4:38:34 PM   
pandoravampire


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I liken my sexuality, to going to a wonderful restaurante. I can have ANTHING on the menu, one of my friends is lactose intollerant, and half the menu dissappears for her, another is a vegan-so just a soy latte for him.
Whereas me?
that'll be starters, mains, a sweet, cheese n biscuits, oh and a full cream double shot of expresso with the brandy please!
Why are they so condescending?
Coz they do not accept that others can have a opinion that opposes their terms of reference? because they are jealous? 
Who gives a shit anyhow?
I think the person that was condescending toward your view point, shows lack of manners, a trait that you find in all walks of life. Im sure they are not someone you'd play with anyhow, so like a said, who gives a shit?
pandoravampire

< Message edited by pandoravampire -- 6/25/2007 4:43:09 PM >

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/25/2007 6:59:41 PM   
aparootsa


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For some it's that they don't understand, and for some it's that they can't understand - some doms and subs are just wired so strictly to one side or the other that they can't process wanting to be another way.  And I think that to some extent, that's valid.  I, for one, will never know the feeling of being a "true dom" or "true sub" because where they don't know what the other side of the coin is, I do, and that knowledge changes my experiences regardless of what role I play.  Kind of like once you've done a puzzle or read a mystery, you can't do it again for the first time.  In my mind that makes mine a richer experience, but for the others, any experience other than what they want is pollution and no more. That's how I think of the honestly unable to understand.  The rest fall into a couple categories: the hatin' kind (which I won't discuss) and the threatened.  The latter have most likely had a taste of the other side and disliked it and don't want to be reminded that they could possibly taste it again.  It causes them discomfort to see someone who was (and will again be) in their role filling the other one because it makes them consider what it's like, and they know they don't want that. And as a sign-off, there are probably some I missed, but these are those that come to mind right now.  Not necessarily bad people, and it's important to keep in mind that there are many who don't dislike us in the least.

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/25/2007 7:19:33 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

The comment was made at a social I attended that that particular dom did not understand how one could switch. he seemed quite condesinding toward switches. Why are we looked upon with such negitive light in a community where understanding is preached so loudly?


I will answer from my own experience (don't get angry.. you asked and I'm being honest from my perspective, which is a common one). for I am one who doesn't necessary look down on a switch, I just don't consider the practice to be more than party fun and games to the satisfaction of said switch with me being no more than a means to an end. 
 
When  interacting with a switch, I am aware that this is for his/her amusement.  They are submissive "for now" and  I am no more than a source of entertainment.  Next time it will be someone else to cater to his/her "dom" side.
 
I have played with switches a couple times and felt "used" afterward, so now I simply avoid them.
 
In my world, I am very devoted to my slave as he is to me.  If he felt he was unfulfilled "just being my slave", he'd be gone in a heartbeat because that would be the kind thing to do.
 
Everyone has needs and desires.. and some needs and desires just don't mesh with other's.  I don't feel that one should NOT switch, by all means, switch you little hearts out, but please be upfront about it.  I say this because, what if you are in "dom" mode one evening and a submissive (who is not a switch) you are playing with falls hard for you and you decide you want a collared slave.  Then she might see you (whom she believed to be a Dom) subbing to a Mistress, would she be entitled to be disillusioned?  Can she depend on you to perform as her dominant outside of play activities?  Could she bear watching her Master be on his knees and humiliated by a Domme or drinking her piss or even simply begging for a beating?

I guess you could say I see the practice much like the party girls (Paris and Lindsey).  They have a hell of a time but its all play.  They are there to see and be seen.
 
I hope this helps explain another viewpoint to your satisfaction.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 6/25/2007 7:33:32 PM >


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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 12:23:27 AM   
BlueAngelSub


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Every dominant looking for a sub has to compete with other M/F dominant,it's kinda like competing against their own nature. They can't BS you , you know the score and my be better at building a scene. They think most switches sit on the fence, we don't we watch to see who is better at doing what we need.

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 1:10:26 AM   
themischievous1


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With the right person I can be the epidemy of submission and wallow in completely surrendered bliss. Unfortunately, that kind of person is damn difficult to find in a world where possession of ethics, honor, and integrity are rare character traits; so I'm not sure how prevalent my submissive side will be in the future. It's really vulnerable being submissive and I'm a little tired of always being vulnerable.

Recently I began to accept that I've always been told I'm a natural dominant and that I spend the majority of each day being dominant. Truly that does come the most natural to me. I just haven't spent much time excercising that quality in the bedroom persay.

