RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=-

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RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:08:30 PM

Posts: 2464
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

I think that the gray area lies in the fact that each TPE is going to be a little different.   What one Dom requires of his sumbissive may not be what another Dom may require.

Thank you, I am glad someone understands.

Yes so far I agree with everything the OP has said and I understand exactly what he is saying.   I am simply pointing out what I feel the gray areas are.   And what I mean by what one Dom requires may be---"squeakers you will have my dinner on the table at six", where as another Dom might say, "Since you get home two hours after me squeakers, I will do it".

Yes but the OP doesn't get what some are telling him. His TPE with his slave may not be the same as ours. We have total power exchange but he doesn't get that some do it differently. Master has total transfer of power, he is saying because I don't agree with his definition we don't. That's the part that gets me going.

I just don't think there can be varied definitions for a TPE---it is an exchange.   The exchange is this---the submissive gives up her control and He takes that control.

The TPE isn't the question is how others live it. It isn't role playing to us and we live it. TPE is straightforward, how people live it is not. You don't live my relationship and don't know how things work. He has total control, what he says goes, His will is mine and his limits are mine.. But when people try to force a way on others, I have a problem with that. Master and I have a TPE relationship and no one should have to feel like they have to justify their way of life to strangers on a forum.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Squeakers)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:15:04 PM

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Joined: 10/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Total submission...... yes I have that in my relationship with my Master. It goes BOTH ways.

It does. I give total power exchange to Master but it isn't as one sided as the OP likes to think. One just doesn't give up power. It is an exchange not a dictatorship. Has to be a mutual thing between Master and slave.

Wait, because I don't agree with the thoughts here, in a TPE, it is not always an equal exchange because one has to lead. Only one can be the leader and be in control. Sometimes, I think things are not always fair and sometimes I do not always agree BUT---I know in the TPE who is in charge and I ALWAYS must trust his judgement even if I do not agree or think it is fair. If I am unable to trust his judgment than for me, I have no damn business accepting the power exchange or even being involved in it.

I didn't say it was an equal exchange. I said it was a mutual relationship. A Master cannot take control of a slave that does not want to give it. Big difference to me in equal and mutual. Why would you be involved with someone in the first place if you questioned their judgment?

And the OP said that in the very beginning.

quote:

If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss.

quote:

As Master I am in control and I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break.

I think if I am reading and understanding his meanings correctly---people should not just just in and say okay Let's have a TPE. It's not at all like the velcro collar. Two people come together and exchange ideas. A TPE takes times. She says, "Well I am not into wearing diapers." He says, "I would not request my submissive to." There it's no longer a limit because it's not a place either of them want to venture. Or she says she isn't into wearing diapers and he says, "Well there are times when I would request that would you be willing to wear them." She says no. If it is something that he completely requires he will move on. The point is these 'limit's if you will are completely negotiated PRIOR to the TPE not after.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:26:34 PM

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Sweetnursebbw. It is not definately Role play and I doubt very much that the OP is into the fantasy end or role play. He makes complete sense to me. Honestly with the right Dominant---I HAVE no limits. Because he knows me completely well enough that he is NEVER going to ask me to do things that I simply was not able to do---and to be honest most of the limits I have are MORAL. I would know he would not 'harm' me example cutting off my little finger. On that same note, no the idea of diapers does not thrill be but if he decided to put me in diapers, it would not be negotiated, I'd be running my ass to the drug store for adult diapers. I personally do not feel that a TPE is something that can be taken lightly. It's not something that can be just decided, personally it takes a very long time aka years before one commits to that and ever D/s or M/s relation is NOT a TPE. It's different and I think that is the point the OP is trying to make.

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:27:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Total submission...... yes I have that in my relationship with my Master. It goes BOTH ways.

It does. I give total power exchange to Master but it isn't as one sided as the OP likes to think. One just doesn't give up power. It is an exchange not a dictatorship. Has to be a mutual thing between Master and slave.

   Wait, because I don't agree with the thoughts here, in a TPE, it is not always an equal exchange because one has to lead.   Only one can be the leader and be in control. Sometimes, I think things are not always fair and sometimes I do not always agree BUT---I know in the TPE who is in charge and I ALWAYS must trust his judgement even if I do not agree or think it is fair.   If I am unable to trust his judgment than for me, I have no damn business accepting the power exchange or even being involved in it.

