quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann



Don't write every girl with a pink/red name...Stick to profiles that you actually identify with, and write honest letters to them (the next section.)  Finally, tag women you think are interesting in your 'favorites.'  Be sure to click their actual profile, and read it through. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I'm late with this one, but I've got an hour to kill now.

On a regular basis, we see threads from men complaining that women here are mostly fakes, liars, or just playing.  On the flip side, we often see threads from women who complain they have a deluge of emails that have nothing to do with them.  The real question, is how does a guy start as one of (literally) hundreds of messages, to that actual date?

I can count to having met well over forty women from the internet using personals sites, with varying degrees of expectations and results.  Obviously, the advice I'm about to dispense is probably useless to you, pointless to read, and was more likely just a typing exercise while I waste some time before my slave gets off work.  In short, stop reading right now.  Briefly, let me espouse the virtues of meeting people real time.  Get out there, and date.  The net is one of many tools you can use, to find interesting people.

Men, you're outnumbered.  I just now counted about 251 straight and 249 bisexual women ages 18-80 living anywhere in the world (a total of 500) who were online this site in the past ten minutes, compared to 1473 straight men, and 199 bisexual men (total 1672 men.)  While hardly a scientific sampling (the site owners could probably churn out better statistics) I think it pretty accurately reflects the fact that there are more than three males, for every female.  Toss in the fact that many of these women are already owned, and are actually only interested in other females, and you can see you're easily competing, roughly, against four other guys for any one girl.  I could break it down further to offer evidence that there are significantly more male submissives seeking female dominants, but I'll leave that math to someone more intrepid, and what I'm about to suggest applies to all men, dominant or submissive.  First off, it's not hopeless.

First, a little  homework is required.  Look in the mirror, and ask yourself "what is it I really want?"  Posting a profile saying "I'm new here, have no clue what I want either in a relationship, or in life" is probably even worse than not having a profile.  The sheer numbers game means women have the luxury of figuring out what they want as they go along.  They get, roughly, five shots for your one, so they have a gentler learning curve (at the expense of, typically, being far more vulnerable to being hurt in the process.)  So sit down, decide what you want first, pull out your profile, and get working.  Oh, and by the way; if you're really married, or you only want a fantasy online relationship, please, please, please, only check that "Online Romance only" box and save the women who are looking for real time a lot of misery and heartache.

Wait, did I say profile?  Look at your screen name.  "HotGuy2useUrOlez" and "ilikliknurP" aren't likely to leave that initial "wow, what's he like?"  The first thing the girl sees, usually, is your screen name.  Go with either classy, meaningful, or thoughtful.  It doesn't just say who you are, but what you want.  My name, in real life, is Stephan.  Once upon a time, I went by the name Voltare, a name I'd used in chat years ago.  I figured it sounded cool, but when I really decided it was time to 'be me' online, that's what I went with.  Aliases are pretty common in the lifestyle, but I recall meeting a fellow in a dungeon on Saturday who introduced himself as "Dominus."  I literally had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing.  Still, a name like that is fine online. 

Ok, profile time.  I won't make this a profile writing 101 class (better for another thread for another day) but briefly, I'll suggest that it shouldn't simply be a BDSM resume, unless you're only looking for a local play partner.  "I am experienced in the single tail, excel in intricate bondage, and am an expert with the Violet Wand" is all cool stuff to have, but if that's all you have, it's not likely to draw any interest.  When I'm reading a woman's profile and see nothing about what she does, where she lives, what she enjoys, and what makes her happy, I usually just click 'Next.'  I'm not looking for nameless faceless BDSM partners, I'm looking for genuine friends that I might enjoy playing with.  Indeed, to get into their head in a scene, I need to have an idea of who they are, and what motivates them.  Women need the same thing, guys; the girls who have those profiles listing just BDSM interests?  They never write back.  Why?  It's a fantasy profile, written by someone bored, and not necessarily female.  Biological women might not know what to say, but rarely do they only talk about their sexual/Fetish interests and ignore their personal interests.  Point is, be memorable.  Talk about your love of rock climbing, your favorite bands, your happiest moments, places that you've travelled or want to travel, your love of sushi, whatever it is that you really enjoy doing with people, when you're not beating/being beaten.  That's the stuff that piques an interest; after that stuff, then she'll be more curious to know about what's stashed in your toybag.  That being said, you only need about three or four paragraphs.  Women usually get bored, and have lots of profiles to read.  Make it short, succint, but accurate.  Twelve paragraph novels usually bore their pants off... erm... on.  If you have a lot more to say, put it in your journal area, where they feel they can 'read more if they wish.'

