quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

No, I'm saying that I DO NOT USE SAFEWORDS because I see them as commands.

The response to that was a bunch of people saying "no they are not commands your reasoning for doing what you do is wrong"

I see them as commands, ergo I do not use them.  Are you saying that I am forbidden from viewing them as a command and must therefore change the dynamic of my own relationship or else find new reasoning to not use them?  Because that's really what I'm hearing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Irish - that's because she's not reasoning with me.  She's reasoning with the words she is putting in my mouth.

If she took my words at face value, and read "I do what I want for my reasons, you do what you want for your reasons" just once, out of the twenty times I've written it, we might get somewhere.

I'm not saying anyone has to have my motivations.  I'm just saying that my motivations for what I do are as valid as her motivations for what she does.  Is that really so wrong?

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Well yes, but I didn't feel we were all saying the same thing.  I felt like I was saying one thing, they were saying a second thing, and they were accusing me of saying a third thing.  My posts weren't to convince anyone of anything besides the fact that I was saying thing #1 and not thing #3

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

you however, have continued to insist that what you say is what others should be following... you think you don't come across in that way... but you do. It's not what you are saying hun, it's HOW you are saying it. Perhaps you should go back and do nothing but look at your words and think how you respond to yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

See, my big thing with safewords aren't that they're commands (I don't think they are exactly) but in part for the same underlying reason.  They present the submissive with a big red 'EXIT' button.  "The sword itself incites to violence"  Instead of being in the headspace I want her to be, she's thinking about how much more can she takes till she pulls the plug (even if she never does.)  It's a distraction that suggests that Big Red Exit Button has more authority than I do (even if I'm the one who chooses to stop or not.)  By requiring communication and that she trust me, I might not play nearly as hard as I would like; but it's like doing a 20' highwire act without a net, instead of an 80' highwire act with a net.  The 20' might not seem as dramatic, but it's obviously more dangerous.  Personally, I don't like playing with that net; it suggests that our interaction is fantasy.  When I'm using a knife on my girl, the activities we're involved in are most certainly not fantasy.

My final concern with safewords, are that they can seem to provide a false sense of security.  The Dominant thinks "well, she hasn't safeworded, so I guess I can keep going."  The submissive thinks "I don't want to dissappoint him; I probably should safeword, but I want him to be proud of how much I can take."  The focus ceases to be on how intense and enjoyable the scene is, and becomes a 'how far can this game of chicken go?'  Removing the safeword mechanic, and relying on normal communication eliminates all of this from the headspace.

Just my thoughts.

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Why are your beliefs about my feelings valid, yet my beliefs about yours are invalid?

Edited to add - my beliefs are about a safeword. An inanimate, intangible concept.  Not your relationship.  Not you.  Just about a concept - I think the concept implies "x" and you think the concept implies "y" - I'm not telling you that you have to view it as x, I'm just saying that I do view it as x.  Your relationship is not my concern.

You insist safewords are commands, by this insistence you are stating that those of us that use them or have them are commanding our dominants... that is making a value judgment about our submission in my mind... and that IS invalid because you have been repeatedly told otherwise by many people... and you are telling us the intention behind the words that we say, only we know what we intend by how we communicate... NOT YOU... thinking you do is just wrong headed and it is not valid... clear as mud?

quote:

First of all, your breathing can be an exceptionally inaccurate method of determining what is happening (unless you cease breathing, which is almost universally regarded as a problem).