I didn't say it was an equal exchange. I said it was a mutual relationship. A Master cannot take control of a slave that does not want to give it. Big difference to me in equal and mutual. Why would you be involved with someone in the first place if you questioned their judgment?

And the OP said that in the very beginning.
quote:

If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss.

quote:

As Master I am in control and I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break.
    I think if I am reading and understanding his meanings correctly---people should not just just in and say okay Let's have a TPE.   It's not at all like the velcro collar.   Two people come together and exchange ideas.   A TPE takes times.   She says, "Well I am not into wearing diapers."   He says, "I would not request my submissive to."   There it's no longer a limit because it's not a place either of them want to venture.   Or she says she isn't into wearing diapers and he says, "Well there are times when I would request that would you be willing to wear them."   She says no. If it is something that he completely requires he will move on.   The point is these 'limit's if you will are completely negotiated PRIOR to the TPE not after.

It might be symantics, but I have always interpreted TPE = total power exchange as : my control/will/power has been given to Master and the exchange is that, in return > I am empowered, through my submission to his authority and by serving his will.

Something certainly is returned to me in return for my submission...certainly feels that way ..and for me, it feels like empowerment and strength.....ie power so > power exchange.
A different kind of power but still power.

If it were not an exchange of some sort...and something didn't come back to the "giver"> eventually the giver would become weakened and empty....some kind of rejuvination has to happen with all kinds of total release.

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Squeakers)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:36:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

Total submission...... yes I have that in my relationship with my Master. It goes BOTH ways.

It does. I give total power exchange to Master but it isn't as one sided as the OP likes to think. One just doesn't give up power. It is an exchange not a dictatorship. Has to be a mutual thing between Master and slave.

   Wait, because I don't agree with the thoughts here, in a TPE, it is not always an equal exchange because one has to lead.   Only one can be the leader and be in control. Sometimes, I think things are not always fair and sometimes I do not always agree BUT---I know in the TPE who is in charge and I ALWAYS must trust his judgement even if I do not agree or think it is fair.   If I am unable to trust his judgment than for me, I have no damn business accepting the power exchange or even being involved in it.

I didn't say it was an equal exchange. I said it was a mutual relationship. A Master cannot take control of a slave that does not want to give it. Big difference to me in equal and mutual. Why would you be involved with someone in the first place if you questioned their judgment?

And the OP said that in the very beginning.
quote:

If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss.

quote:

As Master I am in control and I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break.
    I think if I am reading and understanding his meanings correctly---people should not just just in and say okay Let's have a TPE.   It's not at all like the velcro collar.   Two people come together and exchange ideas.   A TPE takes times.   She says, "Well I am not into wearing diapers."   He says, "I would not request my submissive to."   There it's no longer a limit because it's not a place either of them want to venture.   Or she says she isn't into wearing diapers and he says, "Well there are times when I would request that would you be willing to wear them."   She says no. If it is something that he completely requires he will move on.   The point is these 'limit's if you will are completely negotiated PRIOR to the TPE not after.

It might be symantics, but I have always interpreted TPE = total power exchange as : my control/will/power has been given to Master and the exchange is that, in return > I am empowered, through my submission to his authority and by serving his will.

Something certainly is returned to me in return for my submission...certainly feels that way ..and for me, it feels like empowerment and strength.....ie power   so > power exchange.
A different kind of power but still power.

If it were not an exchange of some sort...and something didn't come back to the "giver"> eventually the giver would become weakened and empty....some kind of rejuvination has to happen with all kinds of total release.

YES---exactly---don't you feel power in doing something you never thought you could do? Doesn't if feel great to take just one more stroke of the cane when your body says no, your head says no and then the cane hits and you realize you took it anyways? He's controlling the cane, not your head not your body and He just sort of knows you can take one more and it feels awesome.

(in reply to Cyntilating)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:41:56 PM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I so do not get slavery. I am not saying it does not exist... My biggest issue is the reduction of a human being to being a possession like a car. I suppose my humanity just demands more respect than that, but I also know that some people enjoy the dehumanizing aspects of consensual slavery in which the slave is treated as less than human... it just is something that I do not get.. and it seems to be the cornerstone of many TPE relationships I have read about.