Have photos.  I know that for lots of folks, a very public, high profile job can mean you're not comfortable posting photos.  But how many of you guys have your settings to show only women with photos?  Women do the same thing; they want to 'see' who they're dealing with.  Not having a posted profile pick means you're now competing against 20 or 30 guys, instead of just five, because the number of women who might actually see you drastically drops.  And have good photos.  Cock shots should be a no brainer; she wants to see your face, she wants to see you happy, intriguing, interesting, whatever.  For the camera shy, you dont' need a full on huge face shot (at least not at first, or posted in your profile) but you do need to show your body (if all goes well, she's going to see it sooner or later, right?)  Taking photos from a profile angle (showing only one eye for example) can help with your privacy, or photos that are taken from a bit of a distance.  That way, you have something in your profile saying "I'm really a guy, I'm not an Adonis, but I'm also not a victim of a horrible acid bath accident (apologies to those who are.)"  Also, if your profile doesn't have but a couple of sketchy photos, when you write a girl, include clear and honest photos.  Remember, she's opening message after message after message of one line "Hey, wanna fuk?" or "neal 4 me b1tch." messages.  Having photos attached, puts you ahead of at least two of those five guys.

Ok, photos and profile done, time to do the work.  You've already decided what you're doing here, right?  So make use of the search criteria.  Make an honest assessment of your relocation situation.  If you live in a town of 2000, and hate where you live, than this is a great time to consider relocation for you (NOT her!)  If you live in a huge city, you probably don't need to search beyond your metro area.  In short, try not to have your search settings outside of where you'd actually want to travel.  Don't expect the girl to relocate to you, just because you want her to.  It's infinitely easier to meet and enjoy someone who is within a two hour drive.  There are exceptions of course; I've moved across country and across the equator, and had good and bad experiences, but I know I'm the exception not the rule.  Most of the time I've tried to meet someone beyond three hours drive, it was a disaster.

Don't write every girl with a pink/red name.  Try to set clear, reasonable expectations in your search.  Certainly there will be some 20 year old women who desire a 50 year old man, but I find that is also an exception and not the rule.  In very rare cases have I heard of 50 year old women interested in a 20 year old man.  Going well outside of your geographic, age, and other qualifiers means you're taking shots in the dark (especially if you haven't exhausted more reasonable options.)  Currently, as I'm seeking local friends and play partners, I can only see women age 18-38, in California.  I'd normally peg the bottom age at 22, but my slave is 23, so a 19 year old isn't too far from where she could be reasonably friendly.  Oh, and I strongly suggest not using the weight restriction; a girl who declines to state her weight isn't always 300 lbs.  If a girl is 108lbs, doesn't fill in that box, and you look only for women under 160lbs, she wont' show up.  Same with zip code; we're not obligated to fill that box, and sometimes they fill it in with a different state, place, etc; meaning she could have moved to your town, but if you're only searching for girls 300 miles or less from you, she won't show up at all.  Same with "They are Seeking."  Many people fill those in when they first sign up, and never change it.  Just because it says "seeking male submissives" doesn't mean she actually is.  And I highly recommend showing girls whether they have photos or not; in three or four email exchanges, you can usually feel safe asking for a photo, and if she refuses or isn't attractive, you're only out about four emails.  Lots of guys pass girls without photos by, so this puts you one more body ahead.  Personally, take a look at charlotte12's profile; my slave had zero photos when we first started talking, and the photos she eventually sent me (after seven or eight emails, and a few hours talking on Yahoo) weren't that great.  You just never know.  Finally, don't bother writing girls who clearly have nothing in their profile, clearly state "WOMEN ONLY I AM OWNED", lesbians (expecting or hoping for anything but friendship) because, again, they're shots in the dark.  If you got an email saying "you're so wonderful, I can't wait to be your slave" when your profile was blank, you'd think it was probably someone from Nigeria, right?  Stick to profiles that you actually identify with, and write honest letters to them (the next section.)  Finally, tag women you think are interesting in your 'favorites.'  Be sure to click their actual profile, and read it through.  You show up as someone who's viewed her whole profile, as an 'admirer' and she'll know you're actually interested in her.  This is also why photos on your profile matter; she'll see that photo first, even if you haven't written her yet.

