quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

ORIGINAL: xoxi

quote:


If a safeword doesn't proscribe a particular course of action then what does it do?

Hopefully whatever the folks involved have agreed it would do. No guarantees though.

quote:

You can say that it's a signal - but I would say it's still a signal that must be responded to.

This is a leap I cannot make with you.

quote:

If it's a signal that can be responded to or ignored at the top's whim, I would argue it isn't very useful. 

Another leap. I'm not with you.

quote:

If the bottom says 'red' to signal "I have information" and the top replies "yeah, so? Keep your information to yourself, I don't want to hear it" then what good does it do?  How is that even a safeword?

Similarly, if the bottom says, "crickey! there's a croc chewing my ass" he could just as easily say "I don't want to hear it." However, if they have agreed, whether it be a safeword or the croc thing or simply saying, "sweet one, my vagina has ripped in two" it is a communication, not an imperative.

quote:

Yet if someone entered into a relationship that works but doesn't follow any of the premises disclosed; it would not make it or their arguments in support, invalid.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MystressDream

Replying to nobody in particular here...
 
408 posts.... most of the last 100 from two people who have never actually had a real time relationship??
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

At this point, all your arguments have pretty much been proven invalid through the course of logical discussion and while might provide valid reason for your own little way in your own little Idaho, they hold exactly zero air or substance on the mantle of reality.

M.R,
"Proven invalid"? She's representing her relationship. You choose to call a specific aspect of it "invalid". Why is it so important that everyone be in step with you and the rest of the band regarding this position? She's made some good arguments and so have others on the other side. Even if someone has changed whatever they do in their relationship it doesn't, and shouldn't, invalidate anyone who doesn't. .

quote:


She has conviction, confidence, and strength; and, unlike some, is speaking from being in a relationship. One thing you should keep in mind - it works for her, while in a relationship; something you seek to have someday. The use of safe-words and her Master's believe in their inappropriateness is between her and him. Having that position myself, I don't consider you the ultimate authority on its validity. Besides, its valid for them, for me, and while I'm at it. anyone who makes a decision to submit to me.

quote:


I'll stipulate that, having never met xoxi or her Master, she could be on-line only, never been with her Master in real time, and thinks a flogger requires batteries. For that matter, to you who never met us, beth can be a 250 pound bald guy. But she and her arguments aren't invalid just on your say so, or because other "what if's..." have been created. What if that were your slave? 

quote:

11 pages of watching you and Merc try and restrain this discussion to the narrow minded parameters of your own creations will exhaust anyone's patience.

quote:

You said this 10 pages ago. Are you yet convinced that xoxi doesn't need or want to be "in step" in any "band"?

Being so sure and positive of your way - I would think that you wouldn't need 10 more pages to prove your argument is "valid" as compared to xoxi. Is it that important to convert?

quote:


Maybe once in a relationship you'd consider the perspective that anything that defines it makes it valid for at least as long as the relationship lasts. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: xoxi

Just to be clear, I have met my previous 2 Dominants and did not use safewords with them, for the exact same reason.

If you're attempting to claim my view is invalid because I haven't lived it, that won't hold much weight.  I have lived it.  I intend to live it again.

quote:

Its an intellectual exercise for me and I've been enjoying stretching my brain over this.
Given how adamant and absolute you have been, well...hey pot...I'm kettle.

quote:

Personally, Merc, given that you have no idea what my relationship status is, my experience is, and how many play partners I have or anyone else's on these boards, 

quote:

Probably as important as it is for you to adamantly tell everyone what exactly they are doing according to the assurance of your way...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

<snip> I was not in a relationship for a much longer time than you've been on the planet. It doesn't speak to your ability to be in one. 

However, if you were speaking from a current relationship not yet updated in your profile, disregard the comment. I apologize if you took it as an insult or "below the belt". To me its the same as saying I'm bald. How can I be insulted? It's a fact. I don't consider myself weaker, or less a person than those not so follicle impaired.  
<snip>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

However, if you were speaking from a current relationship not yet updated in your profile, disregard the comment. I apologize if you took it as an insult or "below the belt". To me its the same as saying I'm bald. How can I be insulted? It's a fact. I don't consider myself weaker, or less a person than those not so follicle impaired.  

quote:


The big difference is never once was "wrong" or "invalid" used to make any of my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

I based my point upon the representation given in your profile and the profile of xoxi. It doesn't account for anything other than a perspective referencing point. It was speaking to the point of validity. Her argument's validity comes from being a relationship. When I checked your argument did not have the ability to do the same. Neither did John's when a similar reference point was made. I believe it is a critical difference, again - subject to disagreement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

<snip> I was not in a relationship for a much longer time than you've been on the planet. It doesn't speak to your ability to be in one. 