Dear julia,
It seems you may have been exposed to just one side of TPE. So many “Tops” that exercise ‘total control’ in public dungeons and “online Masters” may have affected your perceptions of it. There are probably as many different motives for TPE as there are people living this relationship style. The core of it is different for many.

The obedience and objectification (slavery) you speak of does not include the heart behind these things that inspire the exchange. Allow me to give you this example:

3 couples enter a public dungeon
Each is in a different lifestyle of M/s, D/s and swingers.
Each dominant tells their sub/slave to strip.
Although the action is the same, there are several different dynamics, rewards, pleasures and suffering happening:
- The naked exhibitionist is proud and feeling sexy.
- The naked property is happy to show their ownership through obedience.
- The naked masochist with public nudity issues is happy to be humiliated.
- The owner is proud to display property.
- The swinger is glad to interact sexually with others.
- and etc, infinity…
So it is the meaning behind the actions, not the actions themselves that define the exchange in a relationship. The same is true in TPE. For some, “total exchange” must include the heart, mind, body and soul. Exchanging love and mutual trust allows for deep bonds and an intensely passionate connection. For others, the core of it is about filling the need to give or receive control, service or ownership. So many motives and many varied sources of gratification. However, the realities of a TPE framework that define the “rules of actions” are pretty much universal, hence my post.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 1:55:23 PM

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quote:

My biggest issue is the reduction of a human being to being a possession like a car. I suppose my humanity just demands more respect than that, but I also know that some people enjoy the dehumanizing aspects of consensual slavery in which the slave is treated as less than human... it just is something that I do not get.. and it seems to be the cornerstone of many TPE relationships I have read about.

I am a human possession. Master is not the type to treat me with anything except complete, and total respect and adoration. I would not be in a relationship with someone who would even consider doing less.

_____________________________

Romans 10:13,For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Mike posts in black font
candy posts in pink font

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:17:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

I look forward to your replies and opinions on the realities of TPE.

I would offer some replies and opinions about the "realities" of total power exchange but I didn't see any in your post.

It was a pleasant fiction though.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:21:37 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way.

Ah, I must be a Grand Master. My car flew for nearly 15 seconds.

Yeah.. I'm surprised I'm still alive, too.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:22:52 PM

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Joined: 6/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

I think that the gray area lies in the fact that each TPE is going to be a little different.   What one Dom requires of his sumbissive may not be what another Dom may require.

Thank you, I am glad someone understands.

Yes so far I agree with everything the OP has said and I understand exactly what he is saying.   I am simply pointing out what I feel the gray areas are.   And what I mean by what one Dom requires may be---"squeakers you will have my dinner on the table at six", where as another Dom might say, "Since you get home two hours after me squeakers, I will do it".

Yes but the OP doesn't get what some are telling him. His TPE with his slave may not be the same as ours. We have total power exchange but he doesn't get that some do it differently. Master has total transfer of power, he is saying because I don't agree with his definition we don't. That's the part that gets me going.

I just don't think there can be varied definitions for a TPE---it is an exchange.   The exchange is this---the submissive gives up her control and He takes that control.

The TPE isn't the question is how others live it. It isn't role playing to us and we live it. TPE is straightforward, how people live it is not. You don't live my relationship and don't know how things work. He has total control, what he says goes, His will is mine and his limits are mine.. But when people try to force a way on others, I have a problem with that. Master and I have a TPE relationship and no one should have to feel like they have to justify their way of life to strangers on a forum.

sure feels powerful and empowering to me, Squeakers : )

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to sweetnurseBBW)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:27:36 PM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way.

Ah, I must be a Grand Master. My car flew for nearly 15 seconds.

Yeah.. I'm surprised I'm still alive, too.

Glad you are still with us. Sounds like quite a story.

Of Note:
A fellow dominant forum member commented that Evil Kanevil must be the grand daddy of Doms because he gets much more than a 2 seconds of flight from his vehicles.

A fellow submissive forum member said, “…given the use of a high diving board, I could give you more than 2 seconds of flight Sir.”

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to CuriousLord)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:34:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My biggest issue is the reduction of a human being to being a possession like a car.

I don't see that changing a female's status to a slave, a possession, makes her any less a woman. Only her social status has changed. A person's social status isn't what makes them a human being.

