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RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:15:27 PM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Sorry? Last time I checked I do exist, quite vividly, thank you.

Looking at your profile I see hardly any indication of a slave nature. You say that you are a submissive, but I see hardly any indication of that either. Perhaps you are an ordinary human, which was my first reply before I edited my post and changed it.

And this is the net result of all this "unique slave trait" and "unique submissive trait" garbage. People like Jon Jacobs and these clowns running around proclaiming to be able to divine who is and isn't "really" a slave or submissive.

I thought that JJ had passed to the other side, but evidently he has found several bodies no one was using.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:19:18 PM

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Havent read all the replies. But noone breaks me. I submit or i dont. You break me, im useless, well unless thats what you want, a brain dead piece of meat.

(in reply to Rover)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:21:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Sorry? Last time I checked I do exist, quite vividly, thank you.

Looking at your profile I see hardly any indication of a slave nature. You say that you are a submissive, but I see hardly any indication of that either. Perhaps you are an ordinary human, which was my first reply before I edited my post and changed it.

That is interesting that you have deduced that from reading my profile. Of course, being a complete internet stranger who has no knowledge of me or anything that relates to me, you really have no place to make a judgement on what I call myself, slave or submissive.

I am what I say and think I am, not what some random stranger on a forum thinks. But if we are trading perceptions vs. reality, I could say that from reading your profile where you fully admit you have no experience in this lifestyle, that you are perhaps, a very sad, and ordinary human who spends time trying to over-intellectualize something that should in reality, be experienced.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 10/24/2007 4:24:05 PM >

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:22:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

Indeed, and the differences I've outlined are generally irrelevant since most women possess some traits from each side, but in the manner of breaking it is absolutely vital to be clear, attempt it with the wrong person and you'll end up with either a mental and emotional ruin or an empty husk.

It's also useful, from my perspective since it allows me to more accurately and intuitively control and compell what I desire from a woman. Think of it as.. hmm.. a fine meal at a resteraunt - you'll enjoy the meal none the less regardless of which wine you pick to have with it, but if you pick exactly the right wine for that meal it becomes transcendent.

I like how you put that last line. :)

I like, nay I am driven, to know a woman intimately to the exposure of every thing she is, every last facet and feature, till her nature - her mind , heart and soul are uttely naked and splendid before me, and to know that with the slightest touch on her mind, I can make her belly quiver and the heat of her sex trickle down her legs.

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:25:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

Indeed, and the differences I've outlined are generally irrelevant since most women possess some traits from each side, but in the manner of breaking it is absolutely vital to be clear, attempt it with the wrong person and you'll end up with either a mental and emotional ruin or an empty husk.

It's also useful, from my perspective since it allows me to more accurately and intuitively control and compell what I desire from a woman. Think of it as.. hmm.. a fine meal at a resteraunt - you'll enjoy the meal none the less regardless of which wine you pick to have with it, but if you pick exactly the right wine for that meal it becomes transcendent.

I like how you put that last line. :)

I like, nay I am driven, to know a woman intimately to the exposure of every thing she is, every last facet and feature, till her nature - her mind , heart and soul are uttely naked and splendid before me, and to know that with the slightest touch on her mind, I can make her belly quiver and the heat of her sex trickle down her legs.

I would venture to say that most women who are either a slave, a submissive or even a bit of both, would agree with that wholeheartedly. :)

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:33:48 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
That is interesting that you have deduced that from reading my profile. Of course, being a complete internet stranger who has no knowledge of me or anything that relates to me, you really have no place to make a judgement on what I call myself, slave or submissive.

Where did I make a judgment? I am inclined to agree with your description of yourself as having a somewhat submissive nature. Why do you object to someone agreeing with you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am what I say and think I am, not what some random stranger on a forum thinks. But if we are trading perceptions vs. reality, I could say that from reading your profile that you are perhaps, a very sad, and ordinary human who spends time trying to over-intellectualize something that should in reality, be experienced.

