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ORIGINAL: mythi

Call me crazy, but I've always found that supporting each other through outside trials strengthens a couple's bond enormously while creating adversity within the relationship drives a wedge.  I get enough stress in the outside world without my partner putting me through some manufactured paces to 'test' my loyalty or love.  

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Ypu are absolutely right. In no way, whatever so ever, am I saying that the relationship shouldnt have boundaries or that I dont respect boundaries.

However, when I was dating my ex submissive and I told her that she would be required to come with me to the gym to work out, she then made it a limit because she didnt like working out.

This is what brought that to a screeching end and its not how I work or what I want.

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
The point was more...if a slave spent one year doing nothing but blowjobs and domestic chores and then after that year, the entire authority dynamic were to come to a screeching halt and crumble because the Master wanted the slave to buy a car she didnt personally like...there would be a lot of room to speculate as to how strong that dynamic was in the first place.

I hope that makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: Aswad

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ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Am wondering and am not trying to hijack, but am wondering if the desire to push a slave comes more often with someone who identifies as sadistic or if it is a more "universal" trait of those who identify as Masters?

Define push...

The dominance element of things does not include pushing for me, per se.

Me caring, however,  involves me turning some demands into a slow, determined process with a definite push, in order to allow her to comply without damaging or unduly traumatizing her according to my standards and preferences. Like the bit about toilet service, which will take a fair bit of getting used to. I could "just do it", but I prefer to spend the time to make it feel second nature to both of us.

Testing, however, is something I do not approve of, although I don't care if others do it. My nephandi, however, is not tested, and will not be tested by anyone who expects to remain in our social circle. This practice, I think, has some element of emotional/mental sadism to it. Which is quite fine, but not something I get off on, and not something I let her suffer. Each to their own.

There is a definite push toward "perfection", however. That distant, unattainable but approachable goal is something I push myself toward, and I impose the same on others under my authority, whether at work, or at home, whether in terms of hobbies, work, or slavery.

Sadism may involve pushing, though. In the sense of pushing for a specific response.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
The point was more...if a slave spent one year doing nothing but blowjobs and domestic chores and then after that year, the entire authority dynamic were to come to a screeching halt and crumble because the Master wanted the slave to buy a car she didnt personally like...there would be a lot of room to speculate as to how strong that dynamic was in the first place.

I hope that makes sense.

Maybe for people who don't think it through.

If you do X for a fairly long time, if you go along life thinking that X is what things are going to be like, and X is what's expected of you and X works really well for everyone.

And then, suddenly, Y comes in.  Y is what you need to do.  Y is the whole new set of expectations and behaviors.

I think it would be very unusual for ANYONE not to have a negative reaction to that and need some adjustment time. 

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

BeingChewsie, you are correct, what makes one a slave is being owned. my comment was emotional and poorly worded...i should not have said "...what is it that makes them a slave at all?"...but rather "then what is it that makes one feel and know they are owned?" because imo, if a slave's life is all peaches and buttercups, completely devoid of any struggle, any hardship, any sacrifice...then while the slavery may be real (they are owned), it has not been tested and it has not been proven (to those within the union, not speaking of any outsiders).

This statement makes no sense either their enslavement is real or it isn't. There is enough crap that normal life throws into a relationship without having to make shit up. Live long enough and life will provide the struggle, the hardship, the sacrifice for both people in the relationship.

She doesn't know she is truly owned unless her life is hell and she wants to get out? Hogwash. How about if he creates and maintains an enviroment for her that is so incredible, wonderful and represents her best path through life, so much so that leaving him is unthinkable...and never lets that environment or that belief change in her..she is a literal slave of his making.

I know its is boring so not the story of O ...but it is slavery and ownership.

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and it may be true that some Masters and slaves have no such need to test or prove their ownership or slavery...but i would ask of these people, where is the mark of ownership, and more importantly, where is the growth?

I don't know what you mean by "mark of ownership" in the above, please explain

"Where is the growth?"....What if she learn to cook gourmet meals? or learns to love and know wine? or gets a degree or three? Writes a book? Loses 100lbs? Learns to Invest in real estate and becomes a milionaire with his help? or takes a up sewing and makes all the kids clothes?..and on and on and..the possiblities are endless.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So do you think a relationship is likely stronger if the slave is highly adaptable and can handle change and molding to you want without hardly any difficulty?

Or if the slave finds it very difficult and has to really challenge and endure? 

From your posts you seem to be saying both.

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So why does being a slave require some trial/sacrifice? What does that have to do with being enslaved? What makes them a slave is being owned. I have never understood where this idea comes from.