K.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:35:39 PM

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~fr~ Give me a tandem Master strapped to my back and i can fly for a full sixty seconds, from 13,500 feet.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:40:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My biggest issue is the reduction of a human being to being a possession like a car.

I don't see that changing a female's status to a slave, a possession, makes her any less a woman. Only her social status has changed. A person's social status isn't what makes them a human being.

K.

so...If I am understanding the OPs terms of a TPE relationship...it can only be between a Master and slave...
and not in a Master/sub relationship???

(many, I'm sure)submissives give up their control/will/lives to the authority of a Master/Mistress just as slaves do........imo.

_____________________________

Cyndi

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to Kirata)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:42:13 PM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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Dear angelic,
Thank you for taking time to post in this thread. Your version of “flight” seems very exhilarating... awesome photo! Love your perspectives and self awareness.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Cyntilating)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:44:41 PM

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When I gave myself fully and completley to my Master, I gave all of me to him. When we developed a trust and as that trust grew I knew instantly that I belonged to him. What ever he asks of me, I do, what ever I am told..I do without question. My Master would never do anything that would put me in harms way so I would never think about not doing it. Our relationship is lived everyday, it is a TPE relationship. I love my Master with all that I am. But, I can say that I fell in love after I became his slave. We respect one another and we discuss most matters, but in the end everything is his decision.

_____________________________

slavesunshine

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:46:39 PM

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From: Upstate NY
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Honestly, to me TPE sounds like an extension of the "this makes me/them a REAL Master or whatever vs. those FAKES" really tired argument - it all boils down to if the relationship works out, it is "real" vs. if it doesn't, it is "fake." Yeah, sure, to have a life where the slave doesn't make any decisions because their mistress does and the slave is completely happy because their mistress knows that none of those decisions will physically or emotionally hurt them. Not to mention their mistress is also really happy because they enjoy having that control. It seems like a nice ideal and perhaps even something to strive for in a relationship - wouldn't that "knowing someone so well you'd never hurt them" part HAVE to come from long long talks before deciding to go into a TPE? But this assumes a perfect relationship, wherein every particular is discussed, wherein every emotion is accounted for long before the situation brings it up, to me IS a fantasy. You can't know every situation that will happen in your life or your sub's life, and saying that the only way to be considered a True, Real, Authentic Master(tm) is to always make the right decision 100% of the time isn't possible.
Not that it can't be attempted, but I think that long term it will either bend, in that the mistress will seek out their slave's decisions or will need to make up for a mistake here and there, or it will break and they'll simply consider that the slave wasn't A True, Real, Authentic Slave because they want out.

_____________________________

"I was her Voyager, she was my Deep Space Nine" - Ookla the Mok.

"I still have my name
I still have my face
I have not run away from home
Doesn't seem so long
If I now embrace
Every single thing I've never known" - Cruxshadows

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:52:12 PM

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I don't at all see it as a Real vs. Fake---that's like saying a submissive is a fake but a slave is true.

Edited to add---but I can see people claiming a TPE just to seem more real or labeling themselves as 'slave' simply to set them above the crowd. It's that old popularity contest.

< Message edited by Squeakers -- 11/11/2007 2:59:01 PM >

(in reply to CrescentLuna)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 2:53:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Power is authority. What you describe is very similar to my understanding of TPE. You said, “I transfer it all to him”. In that case, it sounds like TPE to me.

First... Authority is only one form of Power and not the only form of Power

Second... Exchanging Power is not the same as Transfering Authority.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

RE: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=- - 11/11/2007 3:00:03 PM

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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyntilating
so...If I am understanding the OPs terms of a TPE relationship...it can only be between a Master and slave...
and not in a Master/sub relationship???

(many, I'm sure)submissives give up their control/will/lives to the authority of a Master/Mistress just as slaves do........imo.

Dear Cyndi,
My understanding of the terms used in BDSM relationships are:

A submissive takes the subordinate position in a D/s relationship. They do not surrender all control. The degree of control is negotiated by mutual agreement.

A slave, contrary to common belief, does not have to be a submissive. However, they have to surrender control in a TPE.

That leaves us with your proposition, that a sub surrendered all control. Are you saying sub is in a TPE, yet they do not think they are a slave?

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to Cyntilating)

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