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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 7:32:58 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
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Status: offline 		Yeah, that is what my slave says until I start to go further than my normal routene.   lol

Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to Aswad)
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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 7:35:27 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

For those who claim to have "no limits" in a literal sense: does that include kidnapping, murder and other illegal activities?


It's been discussed to death on the forums before, if you'll pardon the pun. Some draw the line at those things, some do not. Hence, I always ask, not because I would, but for the simple reason that I don't know that I won't get knocked over my head and turn into some kind of Hannibal Lector psycho, and I want to know up front whether to teach her to run/fight, or to fetch the Chianti with glasses for two.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 7:37:47 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

well, i would call that codependency not consensual slavery, but sure...go for it...i can't stop you...


And I'd call that pop psych. Along with a good dose of prejudice.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to chellekitty)
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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 7:50:00 AM   
rollinonward05


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin

I'm wondering if anyone else is thinking Bernardo/Homolka.I


I was thinking of those very two people in this context too. Saw the movie Karla and there was a world more to what they did then what showed in this movie. Read more than one book about these two.

Anway those two bring these questions to mind
Would you set your sister up for rape and murder for your Master?
Would you help kidnap young girls for his pleasure and use them sexually yourself?

I agree with others here that have said that until you are actually face to face with say death at the hands of your Master imo too, you don't really know how you would react. It is called self preservation.
rollin

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 8:01:36 AM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
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Status: offline 		When i think of the term limit i think of the body, or in the case of D/s bdsm etc the mind hitting  a wall and not being able to go any further.  i was a runner in my 20's and i used to time how fast i could run in a mile.  i wanted to continually break my old record but there came a point i just couldn't do it any faster, my body found it's limit. 

i can understand and appreciate what Mercnbeth said but suppose beth as she was walked near what she thought was a cliff simply collapsed out of fear - wouldn't that be crossing beth's limits. i used that example because i am extremely afraid of heights, i mean i can't even use a ladder lol... so if i was blindfolded and taken to a cliff (even if i only thought it was a cliff) i might have all the good intentions in the world to do so because i had no limits and wanted to please my Master but i am sure adrenaline would kick in and other body chemicals which would produce fear and i would probably collapse or faint.  Wouldn't this be my limit?  Would it be fair to my dom not to tell him this as i am sure he's not going to be very happy when he sees me collapse and maybe even angry at me that i did not tell him. 

i just don't think you know how your body is going to react when you come up against an experience you never had before.  You're intention might be to forge through but your body or mind might just shut down.  i know prop is sincere in how she feels but if her Master ever did a jack nickolson on her and axed the door down screaming "Master's home" she really has no idea how she is going to react, the survival instinct is quite fierce. We will never know unless it is tested so it's a mute point really. 

The only way no limits makes sense to me is when it is used in the context of saying the sub takes on the doms limits as they are so compatible anyway or that the sub trusts the dom so much that she knows he would never do anything to harm her - in which case there are unspoken limits, she just realizes she doesn't have to verbalize them or impose them. 

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 8:18:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

i can understand and appreciate what Mercnbeth said but suppose beth as she was walked near what she thought was a cliff simply collapsed out of fear - wouldn't that be crossing beth's limits. i used that example because i am extremely afraid of heights, i mean i can't even use a ladder lol... so if i was blindfolded and taken to a cliff (even if i only thought it was a cliff) i might have all the good intentions in the world to do so because i had no limits and wanted to please my Master but i am sure adrenaline would kick in and other body chemicals which would produce fear and i would probably collapse or faint.  Wouldn't this be my limit?  Would it be fair to my dom not to tell him this as i am sure he's not going to be very happy when he sees me collapse and maybe even angry at me that i did not tell him.


Driving to Folsom, I'm taking beth and giving two other woman a ride to the Street Fair. One a sub, not yet living with her Dom, the other a slave - married and living with her Master. I decided that in the spirit of the day, all the woman should remove their tops for the ride into SF. beth immediate complies. The submissive claims that public  nudity is outside her limits, and the married slave says no.

Which person is in a 'no limit' relationship? They all are. But only beth is in a 'no limits' relationship with me. The submissive would love to remove her top, but says her Dom doesn't want her ever to do so in public. He says he controls who sees her naked top. The other slave says she would love to, but not without permission of her Master.

If you are in a relationship where your Master knows your fear of heights and it is so pronounced that the thought of being near a cliff scares you into collapsing and you can't trust him not to do so - that represents a mistake that you made. If your communication and discussion didn't fully disclose all 'traumatic' fears, real or imagined, again that's a self generated problem. Being 'naked' isn't only a physical state it's emotional and mental as well. If you've kept on even a thong string bikini, you shouldn't be surprised if the first time that part of you is exposed to the sun that it gets burned.

(in reply to velvetears)
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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 8:30:42 AM   
Stephann


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax


Greetings Mercnbeth
Trust, and therefore 'limits', only works where trust is absolute
I like this; it gave me a new perspective on which to think of. Thank you.
jaxon


Merc,

Excellent points all round.