Once you've whittled down to the options, it's time to write the introduction email.  Write each one from scratch.  It's a pain in the ass, but it shows you really took the time to get to know this girl, and that you're not sending out a dozen every minute to every pink name.  In that vein, remember you're still in competition.  For every five letters you send out, you might get one reply back.  For every decent reply, five replys will probably be lousy.  Sadly, for all the time and effort you put into this, it takes real patience to get through it.  Think of it like going to a  bar though; for every hundred girls in any given bar, there are probably only two or three you might actually want a relationship with.  Give it time, and keep a positive attitude, and you'll come across her (and you won't have to go through this stupid process again.) 

I could write a list of Do's and Don'ts for this list, but I'll focus more on the concept.  You can't come off desperate.  You can't 'assert' your dominance (or offer up your submission.)  The kind of women that will likely be interested in you long term don't want to either submit or dominate you off the bat if they know nothing of you.  Remember, they're women; they like to be flirted with, complimented, but challenged in some way.  Tell them a little about yourself; it may sound redundent to your profile, but they usually won't see your profile until after they've read your email.  Not being interesting in an email is the fastest way to not have them read your profile.  Overall, be friendly.  Let them know what you're interested in, relationship wise.  Forget about any kind of sexual advance; she might be, or enjoy being treated like a slut, but she has, literally, hundreds of offers for that already.  She's reading your email, because she's not a slut to every guy.

Keep this email short.  She has hundreds waiting.  Two paragraphs are the right number; just enough time to make her smile, but not so long as to bore her.  Overly long emails come off either as documentaries about yourself, (making her snooze) desperate, (making her think you're some kind of stalker) or sending this form letter off to everyone.  Think of it like you're saying hello to a girl in a bar or coffee shop next to you.  Treat her like the only thing you want from her is a little talking, and you're fine.  DON'T send her a chat invite.  You'll be wasting your time usually, and pissing her off (nevermind the chat feature on collarme doesn't work well for most people.)  Trading decent correspondence is the best way for her to think "hmmm, this is a nice guy, I wonder what he's like."  If she doesn't write back, give it a week.  You can write one more, short, polite email saying "I dropped you a note, you seemed really nice, and I just wanted you to know I'm still interested in you."  If she doesn't email back then, chalk it up to a "no" and forget her (for the time being.)  Be respectful, but not a pussy.  Women dig guys with cofidence.  Submissives men, this goes for you too; 'kneeling' in an email is about as big a yawn as "kneel 4 me b!tch.)  Finally, DON'T ask for photos.  It's pointless.  Wait till at least the third or fourth email.  Also, if I ask in email four, but still don't have one after the first or second chat, I usually don't bother with the girl, as girls play the same games guys do.

Finally, and clearly, use these forums.  When you post here, you establish a name for yourself.  People will notice you, and you can make friendships in a way that you just can't on the 'other side.'  I myself, met my slave right here on these forums, as well as quite a few friends.

I'm sure there are other suggestions and ideas, and I look forward to reading them.

Regards,

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Hi folks,

Yeah, I figured a lot of it was common sense.  Some of the tips (like not having a photo, means you're not showing up in many other's searches, or listing a weight of anything (even 400lbs) will mean someone who doesn't fill in that info, won't show up, and if you search for someone within 1000 miles, you won't show up anyone living nearby unless they've actually filled in their zip code; these are all tips that you don't see spelled out in collarme.  Other 'common sense' issues might not be so common; one of the mistakes I would make, was writing letters to girls without profiles, or BDSM issue only info figuring if I wrote ten, one might wrote back.  I've probably written to a few hundred in my day, and never once got a reply.