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ORIGINAL: nephandi
Perhaps an idea that everything worth doing or worth having including slavery require sacrifice. i know this is true for the things in my life i love and cherish.

i wish you well

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

So do you think a relationship is likely stronger if the slave is highly adaptable and can handle change and molding to you want without hardly any difficulty?

Or if the slave finds it very difficult and has to really challenge and endure? 

From your posts you seem to be saying both.

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ORIGINAL: nephandi
Do you not sacrifice anything at all? Not time, no money, no worry for their well being? No concern at all. Do you not give anything of yourelf to ahve theese pepole in your life?

i wish you well

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

all of the above...learning to be a gourmet cook...losing incredible amounts of weight...acquiring financial wealth, all done under his control and for his benefit are wonderful, beautiful...such learning is likely a part of most successful M/s dynamics. however such things cannot compare to the internal growth and self-awareness that can be brought about by great trials, imposed by the Master. yes of course life has its own trials, for the both of you, that is somthing different.

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also, i am not referring to anything "artificial" or contrived, as in some Master saying, "i want to prove that you are my property, therefore you must do this difficult thing," no, nothing that deliberate. it's more going about daily life, during the course of which the Master makes demands of and subjects his slaves to whatever he wills. sometimes these things are easy...buttering his toast in a particular way for instance. sometimes these things are difficult, like out of the blue being told that in a few minutes he will be dropping you off at the home of a sadistic Dominant (total stranger to you the slave), and you must serve him well, for the next 3, 4, 5 hours or so, without your Master's presence. the Master demands the same unhesitating obedience and acceptance in either situation. it is a sign of growth when the slave is able to achieve this, and a symbol (this is what i meant earlier by "mark") of his ownership that he can demand one as easily as the other.

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again, by no means am i saying that hardships and suffering are a necessity for slavery. we're already established that ownership is the only necessity for slavery. however for some (like myself) an environment of slavery where there is never any struggle or sacrifice can be extremely detrimental to the fabric of the dynamic, leading to complacency, selfishness, and other traits which are not complementary to slavery.

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie


Thank you. What if shit if is just worked out together and the slave just adapts, no fuss, no muss, what if nothing you ask of her presents a "trial" or seems like any kind of sacrifice...Do you keep upping the ante until you find something?

Seems silly to me.

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: nephandi
Perhaps an idea that everything worth doing or worth having including slavery require sacrifice. i know this is true for the things in my life i love and cherish.

i wish you well

I didn't sacrifice anything to have my nephews or my partner in my life- should I not consider them worth having?

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ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Would you find more pride and fulfillment in someone who made a sandwich for you or someone who quit smoking for you?

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ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

all of the above...learning to be a gourmet cook...losing incredible amounts of weight...acquiring financial wealth, all done under his control and for his benefit are wonderful, beautiful...such learning is likely a part of most successful M/s dynamics. however such things cannot compare to the internal growth and self-awareness that can be brought about by great trials, imposed by the Master. yes of course life has its own trials, for the both of you, that is somthing different.

What if nothing is a great trial though? Does he just keep upping the ante until he finds something? For what purpose..what if she seriously is absolutely obedient without being a sniveling brat about it?

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also, i am not referring to anything "artificial" or contrived, as in some Master saying, "i want to prove that you are my property, therefore you must do this difficult thing," no, nothing that deliberate. it's more going about daily life, during the course of which the Master makes demands of and subjects his slaves to whatever he wills. sometimes these things are easy...buttering his toast in a particular way for instance. sometimes these things are difficult, like out of the blue being told that in a few minutes he will be dropping you off at the home of a sadistic Dominant (total stranger to you the slave), and you must serve him well, for the next 3, 4, 5 hours or so, without your Master's presence. the Master demands the same unhesitating obedience and acceptance in either situation. it is a sign of growth when the slave is able to achieve this, and a symbol (this is what i meant earlier by "mark") of his ownership that he can demand one as easily as the other.

Uh OK...what if neither invokes her having a shit fit and finding it hard..what if she just goes and does it?

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again, by no means am i saying that hardships and suffering are a necessity for slavery. we're already established that ownership is the only necessity for slavery. however for some (like myself) an environment of slavery where there is never any struggle or sacrifice can be extremely detrimental to the fabric of the dynamic, leading to complacency, selfishness, and other traits which are not complementary to slavery.

OK...what if nothing he would ever do is a hardship to or for her? He is supposed to create suffering and sacrifice  for her by making her do things he doesn't want done so she doesn't -start- to feel selfish and complacent?....ummmm..if that is the case she already is very selfish.