However, if you were speaking from a current relationship not yet updated in your profile, disregard the comment. I apologize if you took it as an insult or "below the belt". To me its the same as saying I'm bald. How can I be insulted? It's a fact. I don't consider myself weaker, or less a person than those not so follicle impaired.  
<snip>

did you have to go there Merc? could you have not left out the age references?
oh and MadRabbit....you committed a cardinal sin...you expected logic on these boards...you can appreciate it when you find it, but never expect it...

quote:

As a reminder, I thought I would mention there is a few questions and scenarios from Rover, that you have not responded to. One might assume you have been "ignoring" them in an attempt to avoid having to admit fault.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

If there's something not clear, I'm sure John would have pointed it out.

• You and beth are driving along one fine sunny California morning and about to pass an intersection.  Although you're driving, you fail to notice the car approaching from the side and obviously about to run the red light and t-bone your car.  But beth sees it clearly.  Beth yells "STOP" (or "Red" if you prefer) as you enter the intersection (because it is her door about to be hit) giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction.
  
•    
  
• You've just finished a wonderful dinner that beth cooked, and sit down in your favorite chair to relax.  As you're about to light a cigar, beth notices the odor of gas and realizes that the gas starter on the fireplace has been left on.  Beth yells "STOP!!" (or "Red" if you prefer) before you light the match (because you are insufficiently insured) giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction.
  
• 
  
• You're headed to work one morning and beth, being the loving girl that she is, walks you out to the car and kisses you through the open driver's side window.  As you shift the car into reverse and look over your shoulder to back out of the driveway, beth notices that your child is sitting behind the car playing jacks, too low for you to see through the back window.  Beth yells "STOP!!" (or "Red" if you prefer) before you run over your child giving dominance to her and making you submissive to her direction (and because she knows that, practically speaking, our decisions in life have quite a few more consequences than theoretical questions on a bulletin board).  

quote:

ORIGINAL: ModeratorEleven

If things persist, all expenses paid vacations will be distributed to those involved.

XI

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: chellekitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

<snip> I was not in a relationship for a much longer time than you've been on the planet. It doesn't speak to your ability to be in one. 

However, if you were speaking from a current relationship not yet updated in your profile, disregard the comment. I apologize if you took it as an insult or "below the belt". To me its the same as saying I'm bald. How can I be insulted? It's a fact. I don't consider myself weaker, or less a person than those not so follicle impaired.  
<snip>

did you have to go there Merc? could you have not left out the age references?
oh and MadRabbit....you committed a cardinal sin...you expected logic on these boards...you can appreciate it when you find it, but never expect it...

chelle,
I don't know what you are taking from that, but it was an effort to say I'm old - as well as bald. Both facts I'm afraid. I envy the years that MR has ahead of him, however, don't envy the search process. Frankly it sucks. The purpose was that I didn't want MR to think it made a difference that he wasn't in a relationship only that he may have a different perspective if he was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

On the lighter side of things, this thread in and of itself adds some weight to the argument that safewords by themselves have no control or power over dominants as many people have used safewords in an attempt to stop this thread, but amazingly, it still keeps on going without hinderance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

John,
Thought I address these as not being in the context of scene which was the topic at hand. If in consideration of 24/7, the position I said before is I believe beth's protecting my property including herself. I think a scene where red = stop is not comparable to running over a child, but in all those instances beth's providing information that I am under no obligation to follow. I chose to follow or not and, unlike a scene where beth bears the result of the consequence, suffer the consequences. 

quote:


I think trust is the most important thing. I trust her to provide information, I'm not required to act upon it.

quote:


My very pointed point is if you replace that level of trust with a word, and make be dominant over the scene, you aren't safe. It's pointed to the most common usage of this tool. New people who don't know each other and who do have RED=STOP as the sole definition.

quote:



If this doesn't make sense I believe it. This post has absolutely no edit, spell-check or re-read done to it. I need to go now and pick her up from the airport. Let's see - I bought the ticket and sent her to visit her ailing mom. I took her to the airport and now I'm picking her up. I am her slave?

quote:


Yes I am a slave, but not to her. I'm a slave to the relationship, and all the driving and picking up is all part of my service to it. What do I get out of it? Well, let's just say I'm planning a long evening and taking the day off tomorrow. My payment pennies - the value and the ROI is priceless!