Real Trouble,

I totally respect your position.  Having said that, what harm would there be in a photo of you in the woods, or in a generic shop, where your face is too small to be visible, your clothes are plain, but you're obviously a person?  Or shrink a photo so it becomes really pixilated?  Even a photo of you from the neck down would be better than none, I believe.  Just a though.

As for the guys who should read this but won't, they'll end up the bottom 3/5ths here, and continue to make it easier for those who just needed an extra edge.

Regards,

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

I worked vary hard on my profile, editing it over and over, trying to get what I saying out with my bad spelling! and it a good profile (maybe other then the line that I don’t have any money but it true) but lately all I have been getting off of collar me is spam making me think that 100 odd girls you say or here 1/2 of them or just spam bot girls so that be more like 50 lol! so 50 girls to 1,000+ men? ya that’s going to work hu?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

I'm late with this one, but I've got an hour to kill now.

On a regular basis, we see threads from men complaining that women here are mostly fakes, liars, or just playing.  On the flip side, we often see threads from women who complain they have a deluge of emails that have nothing to do with them.  The real question, is how does a guy start as one of (literally) hundreds of messages, to that actual date?

I can count to having met well over forty women from the internet using personals sites, with varying degrees of expectations and results.  Obviously, the advice I'm about to dispense is probably useless to you, pointless to read, and was more likely just a typing exercise while I waste some time before my slave gets off work.  In short, stop reading right now.  Briefly, let me espouse the virtues of meeting people real time.  Get out there, and date.  The net is one of many tools you can use, to find interesting people.

Men, you're outnumbered.  I just now counted about 251 straight and 249 bisexual women ages 18-80 living anywhere in the world (a total of 500) who were online this site in the past ten minutes, compared to 1473 straight men, and 199 bisexual men (total 1672 men.)  While hardly a scientific sampling (the site owners could probably churn out better statistics) I think it pretty accurately reflects the fact that there are more than three males, for every female.  Toss in the fact that many of these women are already owned, and are actually only interested in other females, and you can see you're easily competing, roughly, against four other guys for any one girl.  I could break it down further to offer evidence that there are significantly more male submissives seeking female dominants, but I'll leave that math to someone more intrepid, and what I'm about to suggest applies to all men, dominant or submissive.  First off, it's not hopeless.

First, a little  homework is required.  Look in the mirror, and ask yourself "what is it I really want?"  Posting a profile saying "I'm new here, have no clue what I want either in a relationship, or in life" is probably even worse than not having a profile.  The sheer numbers game means women have the luxury of figuring out what they want as they go along.  They get, roughly, five shots for your one, so they have a gentler learning curve (at the expense of, typically, being far more vulnerable to being hurt in the process.)  So sit down, decide what you want first, pull out your profile, and get working.  Oh, and by the way; if you're really married, or you only want a fantasy online relationship, please, please, please, only check that "Online Romance only" box and save the women who are looking for real time a lot of misery and heartache.

Wait, did I say profile?  Look at your screen name.  "HotGuy2useUrOlez" and "ilikliknurP" aren't likely to leave that initial "wow, what's he like?"  The first thing the girl sees, usually, is your screen name.  Go with either classy, meaningful, or thoughtful.  It doesn't just say who you are, but what you want.  My name, in real life, is Stephan.  Once upon a time, I went by the name Voltare, a name I'd used in chat years ago.  I figured it sounded cool, but when I really decided it was time to 'be me' online, that's what I went with.  Aliases are pretty common in the lifestyle, but I recall meeting a fellow in a dungeon on Saturday who introduced himself as "Dominus."  I literally had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing.  Still, a name like that is fine online. 