I am very sad, yes, but I am far from ordinary. I guess that you are not a convert...

< Message edited by Rule -- 10/24/2007 4:35:03 PM >

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:36:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
That is interesting that you have deduced that from reading my profile. Of course, being a complete internet stranger who has no knowledge of me or anything that relates to me, you really have no place to make a judgement on what I call myself, slave or submissive.

Where did I make a judgment? I am inclined to agree with your description of yourself as having a somewhat submissive nature. Why do you object to someone agreeing with you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I am what I say and think I am, not what some random stranger on a forum thinks. But if we are trading perceptions vs. reality, I could say that from reading your profile that you are perhaps, a very sad, and ordinary human who spends time trying to over-intellectualize something that should in reality, be experienced.

I am very sad, yes, but I am far from ordinary. I guess that you are not a convert...

You made a judgement by implying that I might be "ordinary". To me that is judgemental since if you knew me, you would know how far from the truth that is.

As far as being a convert, a convert to what?

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 4:40:43 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
You made a judgement by implying that I might be "ordinary". To me that is judgemental since if you knew me, you would know how far from the truth that is.

I qualified it with "perhaps"; that is not a definitive conclusion. In any case in your profile you scarcely give any indication of being extraordinary; it is merely a list of kinks and preferences.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
As far as being a convert, a convert to what?

Read the thread.

< Message edited by Rule -- 10/24/2007 4:43:48 PM >

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 5:13:50 PM

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Need to distinguish between "ordinary" as in "plain, vanilla, unappealing" and "ordinary" as in "the more common configurations of the human psyche". I'm assuming Rule is refering to the later, not the former.

(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/24/2007 6:56:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Sorry? Last time I checked I do exist, quite vividly, thank you.

Looking at your profile I see hardly any indication of a slave nature. You say that you are a submissive, but I see hardly any indication of that either. Perhaps you are an ordinary human, which was my first reply before I edited my post and changed it.

And after reading your profile, I am wondering to myself...

What exactly is this man basing his "theories" on that he is pontificating about since you have zero real time experience?

Are these byproduct of reading Internet websites? Or perhaps just some crap you thought up on the can?

Its really interesting to watch you hurl insults along side this discussion, but not actually contributing much of anything relevant to it, besides feeding off of what another person is saying.

It would be nice to see some sources or articles or credentials in psychology to support these conjectures (And no, boisterously proclaiming one's self to be a super-genius doesn't count. You should understand that being a super-genius)

Any hard studies or research data? Ph.D, Masters or Bachelor's degree in Psychology?

I've done quite a lot of research on M/S and WIITWD (as well as some actual experince to boot) and I have yet to come across any kind of theory of this sort by any accredited expert in the scene, outside of silly fantasy drivel.

Do you have anything at all to substantiate any of this as anything more than your personal conjecture? Or should I direct that question to SixFootMaster since you are simply feeding off his writings to make yourself seem really smart?

As if somehow trying to create a psychological profile of the "true" slave and submissive wants silly enough, telling someone they are neither and just an ordinary human being really takes the cake.

I hope to one day meet one of these super slaves I have heard you ramble on about like a pompous expert in several threads now.

And yet people wonder why I have such growing animosity for Internet BDSM discussions...

_____________________________

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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(in reply to Rule)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 3:07:13 AM

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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster

Need to distinguish between "ordinary" as in "plain, vanilla, unappealing" and "ordinary" as in "the more common configurations of the human psyche". I'm assuming Rule is refering to the later, not the former.

SFM
[trying to work around the "slave vs sub" controversy]

I asked Alebera a question a little while back, and she has either left the thread or doesn't want to answer me..
could you perhaps talk about what the broken slave is capable of afterward??

this was my question:

[a question Aelebera:
re: your Will
in dealing with others, the public, friends, family, employers, ( anyone other than your master) do you still use your will?
have your opinions and express them? make basic choices for yourself? a strong will generally indicates a good dose of self-esteem> do you feel you now have a sense of yourself as before ( your conditioning ) or has that gone away? how different?