The real reason why people look down on switches from my perspective is because the bdsm masses generalize to every switch a sterotyped impression that a switch simply can't be taken seriously and that they don't know what they want. It's similar with bisexuality. There's a stereotype that goes along with bisexuality that a bisexual is going to be out there screwing men and women and can't be faithful to either gender. Not only is this not the case with all bisexuals but it's definitely not so with me. I can love either gender but be entirely faithful to the partner of my choosing and that's my desire as well. I'm truly monogamous, but that doesn't fit with the stereotype of bisexuals. With switches, I think the sterotypes are very similar. There's little respect and most don't understand how the capability for different modes of being can exist in the same person seriously and consistently, nor do they see that this person can be one or the other or even both and engage in a meaningful, sincere, even monogamous relationship.

Personally, I think I will probably make an excellent domme  should I find the right submissive to explore that role with, yet I can also revel in my submission should I actually discover a dom/domme who can be trusted -- problem is it's going to depend on who I fall in love with and am attracted to and compatible with that will determine how it all plays out in the future. And then it's entirely possible I may find an individual who desires both from me and while that will be unique and different for me, requiring a little getting used to, it certainly won't be boring.

It's not that I can't make up my mind about what I want and it's not that I'm not completely serious about one or the other. It's that I now believe I am honestly capable of enjoying and being in either role as the situation dictates.

One thing I really like about labeling myself switch more and more is that I don't have to listen to that absolute crap I used to hear when I sometimes acted more domme than sub, dependent on my mood, the situation, or whatever. Now I can just be who the hell I am and that can be aggressive, confident, demanding, strong, or whatever. I can be me and no one can say a damn thing about it! Finally there's real freedom!

Nothing wrong with the freedom to just be who you are, is there? In fact it's a breath of fresh air.

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 6:26:30 AM   
Tatshua


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For me it's a matter of personality. Though I am also at a point where I havent tried everything out enough to actualy say 100% surely what I concider myself as. I have tried out being a sub once. And I loved it. But when I'm a master it only feels 100% right with one of them. I want to try out being a sub, so at this point in my life, I concider myself a switch. But I think that it can change if I learn more and see what is right for me.

So... Yeah, I think switches are like bisexuals. Not always accepted even in a commutiy where acceptance is the thing mostly promoted.

LotusSong: I like your comment. Theres a difference in not understanding and accepting. A friend said this about homosexuals a few days ago "I admit that it can be a bit gross to see them kiss. But they are people too, and I accept them and respect them for who they are"

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 1:38:56 PM   
Phin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I hope this helps explain another viewpoint to your satisfaction.
Thank you for being brutally honest, I was trying to understand that prospective. You seem to be quite skilled at debating.  

I always have been honest about my switching and I always will be. I do disagree about us having O/one there only as entertainment/ amusement. I take my involvement in this lifestyle very seriously. I will not toss one aside just to go do something else.  But that is the wonderful thing about CM, we can disagree, state our opinions and not be pissed at the other person for their's.

The one thing you said that I did not care for is comparing switches to Paris Hilton.. I feel dirty, I think I am going to go take a shower now...

_____________________________

"Isn't wonderful when our bruises show what we hide in the back of our heads?"Fayetteville band, Nephilym

"He is my angel, my devil, my naughty boy, but above anything else my Master"My girl sin

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 2:47:40 PM   
angelicslaveMDF


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i did come on this site as a submissive first...then changed it to switch...because i felt some of the dumbdoms...who thought that every submissive should bow to them and such...were annoying...so i changed it more for "protection" of myself...so i could tell them...that i didnt feel submissive with them...i even had an online sub for myself...i never felt i did either of them a service, because i never felt it truly in my heart to be dominate with them...not that i didnt care for either of them...and now coming to be with Master and finding myself with the position of slave with Him...i realize why that was so then

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*thats my opinion and Master says i am entitled to it.*
angelicslaveMDF

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 4:14:51 PM   
sadomasokisti


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I will answer from my own experience (don't get angry.. you asked and I'm being honest from my perspective, which is a common one). for I am one who doesn't necessary look down on a switch, I just don't consider the practice to be more than party fun and games to the satisfaction of said switch with me being no more than a means to an end. 
 
When  interacting with a switch, I am aware that this is for his/her amusement.  They are submissive "for now" and  I am no more than a source of entertainment.  Next time it will be someone else to cater to his/her "dom" side.
 
I have played with switches a couple times and felt "used" afterward, so now I simply avoid them.
 
In my world, I am very devoted to my slave as he is to me.  If he felt he was unfulfilled "just being my slave", he'd be gone in a heartbeat because that would be the kind thing to do.
 
Everyone has needs and desires.. and some needs and desires just don't mesh with other's.  I don't feel that one should NOT switch, by all means, switch you little hearts out, but please be upfront about it.  I say this because, what if you are in "dom" mode one evening and a submissive (who is not a switch) you are playing with falls hard for you and you decide you want a collared slave.  Then she might see you (whom she believed to be a Dom) subbing to a Mistress, would she be entitled to be disillusioned?  Can she depend on you to perform as her dominant outside of play activities?  Could she bear watching her Master be on his knees and humiliated by a Domme or drinking her piss or even simply begging for a beating?