Ok, profile time.  I won't make this a profile writing 101 class (better for another thread for another day) but briefly, I'll suggest that it shouldn't simply be a BDSM resume, unless you're only looking for a local play partner.  "I am experienced in the single tail, excel in intricate bondage, and am an expert with the Violet Wand" is all cool stuff to have, but if that's all you have, it's not likely to draw any interest.  When I'm reading a woman's profile and see nothing about what she does, where she lives, what she enjoys, and what makes her happy, I usually just click 'Next.'  I'm not looking for nameless faceless BDSM partners, I'm looking for genuine friends that I might enjoy playing with.  Indeed, to get into their head in a scene, I need to have an idea of who they are, and what motivates them.  Women need the same thing, guys; the girls who have those profiles listing just BDSM interests?  They never write back.  Why?  It's a fantasy profile, written by someone bored, and not necessarily female.  Biological women might not know what to say, but rarely do they only talk about their sexual/Fetish interests and ignore their personal interests.  Point is, be memorable.  Talk about your love of rock climbing, your favorite bands, your happiest moments, places that you've travelled or want to travel, your love of sushi, whatever it is that you really enjoy doing with people, when you're not beating/being beaten.  That's the stuff that piques an interest; after that stuff, then she'll be more curious to know about what's stashed in your toybag.  That being said, you only need about three or four paragraphs.  Women usually get bored, and have lots of profiles to read.  Make it short, succint, but accurate.  Twelve paragraph novels usually bore their pants off... erm... on.  If you have a lot more to say, put it in your journal area, where they feel they can 'read more if they wish.'

Have photos.  I know that for lots of folks, a very public, high profile job can mean you're not comfortable posting photos.  But how many of you guys have your settings to show only women with photos?  Women do the same thing; they want to 'see' who they're dealing with.  Not having a posted profile pick means you're now competing against 20 or 30 guys, instead of just five, because the number of women who might actually see you drastically drops.  And have good photos.  Cock shots should be a no brainer; she wants to see your face, she wants to see you happy, intriguing, interesting, whatever.  For the camera shy, you dont' need a full on huge face shot (at least not at first, or posted in your profile) but you do need to show your body (if all goes well, she's going to see it sooner or later, right?)  Taking photos from a profile angle (showing only one eye for example) can help with your privacy, or photos that are taken from a bit of a distance.  That way, you have something in your profile saying "I'm really a guy, I'm not an Adonis, but I'm also not a victim of a horrible acid bath accident (apologies to those who are.)"  Also, if your profile doesn't have but a couple of sketchy photos, when you write a girl, include clear and honest photos.  Remember, she's opening message after message after message of one line "Hey, wanna fuk?" or "neal 4 me b1tch." messages.  Having photos attached, puts you ahead of at least two of those five guys.

Ok, photos and profile done, time to do the work.  You've already decided what you're doing here, right?  So make use of the search criteria.  Make an honest assessment of your relocation situation.  If you live in a town of 2000, and hate where you live, than this is a great time to consider relocation for you (NOT her!)  If you live in a huge city, you probably don't need to search beyond your metro area.  In short, try not to have your search settings outside of where you'd actually want to travel.  Don't expect the girl to relocate to you, just because you want her to.  It's infinitely easier to meet and enjoy someone who is within a two hour drive.  There are exceptions of course; I've moved across country and across the equator, and had good and bad experiences, but I know I'm the exception not the rule.  Most of the time I've tried to meet someone beyond three hours drive, it was a disaster.

Don't write every girl with a pink/red name.  Try to set clear, reasonable expectations in your search.  Certainly there will be some 20 year old women who desire a 50 year old man, but I find that is also an exception and not the rule.  In very rare cases have I heard of 50 year old women interested in a 20 year old man.  Going well outside of your geographic, age, and other qualifiers means you're taking shots in the dark (especially if you haven't exhausted more reasonable options.)  Currently, as I'm seeking local friends and play partners, I can only see women age 18-38, in California.  I'd normally peg the bottom age at 22, but my slave is 23, so a 19 year old isn't too far from where she could be reasonably friendly.  Oh, and I strongly suggest not using the weight restriction; a girl who declines to state her weight isn't always 300 lbs.  If a girl is 108lbs, doesn't fill in that box, and you look only for women under 160lbs, she wont' show up.  Same with zip code; we're not obligated to fill that box, and sometimes they fill it in with a different state, place, etc; meaning she could have moved to your town, but if you're only searching for girls 300 miles or less from you, she won't show up at all.  Same with "They are Seeking."  Many people fill those in when they first sign up, and never change it.  Just because it says "seeking male submissives" doesn't mean she actually is.  And I highly recommend showing girls whether they have photos or not; in three or four email exchanges, you can usually feel safe asking for a photo, and if she refuses or isn't attractive, you're only out about four emails.  Lots of guys pass girls without photos by, so this puts you one more body ahead.  Personally, take a look at charlotte12's profile; my slave had zero photos when we first started talking, and the photos she eventually sent me (after seven or eight emails, and a few hours talking on Yahoo) weren't that great.  You just never know.  Finally, don't bother writing girls who clearly have nothing in their profile, clearly state "WOMEN ONLY I AM OWNED", lesbians (expecting or hoping for anything but friendship) because, again, they're shots in the dark.  If you got an email saying "you're so wonderful, I can't wait to be your slave" when your profile was blank, you'd think it was probably someone from Nigeria, right?  Stick to profiles that you actually identify with, and write honest letters to them (the next section.)  Finally, tag women you think are interesting in your 'favorites.'  Be sure to click their actual profile, and read it through.  You show up as someone who's viewed her whole profile, as an 'admirer' and she'll know you're actually interested in her.  This is also why photos on your profile matter; she'll see that photo first, even if you haven't written her yet.