It gave me a moment to think that (within a relationship vice 'playparty' situation) that limits are usually imposed early on before trust has been firmly established.  It's a way of saying "I'm learning to trust you, and if you do these things it will probably destroy my trust in you."  It's saying "these activities will seriously hurt me."  It's my believe that in a healthy long term, healthy relationship, the desire for the dominant or sadist isn't to inflict serious hurt or damage.  Once sincere and deserved trust has been established, limits seem moot.  If the dominant wanted to go there, that'd be something previously discussed.  If it wasn't, he wasn't worthy of trust in the first place (and probably would have demonstrated that fact early on.)

Stephan


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Men: Find a Woman here

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 8:31:33 AM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		i agree trust and full exposure to your dom is essential if you are going to claim to be his no limits slave.  If the slave leaves out any information at all it could have disasterous effects. 

In the example i used above with height if you knew beth had this extreme fear, and beth trusted you implicitly there is a huge responsibility on your part to protect that so you would more than likely never take her to the edge of the cliff, on the other hand beths level of trust might be such that you could and she would just know she wasn't in danger. But aren't we just dancing around the semantics of a term?  Cliffs or heights are limits. 

The example you gave with the three woman i agree - a slave can be no limits and generally they mean only in a devoted relationship to her one. i have read posts where slaves claim otherwise but i have to wonder if it IS wise.

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 8:58:25 AM   
UR2Badored


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Status: offline 		Okay I said this on page 5--If anyone answered it, I am sorry I have overlooked it.  I asked:
in an established relationship, Does no longer having a need for explicit limits equate a "NO LIMITS" status?
 
I see these as two separate things (by that I dont mean I think it is that way or the highway but that is my current view and I would like feedback please).........does anyone agree or disagree?  I really would like to hear what other's think of this. 
 
 

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/17/2007 9:12:01 AM >

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:05:46 AM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		Sorry i cannot answer that for you because i see the term limits in a different context than perhaps others are intending it.  Limit means cannot possibly go any further, has reached the end, won't go anymore.  So in my understanding of the term - every human being on earth  has limits, whether they want to acknowledge them or not is another issue.

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:08:54 AM   
UR2Badored


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Sorry i cannot answer that for you because i see the term limits in a different context than perhaps others are intending it.  Limit means cannot possibly go any further, has reached the end, won't go anymore.  So in my understanding of the term - every human being on earth  has limits, whether they want to acknowledge them or not is another issue.


Thank you........You did absolutely answered it for me because I wanted someone elses honest thoughts on the matter........Again thank you very much and to everyone who have posted their thoughts on this thread. 

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/17/2007 9:11:05 AM >

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:18:40 AM   
Bobkgin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Sorry i cannot answer that for you because i see the term limits in a different context than perhaps others are intending it.  Limit means cannot possibly go any further, has reached the end, won't go anymore.  So in my understanding of the term - every human being on earth  has limits, whether they want to acknowledge them or not is another issue.


To which I will add that the contributions to this thread from sub/slaves demonstrates they've accepted the limits of their d/m, and their d/m's limits include limits necessary to sustain life.



_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:24:38 AM   
UR2Badored


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


To which I will add that the contributions to this thread from sub/slaves demonstrates they've accepted the limits of their d/m, and their d/m's limits include limits necessary to sustain life.


Thanks Bobkgin
This seems to echo throughout this thread and you phrased it quite nicely.  However, wouldnt that fall under the relationship has been established enough to no longer need limits? 

The use of limits is no longer needed in an established relationship.  I am so sorry if I seem repetitive, I know how I define such but really want to get the feel for what others think

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/17/2007 9:56:21 AM >

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A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:31:18 AM   
jaxnsax


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Greetings Ur2badored
Let me see. Outside of a long term relationship ( as in only causal play, scening etc ); I have to know a person well enough to trust them before I will let them tie me up and use a cane or a whip on me. ( just using those two for examples )
Inside a relationship, the same would apply.
I have been in both kinds of relationships in the past, and neither, I felt, had more trust than the other. I simply do not play or begin relationships with people that I do not trust.
So, for me, it would not matter if I was going into a relationship, or already in a relationship.
jaxon

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~Chinese Proverb~

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 9:47:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

But aren't we just dancing around the semantics of a term?  Cliffs or heights are limits. 
No.
Cliffs and/or heights aren't the 'limit' - death is. Taking her to the edge may be part of the dynamic, commonly referred to as 'edge play'. Being 'in danger' or believing that you are 'in danger' is not excluded from 'no limits'. The only requirement is that the even though it may beat fast, the heart will go on beating after the experience. It also includes consideration, appreciation, and acceptance of consequence, not only for the event but for the attempt.

quote:

there is a huge responsibility on your part 
Now this statement is an absolute. It is similarly absolute when it comes to a submissive. If you are so enamored about the idea of being in a relationship that you only disclose things you believe the other person wants to hear - you've abdicated your responsibility and you'll never know the level of trust needed, because you've never given it. The "I'll tell him later." or "I'll worry about that if/when it comes up" are great avoidance of reality tactics and great opportunities down the road for failure.