I really am trying to understand.

I am reading what others are saying "breaking" accomplishes and, so far, I do not see any difference in their outcome compared to my experience/relationship> which for me was accomplished with no breaking me down in order to build me back up to his desires and expectations. ]

~~~~~~~~

are your slaves, once broken, able to function with others on her own and with her own will/sense of self/self-control ?

thanks in advance for your imput.

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 3:29:30 AM

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The broken true slave becomes a true extension of their Master's will - that is, his will fully supplants her own. This is close to but not quite the same as the idea of total submission (other end of the spectrum). As mentioned earlier the three components are the ego, ratio, and soul - the ego is the part that willfully performs actions, the do-er part. In the breaking process, this part is eliminated and what remains is the ability to think and comprehend, and to analyse, and the passions, hopes, and dreams.

All interactions with any person, including the Master are done as to the Master's will, if he has given or shown no instruction for a particular path then the slave will reason one out from what she knows and understands but she does this entirely by the fact that she can do no other, she has no will of her own, everything she does is by and through the power of his will. Is this dangerous? Hell yes! if he forbids her food, she will not eat, no matter how her body craves it. If he denies her water, she will not drink, no matter her thirst. She cannot, her Master has willed it so and it is culmination of who she is to obey that. She lives, breathes, and exists by his will.

This does not mean that she is without personality or her own inner nature that existed before the transformation, that remains intact, she is still individual in her personality.

In regards to functioning with others - she behaves as her Master wills. She has of sense of self, but that sense of self is tightly bound into the core understanding in her that she is her Master's slave and nothing more. In regards to self-control, it is examplary.

In the movie Secretary, with the lovely Maggie, at the culmination she is commanded to sit with her hands on the desk, and to not move. She does so, even though her bodily functions proceed as normal. While not the same situation, and it is entirely by her will in the movie, it should provide some insight into the broken slave.

< Message edited by SixFootMaster -- 10/25/2007 3:34:58 AM >

(in reply to Cyntilating)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 3:43:01 AM

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Your response resonated with me. It's what i not only desire, but crave, however it is very difficult to do that as a woman raised to be "everything" today. However i'm trying, but i hope the Dom's out there understand our mothers and sisters pretty much trained us not submit ever. So for those of us that are trying, and make mistakes or need a bit of patience, know our intent is true. But we are fighting against a very large wave, and we not only need to figure out how to go with it, but we have to explain it, and that, for some of us may be harder than fighting the wave at all......

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 6:47:39 AM

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your ideas for rebuilding a slave that has been "broken" are incredibly stupid and unhealthy and God, i hope no one takes you seriously....and to quote post #67 in this thread....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: sarahL

what does breaking a sub/slave entail?

If one doesn't know, one is not qualified to do so and then rebuild her.
Hence it seems less than ideal to go into the details of the harsher senses of the word.

Health,
al-Aswad.

< Message edited by chellekitty -- 10/25/2007 7:18:05 AM >

_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to SixFootMaster)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 7:16:39 AM

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Joined: 10/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty
did we watch the same movie? she is not commanded...she decides to do that until he understands that she will not "just go away"

Actually, she is commanded into the postion that she takes at Mr. Grey's desk. But after she voluntarily sits at the desk.

Video Clip

< Message edited by TheChauvinist -- 10/25/2007 7:57:49 AM >

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 7:58:56 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
What exactly is this man basing his "theories" on that he is pontificating about since you have zero real time experience?

From this I deduce that you will deny the existence of gravity until you experience it yourself. Intrepid people do so most effectively by jumping out of an airplane at great height without the benefit of a parachute. I am rather apathic, so I hope that you will forgive me while I sit on my chair and wait for others to measure the splotch that you make on the ground and to bring me the results.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Its really interesting to watch you hurl insults along side this discussion