Once you've whittled down to the options, it's time to write the introduction email.  Write each one from scratch.  It's a pain in the ass, but it shows you really took the time to get to know this girl, and that you're not sending out a dozen every minute to every pink name.  In that vein, remember you're still in competition.  For every five letters you send out, you might get one reply back.  For every decent reply, five replys will probably be lousy.  Sadly, for all the time and effort you put into this, it takes real patience to get through it.  Think of it like going to a  bar though; for every hundred girls in any given bar, there are probably only two or three you might actually want a relationship with.  Give it time, and keep a positive attitude, and you'll come across her (and you won't have to go through this stupid process again.) 

I could write a list of Do's and Don'ts for this list, but I'll focus more on the concept.  You can't come off desperate.  You can't 'assert' your dominance (or offer up your submission.)  The kind of women that will likely be interested in you long term don't want to either submit or dominate you off the bat if they know nothing of you.  Remember, they're women; they like to be flirted with, complimented, but challenged in some way.  Tell them a little about yourself; it may sound redundent to your profile, but they usually won't see your profile until after they've read your email.  Not being interesting in an email is the fastest way to not have them read your profile.  Overall, be friendly.  Let them know what you're interested in, relationship wise.  Forget about any kind of sexual advance; she might be, or enjoy being treated like a slut, but she has, literally, hundreds of offers for that already.  She's reading your email, because she's not a slut to every guy.

Keep this email short.  She has hundreds waiting.  Two paragraphs are the right number; just enough time to make her smile, but not so long as to bore her.  Overly long emails come off either as documentaries about yourself, (making her snooze) desperate, (making her think you're some kind of stalker) or sending this form letter off to everyone.  Think of it like you're saying hello to a girl in a bar or coffee shop next to you.  Treat her like the only thing you want from her is a little talking, and you're fine.  DON'T send her a chat invite.  You'll be wasting your time usually, and pissing her off (nevermind the chat feature on collarme doesn't work well for most people.)  Trading decent correspondence is the best way for her to think "hmmm, this is a nice guy, I wonder what he's like."  If she doesn't write back, give it a week.  You can write one more, short, polite email saying "I dropped you a note, you seemed really nice, and I just wanted you to know I'm still interested in you."  If she doesn't email back then, chalk it up to a "no" and forget her (for the time being.)  Be respectful, but not a pussy.  Women dig guys with cofidence.  Submissives men, this goes for you too; 'kneeling' in an email is about as big a yawn as "kneel 4 me b!tch.)  Finally, DON'T ask for photos.  It's pointless.  Wait till at least the third or fourth email.  Also, if I ask in email four, but still don't have one after the first or second chat, I usually don't bother with the girl, as girls play the same games guys do.

Finally, and clearly, use these forums.  When you post here, you establish a name for yourself.  People will notice you, and you can make friendships in a way that you just can't on the 'other side.'  I myself, met my slave right here on these forums, as well as quite a few friends.

I'm sure there are other suggestions and ideas, and I look forward to reading them.

Regards,

Stephan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


Well, while I applaud your efforts to help the cluless, I am afraid as already stated, the ones that need this and would benefit will probably never venture into the forums