RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 11:48:39 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

It is claimed that the similarity of the genotype across the racial divide in man in fact makes the existence of that divide meaningless and hence all humans are the same race.

The biological / anthropological distinctions were eloquently answered a few pages ago, seeks, by a qualified anthropologist who went into great lengths to discuss it. It was also discussed by a few other people from ethnographic and sociological perspectives by others.

Perhaps you should read the entire thread before posting questions which have previously been answered.

Sinergy

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 11:54:21 AM

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Careful, the last time I refered people to previous posts, I was cyberspanked something solid. I wouldn't wish that on you.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:03:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Careful, the last time I refered people to previous posts, I was cyberspanked something solid. I wouldn't wish that on you.

*grunts, scratches crotch, grabs kittenSol by the hair and drags her to his cave*

Cavemanergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:10:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

*grunts, scratches crotch, grabs kittenSol by the hair and drags her to his cave*

Cavemanergy

Dude, I made it quite clear I'm not into Gor! My hair, my hair.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:28:26 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Has any expert got an answer to the question posed on Page 24 post 478.

I will consider a response at some indeterminate later time, seeks. Now I am going to watch the series Heroes - its about mutants or sumpthing.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:38:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
It is claimed that the similarity of the genotype across the racial divide in man in fact makes the existence of that divide meaningless and hence all humans are the same race.

The biological / anthropological distinctions were eloquently answered a few pages ago, seeks, by a qualified anthropologist who went into great lengths to discuss it. It was also discussed by a few other people from ethnographic and sociological perspectives by others.
Perhaps you should read the entire thread before posting questions which have previously been answered.Sinergy

How about answer to the question posed rather than extracting half a quote ?
ie organisms having very similar genotypes may not be a different race in one discipline but may be a different species in another. Is that an invalid question ?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:39:22 PM

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Now throw this into the mix....

quote:

Surprising fossils dug up in Africa are creating messy kinks in the iconic straight line of human evolution with its knuckle-dragging ape and briefcase-carrying man

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070808/ap_on_sc/human_evolution

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:48:23 PM

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Did I not read some time ago that humans may not even have originated in Africa anyway ?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 12:57:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Did I not read some time ago that humans may not even have originated in Africa anyway ?

How do we know? Did you?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 1:00:59 PM

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quote:

Did I not read some time ago that humans may not even have originated in Africa anyway ?

Open ended hypotheticals are designed to cover up lack of knowledge...NO??

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 8/8/2007 1:16:25 PM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 1:02:18 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Fine, 'bring your bazongers with you; will they cope on god's clean earth without them?

Yeah, they'll cope - but it will be a terrible blow to mankind...

Peace
the.dark.

I agree, but you and I will not worry about that ;-)

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 1:15:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

So that will scratch a lot of topics off the talk list which means we cannot talk about the nazis, or the japs in world war 2 or the brits and the bostonn tea party, or even the americans and and their imperialism, hell forget discussing the good bad and indifferent of the romans or greeks and on and on.

I think it's different Real0ne.

When we talk of the British, Nazi Germany and the Americans, by and large we know it is the government and a handy proportion of followers; the implication being that it is not everyone.

When we talk of "The Jews", it implies all of the Jews; there is no Jewish government to separate the governors and the people.

Everyone is entitled to their say; there is no doubt about that. Let's be honest though, "The Jews" is usually followed by an anti-semitic comment; "The British" is not.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 1:28:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

How about answer to the question posed rather than extracting half a quote ?
ie organisms having very similar genotypes may not be a different race in one discipline but may be a different species in another. Is that an invalid question ?

I apologize for my erroneous cut and paste earlier.

Your question is a rather odd question.

"Can a race in one discipline be a different species in another question?"

If the question I think you are trying to ask is can different disciplines have different definitions of "race," then you would need to go back and review the thread to read about the anthropological, social, ethnographic, cultural, biological, etc., definitions of race to find your answer.

I suspect the answer is probably a qualified "yes," which makes it an emotionally charged discussion because all these different intellectual disciplines have a different definition for the word "race." Throw in the bigotted or prejudiced sub-groups of humanity adding their own personal definitions to the mix, and the intellectual discourse goes downhill in a big hurry.

What allows for an intelligent discussion is for people to agree on a definition to use and then discuss it within the context of that definition, but as you can see reviewing the sub vs. slave or Dominant vs. Master threads or whatever, people rarely want to give up their own personal opinions in order to find a working definition to discuss the issue.

Sinergy

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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 2:59:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
If it amuses you to indulge in circular reasoning, argumentem ad hominem, and other sophomoric logical fallacies in order to 'win' an imaginary argument, congratulations... you are now in possession of the same skill set as high school debate club members, tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists, and squirrels in cages.

Oooo...I think someone struck a nerve.

It's true that this thread does a poor job of recognizing true brilliance.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 3:07:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Did I not read some time ago that humans may not even have originated in Africa anyway ?

Open ended hypotheticals are designed to cover up lack of knowledge...NO??

Or to get a comment from, in this case, someone who read the same thing. lol.
Your posts in this thread confuse me Alumbrado, damned if I can figure out which side your are on lol again

Whatsmore I am pretty certain I did read it, but at my age....who knows for sure !