I guess you could say I see the practice much like the party girls (Paris and Lindsey).  They have a hell of a time but its all play.  They are there to see and be seen.
 
I hope this helps explain another viewpoint to your satisfaction.



I must say I disagree with your logic here. To me it seems that you are comparing apples and oranges. For one thing playing one time vs. long term relationship. You will most likely never get the same quality or intensity in the former vs. the latter.

Also many switches are happy in longtime relationships but you make it sound like they can't.


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Pain is good. Extreme pain is extremely good

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 7:33:43 PM   
Trampler


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I see it as this:

Our community may be openminded as a whole, BUT it is still made up of individuals, who bring in their own baggage,opinions and agendas.

I like that, I think I will use it as a a tag line

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I want to step ALL over you!

Our Community may be openminded as a whole, BUT it is made up of indivduals who bring in their own baggage,perceptions and agendas

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 7:39:40 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sadomasokisti


must say I disagree with your logic here. To me it seems that you are comparing apples and oranges. For one thing playing one time vs. long term relationship. You will most likely never get the same quality or intensity in the former vs. the latter.

Also many switches are happy in longtime relationships but you make it sound like they can't.



I don't know why switches take so much offense that they are not automatically everyone's cup of tea.
 
I think what turns me off the most is the obvious "It's all about ME" attitude that switching seems to be based on.  Read the posts and see how many I's,  Me's,  My's in each post.
 
Even I started out identifying as a switch.  After two sessions, I realized that feeling that I was crawling out of a hole when other's felt euphoria whjile all the while thinking how I would be doing the activity differently than what the doms did, was a pretty good indicator I was not a submissive :)
 
I never approached this all with the thought that I was going to cover all the bases or be Miss Popularity.
 
For those on here that are appalled that the "community" isn't supportive of switches, look around- NO ONE IDENTITY (dom, domme, submissive, slave) has total, 100% acceptance. Being a switch does not guarantee acceptance either.  It's not "ignorance or prejudice", it's preference.  You prefer switching, others prefer not to.  As far as I'm concerned, no harm no foul.
 
What upsets you the most?  The occasional rejection?  Heck, we've all encountered that at one time or another because of what we are.  It's called life.  There are no guarantees of TOTAL acceptance in  ANYTHING.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 6/26/2007 8:17:16 PM >


_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 8:19:24 PM   
LotusSong


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phin

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I hope this helps explain another viewpoint to your satisfaction.


The one thing you said that I did not care for is comparing switches to Paris Hilton.. I feel dirty, I think I am going to go take a shower now...



awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww... I didn't intend it to be that. Perhaps a poor example, but it just sorta popped into my head at the moment :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 9:11:37 PM   
sadomasokisti


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From: Iceland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong



I don't know why switches take so much offense that they are not automatically everyone's cup of tea.
 
I think what turns me off the most is the obvious "It's all about ME" attitude that switching seems to be based on.  Read the posts and see how many I's,  Me's,  My's in each post.
 
Even I started out identifying as a switch.  After two sessions, I realized that feeling that I was crawling out of a hole when other's felt euphoria whjile all the while thinking how I would be doing the activity differently than what the doms did, was a pretty good indicator I was not a submissive :)
 
I never approached this all with the thought that I was going to cover all the bases or be Miss Popularity.
 
For those on here that are appalled that the "community" isn't supportive of switches, look around- NO ONE IDENTITY (dom, domme, submissive, slave) has total, 100% acceptance. Being a switch does not guarantee acceptance either.  It's not "ignorance or prejudice", it's preference.  You prefer switching, others prefer not to.  As far as I'm concerned, no harm no foul.
 
What upsets you the most?  The occasional rejection?  Heck, we've all encountered that at one time or another because of what we are.  It's called life.  There are no guarantees of TOTAL acceptance in  ANYTHING.


Hmmm do you know all the switches?

I see nothing wrong with that if somebody dosen't like switches. At least I'm not offended by that. But when you state "It's all about ME" or that switching is all about opportunertism. That's when I get offended.

I haven't counted it specificelly but I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of "I's, Me's and My's" in the General board, the Poly board, Gorean board, Master board, Mistress board, Sub board, and the Health board.




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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 9:35:00 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sadomasokisti



Hmmm do you know all the switches?