You see it all the time on the threads. "My partner wants another..." Commonly you see a disclosure that indeed he/she always indicated that 'others' may be included or that the opportunity for adding others was an exciting possibility. Yet when the reality comes complaint, or worse, assigning guilt and/or resentment when what was disclosed as possibility is reality. When you accept the truth in theory there should be nothing but enthusiasm for the experience in reality. If not, how can any representation be taken as fact if truth is only accepted on a theoretical basis and resented when its represented by reality?

Silent failure is more pervasive and no less a set up for failure. If, going into a relationship, a person sees a box of rock climbing gear in a closet next to the bag of BDSM 'toys' and you don't use the opportunity to point out your fear of heights, you don't trust. Should the day come when he/she wants to share the thrill of cliff and/or rock climbing and you're in tears on the drive going toward the cliff - he/she will realize not only of your fear of heights, but that they also couldn't trust you. It may be a year later, but potentially every fundamental aspect of trust is not tinged with a shade of doubt.

In that event - what difference does it make to represent if you have limits or not? That's why it isn't only a semantic argument.

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 10:03:14 AM   
UR2Badored


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jaxnsax

Greetings Ur2badored
 I simply do not play or begin relationships with people that I do not trust.
So, for me, it would not matter if I was going into a relationship, or already in a relationship.
jaxon


I definitely understand your position with trusting a person prior to proceeding.  However, so would your answer be no to my question (Does no longer having a need for explicit limits equate a "NO LIMITS" status?)

edited: geez out of three sentences......you'd think one be comprehensible.....NOT

< Message edited by UR2Badored -- 9/17/2007 10:19:53 AM >

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 10:03:19 AM   
Bobkgin


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From: Kawarthas, Ontario, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UR2Badored

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bobkgin


To which I will add that the contributions to this thread from sub/slaves demonstrates they've accepted the limits of their d/m, and their d/m's limits include limits necessary to sustain life.


Thanks Bobkgin
This seems to echo throughout this thread and you phrased it quite nicely.  However, wouldnt that fall under the relationship has been established enough to longer need limits? 

The use of limits is no longer needed in an established relationship.  I am so sorry if I seem repetitive, I know how I define such but really want to get the feel for what others think


Regardless of how long I am in a relationship, my limits remain in force.

In my previous relationship, my slave accepted my limits as her own. There were times when she encouraged me to exceed them, but my limits are primarily for the benefit of my slave's health and well-being, and I refused to be pushed past them.

In relationships prior to that there were submissives who had a set of limits more inhibiting than my own. I accepted them provisionally, allowing her to grow more comfortable within the relationship and leaving it to her to decide when she no longer needed them.

They dropped their limits eventually when they realized they were safe within my limits.


_____________________________

When all is said and done, what will you regret?

That you never really lived?

Or there was so much living left to do?

For those interested: pics and poetry have been added to my profile.

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 10:09:23 AM   
UR2Badored


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Status: offline 		Bobkgin,
So there are limits in play under your care albeit yours.  I see what you mean.  Thank you for your thorough responses. 

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A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way
Mark Twain

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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 11:17:01 AM   
chellekitty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

well, i would call that codependency not consensual slavery, but sure...go for it...i can't stop you...


And I'd call that pop psych. Along with a good dose of prejudice.

Health,
al-Aswad.



perhaps i should have quantified that with, if i were to do that, i would be reverting to previous codependent behaviors that i have worked very hard to get past with my therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists and it would not work for me...is it prejudiced, yes...did i tell her to not do it, save yourself, you're being abused or any of the normal things people say....no....i have never claimed to be tolerant or nonjudgemental...but everyone has the right to do what they want to do as long as they do it with both eyes open and informed consent...


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RE: No Limits: How far would you go? - 9/17/2007 3:41:19 PM   
Cyntilating


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Status: offline 		..after 3 years into our relationship, and having experienced many of, what I thought were my fears/boundaries ( soft limits some call them ) fade away>>>  One evening I was trying to voice to Master, the depths of my feelings> and I made the comment that I didnt think there was anything he could ask of me that I wouldnt do.....
He decided to take that opportunity to instill some reality and a much needed lesson> that still stays with me..
 He said ( with a very serious tone and look in his eyes)" Ohh I can think of something"
...thinking to myself..hmmmm...what would that possibly be?
He said  " tell you to bring me your daughter"
 
man oh man did I snap out of it!...
 
now, I know him and I know he would never ask that of me...
but the point being..> it is not that I dont have limits on how much I would give to him or do to please him>
but limits do exist...because HE has limits..
 
Merc said it so well : ) about the absolute trust.
 
   the trust is absolute in him and in his personal boundaries/morals...and so my "need to think of limits" is no longer nessa.
He would never let harm or injury come to me..
He would never compromise our mutual safety and security.
I know these things without a doubt.
 
 

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to chellekitty)
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