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 8/8/2007 3:08:55 PM >

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 3:40:32 PM

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Well, just two things. (I don't really want to go too deeply into this because it's clear that you're convinced of your views.)

First, you don't know what they were like when the Egyptians wrote about them. You weren't there. For that matter, you don't even know that the Egyptians were talking about the same people we call Mbuti. It's just an assumption.

Second, they have been trading for centuries with nearby villagers. The culture of those villagers has obviously changed dramatically over the past 6,000 years, and so, naturally, has the relationship between the Mbuti and the outside world. That right there is a crucial element of culture. And it has changed over time.

For that matter, the Mbuti are not "pre-Stone Age," no matter what Colin Turnbull may have said. They use bows and arrows. Human beings did not use bows and arrows before the Stone Age. And they trade for iron goods. Obviously, no one used iron goods before the Stone Age. "Pre-Stone Age" is one of those imprecise but arresting phrases that people like to use in order to make their statements seem more sensational than they really are. Think about it--what does "pre-Stone Age" mean? All human beings everywhere use tools of some kind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

So THAT'S the "6000-year-old tribe" you've been talking about.

Well, the idea that their culture hasn't changed in 6000 years (which is what you were arguing in some other thread) is absurd.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Consider the Mbuti....more than 6000 years, isolated gene pool of limited size...what do you make of that?

Since they were pre stone age when the ancient Egyptians first wrote about them 6000 years ago and Colin Turnbull, who studied them in the late twentieth century says that they are still pre stone age what do you find absurd?

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 4:04:45 PM

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After 26 pages isn't this thread past its sell by date. If we didn't have an imprecise and partial knowledge of genetics, would we even be discussing the idea of there being any substantial difference between peoples? People with superficial physical differences appear to have been fucking each other for thousands of years and producing fertile offspring which I think is the test for creatures of the same race.

To be honest when I see some of the beauties that pass my window, I don't care if they are of the same race or not but then, I've always been a pervert.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 5:24:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, just two things. (I don't really want to go too deeply into this because it's clear that you're convinced of your views.)

First, you don't know what they were like when the Egyptians wrote about them. You weren't there. For that matter, you don't even know that the Egyptians were talking about the same people we call Mbuti. It's just an assumption.
Since you have not read what the ancient Egyptians wrote you have no basis for this assumption.

Second, they have been trading for centuries with nearby villagers. The culture of those villagers has obviously changed dramatically over the past 6,000 years, and so, naturally, has the relationship between the Mbuti and the outside world. That right there is a crucial element of culture. And it has changed over time.
Really...how so? What precisely has changed in their culture?

For that matter, the Mbuti are not "pre-Stone Age," no matter what Colin Turnbull may have said.
Do you not find it presumptuous to dismiss Dr. Turnbull's studies in this area without reading them

They use bows and arrows. Human beings did not use bows and arrows before the Stone Age.
This is opinion on your part and not grounded in fact.

And they trade for iron goods. Obviously, no one used iron goods before the Stone Age.
The Mbuti as a group do not. Some individuals do.
"Pre-Stone Age" is one of those imprecise but arresting phrases that people like to use in order to make their statements seem more sensational than they really are.
Stone age cultures fabricate and use stone tools....the mbuti do not. They use sharp sticks to hunt elephants and vine nets to trap animals. This is referred to by anthropologist as pre stone age.

Think about it--what does "pre-Stone Age" mean? All human beings everywhere use tools of some kind.
Using tools fabricated from stone make the culture stone age.
Using tools fabricated from copper alloys make the culture bronze age.
Using tools fabricated from iron alloys make the culture iron age.
this culture does not use stone, coper alloys or iron alloys to fabricate tools; this by definition makes them pre stone age.
Before being so dismissive perhaps you might want to read something about this culture a little more in depth than Wiki the consensus encyclopedia.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 9:12:03 PM

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Thompson, you don't know what I've read; in fact, it has become painfully apparent that I've read a lot more than you have. Unless you're talking about dinosaurs, "pre-Stone Age" isn't a term that makes any sense. Human beings evolved in the Stone Age. Maybe you mean OLD Stone Age? Honestly, I don't even know what you're talking about.

As I said, you're convinced of your views, and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But unless you were there 6,000 years ago, I don't understand how you can claim to know that their culture hasn't changed.

Enjoy.

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RE: There isn't such a thing as 'races' in humanity. - 8/8/2007 10:08:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Thompson, you don't know what I've read; in fact, it has become painfully apparent that I've read a lot more than you have. Unless you're talking about dinosaurs, "pre-Stone Age" isn't a term that makes any sense. Human beings evolved in the Stone Age. Maybe you mean OLD Stone Age? Honestly, I don't even know what you're talking about.

As I said, you're convinced of your views, and I'm not going to try to change your mind. But unless you were there 6,000 years ago, I don't understand how you can claim to know that their culture hasn't changed.

Enjoy.

Lordandmaster:
You are absolutely correct...I do not know what you have read but it is pretty clear what you have not read.
thompson

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