My opinion wasn't formed in a vacuum, just a result of the switches I have encountered.  But not to worry,  I'm sure YOU are very special :)
 
Listen group. ..I'm not here to fight. A question was asked and I answered it based on my humble 13 years of expedience is all.  I'm not one to sugarcoat things.  If I had one piece of advise to give anyone entering this lifestyle, it's "Develop a thick skin"

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 11:11:08 PM   
themischievous1


Posts: 151
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From: San Antonio, Texas
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I just wanted to add that with this newfound identity, I'm realizing that Lotus song is right; switches need to develop a thick skin and a strong confidence in who we are as a group and as individuals. We should be proud, affirming, and not feel such a need to defend our identities. There is much intolerance and ignorance present in the world and in the BDSM lifestyle community online and off.  And so what? We can't change ignorance or foolish stereotypical notions people tend to want to cling to overnight.

I recommend we each be who we are proudly and enjoy the freedom within this identity we have chosen. Again, I think one of the greatest gifts being a switch has to offer is the fact that we are free to behave as we desire without being condemned in absolute ignorant fashion for not behaving as proper submissive or dominant people are expected to by the sub and dom guru "rule makers".

We're switches! We can have both dominant and submissive traits within us and no one can give us any grief about exhibiting any of these traits when we want to exhibit them. In other words, switch males can cry, or be super sensitive and no one can give them any crap about it yet they can still have a very strong dominant side. Switch females can be aggressive, strong, firm, and assertive and no one is going to say "Gosh, that isn't very submissive behavior, are you sure you're a sub?" How tiresome it is to be pressured in spoken or unspoken fashion to act according to what others in so called authority tell you submissive or dominant behavior should look like...
 
I don't know about anyone else but if I have to label myself as something, switch will work for me. And let's just remember that we don't have to prove anything to anyone, ya'll. Just be proud of who you are, however you're choosing to ID. 

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/26/2007 11:15:58 PM   
crouchingtigress


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From: Maui
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well said trampler!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trampler

I see it as this:

Our community may be openminded as a whole, BUT it is still made up of individuals, who bring in their own baggage,opinions and agendas.


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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 1:58:21 AM   
Suleiman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
I don't know why switches take so much offense that they are not automatically everyone's cup of tea.


I don't take offense at not being any one's cup of tea. Personally, I prefer coffee. I don't mind someone finding me an unsuitable partner because of my tastes and preferences. I do mind some idiot who has never met me making pronouncements about my preferences and implying that I am somehow deluded. For the most part I shrug it off. I'm happily married and have ample opportunity to play with others outside the bonds of marital sacriment. I suffer no impact from the opinions of fools.

Lotussong does provide some valid insight to one of the more common negative perceptions of switchdom. To an extent, I feel blessed to have come out into a community where bisexuality and switching were both practiced openly and freely, both at parties and in the context of a stable long-term relationship.

I find it strange that abandoning someone is thought of as the kind thing to do. If someone had sworn faith to me in that way, then discovered that they were unhappy being "just" my slave, I would take the time to help them discover what it was that they needed. If they needed to top, I would encourage that. It does not threaten me. If they wanted to top me, specifically, that could be arranged. I have no problems with it. I am, at my heart, intrisincally loyal. The person means more to me than the role they play. Everything else is negotiable. If my wife were to tell me that for whatever reason she never wanted to have sex with me again, I would be hurt, but I would not stop loving her, nor would I demand a dissolution of my marriage. I can't imagine sending someone away simply because they have discovered a new aspect to their personality. Then again, I don't really 'get' monosexuality.

I guess it's just apples and oranges. I've seen too many people try to convince me that I'm one thing or another. I'm happy being a switch. I'm happy being bisexual. I'm happy being non-monogamous. I'm happy being pagan. Poor, not so happy about, but you can't have everything.

_____________________________

Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: Why are we wrong? - 6/27/2007 9:07:00 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

I find it strange that abandoning someone is thought of as the kind thing to do. If someone had sworn faith to me in that way, then discovered that they were unhappy being "just" my slave, I would take the time to help them discover what it was that they needed. If they needed to top, I would encourage that. It does not threaten me. If they wanted to top me, specifically, that could be arranged. I have no problems with it. I am, at my heart, intrisincally loyal.


The reason I would let him go, is because I am a terrible submissive.  I do not give up control.  I can bottom but all the while my mind is racing on how I might do something differently. I'm watching him and observing what he is enjoying and planning what to do to him on our next session .  My mind is not on what he is doing to me, but on him and what my next Domme session will be for him. 
 
So, what I meant is,  if that is what he wants, he needs to find it elsewhere. It would be unkind to keep him in my collar and insist he choose one (SUB or DOM) over the other.  I'd be a poor partner.  I don't think submissively and I can't fake it (for me, I would HAVE to fake it- do not take this as me saying switches fake it).  Neither are a "role" for me.  I can't drop one and be another.  I'm a control freak, plain and simple.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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