I beg your pardon. Whom have I insulted?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
, but not actually contributing much of anything relevant to it,

I am of two minds about this. On the one hand I think that people ought to be educated. On the other hand - and for me ethically decisive - I think that if one cannot arrive at these truths themselves, they are not qualified to know about them. Actually I think that I have said too much about the subject already.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
besides feeding off of what another person is saying.
Or should I direct that question to SixFootMaster since you are simply feeding off his writings to make yourself seem really smart?

Me feeding off of SFM? If you cannot hear me laugh, it is because SFM is bigger and is laughing louder. In actual fact SFM rather surprised me and at first I wondered whether he was merely quoting and rephrasing me. Somewhat later I concluded that he had independently come to rather similar conclusions as I. When he is using my terminology, as he says in his post 68, then how am I feeding off of his writings?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SixFootMaster
I'm going to borrow from Rule here, since the terminology is simpler and more precise:

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
I've done quite a lot of research on M/S and WIITWD (as well as some actual experince to boot) and I have yet to come across any kind of theory of this sort by any accredited expert in the scene, outside of silly fantasy drivel.

Am I supposed to be impressed by your research?

I am not. On the other hand I am impressed by SFM and that is not because of his size.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Do you have anything at all to substantiate any of this as anything more than your personal conjecture?

Wouldn't you like to know.

< Message edited by Rule -- 10/25/2007 8:30:00 AM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 8:30:19 AM

RRafe

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Rule.

Those who can-do.

Those who can't-talk about it.

_____________________________

I seem to be some wierd combination of Ren and Stimpy

(in reply to Rule)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 2:37:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

your ideas for rebuilding a slave that has been "broken" are incredibly stupid and unhealthy and God, i hope no one takes you seriously....and to quote post #67 in this thread....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: sarahL

what does breaking a sub/slave entail?

If one doesn't know, one is not qualified to do so and then rebuild her.
Hence it seems less than ideal to go into the details of the harsher senses of the word.

Health,
al-Aswad.

Unhealthy for who, Chelle? Are you now the arbitar of what is in finality good or bad for someone? When it comes down to its roots, how someone chooses to live their life, and what they need to be truly and completely fulfilled is not always "healthy" in a cultural sense. Playing with knives? Not healthy. Suspension from ropes? Not healthy. Breath play? Not healthy. Deep submission to another? Not healthy. Society tells us that pretty much everything we do is not healthy on some level. Noone really questions though what they mean by "healthy".

Having lived in many differnet places within Australia, I've been exposed to communities and lifestyles that some would definitely deem "not healthy" - The indigienous family living deep in rural Australia, under several sheets of corrugated iron - no home, no electricty, no doctors, no dentists, no television, no advertising. Yet these people were the happiest and most content individuals I have met in my life. While it's the concept of the "noble savage" it's one that I've witnessed in person.

On the other side of the topic - do you drink? do you smoke?

Edited to add: Editing your post to remove an error rather than simply saying "woops, sorry, my bad" is a little bit dishonest.

< Message edited by SixFootMaster -- 10/25/2007 2:41:05 PM >

(in reply to chellekitty)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 3:09:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RRafe

Rule.

Those who can-do.

Those who can't-talk about it.

And those who can't talk about it become Pro_____! Because some fool is paying them for a fantasy they want which does not require thinking just doing!

_____________________________

Every story has two sides , much like a coin and neither one is totally perfect.
If it doesn't float your boat, then don't get in the water~!

(in reply to RRafe)

RE: Breaking a sub/slave? - 10/25/2007 3:10:58 PM

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Joined: 11/14/2005
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What's the point to breaking something thats already what I want and need her to be? If it aint broke dont fix it. If it works fine dont break it. I have had to break a few old habits that my slave brought with her and break some negatibve thought patterns also. But no need to break her spirit or any other part of her. Shes not a wild mustang that needs to have the wildness broke first just to get a good ride out of her and make her useful. She rides just fine the way she is and I get all the use out of her that I need.

(in reply to wisteriaV)

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