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Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 11:05:21 AM

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Hello All,

I'm currently in a debate with some of my vanilla church friends on how I can still feel like I lead a good Christian life & have multiple sex & play partners.

Their feeling is I'm just a hopeless sinner and I've turned away from my faith.
My opinion is God gave me this extreme libido, God knows me in my heart, and if it wasn't Gods will for me to satisfy my hunger he would have taken these incessant urges I held my whole life away. I actually have spent 10 out of the past 12 years praying daily for God to take my sensual urgings away. He never answered that prayer.

Prior to this February I'd been in monogamous relationships with single-minded focus. This is the first time in my life I've had multiple relationships happening all at once.

Due to me examining my life and deciding to live my life for me instead of everyone else’s view of how I should live, I decided to open up my life and share my body with others. I'm comfortable with the fact I share my affections with more than my Master and I don't feel it's against God.
I think the keeping yourself unto only one other person is man's rule & not Gods.

So after my rambling I'm wondering how other subs feel about their life and religion. Do you feel BDSM play or playing with multiple people is a guilt ridden sin for you, or are you like me and feeling like God knows how I feel and that I'm not hurting anyone so in my book I'm not sinning?

Sincerely,
sub suzanne

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 11:25:03 AM

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Suzanne:

I don't think anyone can answer that question for you--it's your personal thoughts/feelings/spirituality to come to terms with. Still, people may point you in a helpful direction. That being said, think on this:

If you believe in God, then you must know that God would not give you issues to deal with that God did not think you were capable of handling. I'm talking about the flack you're getting from your friends. You must be in a good place for this to come to the surface and challenge you. To be zen about it: you're always in the exactly right place where you're supposed to be all the time. So now seems to be the time in your life for you to address your spirituality and your sensuality.
Don't know if that's helpful, but I hope it is.
Sebastian

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 11:35:07 AM

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I think you're going to have a hard time getting others to reconcile sex out of marriage and sex with multiple partners if they are christian.

And to me it has nothing to do with bdsm, it's just one of the basic christian standards of living. Sex outside of marriage is wrong for them, period. You can put whatever caveat you want, but it won't change things to them.

Many gays say that god still loves them and made them gay so being gay isn't wrong as a christian. Many christians will disagree.

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(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 11:37:20 AM

Hallittlelolita

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i agree with you sub suzanne you are not a sinner for liking bdsm, hey i like it too, it dosent make me a sinner, but i dont have a polyamourous relationship. If it makes you happy that is all that should matter. God must have made you like bdsm for some reason or else you wouldnt like it. Dont get me wrong i am in noway trying to preach to you that is one of the things i cannot stand. Maybe that is the reason i don't go to church, but i do believe in Heaven but i don't believe in the devil. My family never went to church the only time we would go to a church was for weddings or a ceromony of some sort. Anyways all i am trying to say is that if it makes you happy that is all that matters. i hope i have helped in someway

Sincerely andie and her Master Hal

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 12:21:59 PM

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From: Hendersonville, NC
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Am I mistaken in the belief that most biblical characters were polyamorous? Did they not have more wives than any man could possibly need?

I think the "morals" under which we suffer are the most oppressive, assinine bunch of victorian garbage ever spawned upon mankind. What they who follow such doctrines would have you believe is 'if it feels good, don't do it!'

_____________________________

Love is a razor & I walk the line on that silver blade... slept in the dust with His daughter her eyes red with the slaughter of innocence... The evil that men do lives on & on.
~ Iron Maiden

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 12:43:20 PM

obis

Posts: 412
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From: Austin, TX, USA
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quote:

I'm currently in a debate with some of my vanilla church friends on how I can still feel like I lead a good Christian life & have multiple sex & play partners.
...
My opinion is God gave me this extreme libido, God knows me in my heart, and if it wasn't Gods will for me to satisfy my hunger he would have taken these incessant urges I held my whole life away. I actually have spent 10 out of the past 12 years praying daily for God to take my sensual urgings away. He never answered that prayer....

Well, you have two themes here, one is of your relationship to God and the other is of your relationship to Christianity (and these vanilla Christians).

From the standpoint of the formal religion, you don't get to say "well, I like to sin, and have prayed not to desire to sin, but I still desire it, so I'm just going to embrace it!". One of the main precepts is that you have to recognize your natural inclination and desire to sin, and then do your best to avoid acting on it. There aren't many Christian denominations that allow polygamy, and even they still require it to be in the context of formal, committed polygamous marriages.

I'm surprised if your vanilla church friends truly consider you a "hopeless sinner" -- hope is a cornerstone of the faith and to truly consider another human hopeless would be to turn their own backs on the boundlessness of God's mercy.

Whether or not any of that means much to you personally or spiritually is obviously a question you can only answer yourself. As you say, God knows your heart, and only you and he can truly know what is in it.

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 12:51:27 PM

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I am labelled christian. I believe in God, the father,son and holy spirit. I live a monogamous relationship with my husband who is also a Christian.(Just a bit of background)

My first thought and comment would be that sensuality and religion is a totally different question to sensuality and christianity. As you have been specific using christian as your goal, I will endeavour to respond to that specifically.

You haven't mentioned which branch/denomination of christianity your church is and that would help and make it easier to work from. And believe me denomination does matter!

From a christian point of view, you will find that historically, Jewish and Christian people had polyamourous relationships. However whether poly or mono, the recurrent theme was commitment - therefore you would probably find that non commited and 'one night/scene' sex is not biblically supported.

People have commented on the 'God wouldn't have made you that way if He didn't want you to practise' slant. Well - in a way, I see that as too easy - too simple a way out and its being way to nice. I am sure people who responded were trying to be supportive and helpful and thats absolutely understandable and generous. However, I would disagree in what I see as trying to make things easier on you (I don't mean that in a nasty way) - I just don't see the point in making things look positive when there is no biblical support in such matters.
The truth is, God didn't make you interested in BDSM. HOWEVER, He made you an individual. How you utilise the gifts you have is down to personal choice and free will. According to christian doctrine - you could be the biggest sinner of all time yet still be able to be with God should you choose to accept Jesus with a pure heart and a cleansed soul. It is a simple as that really. If you can reconcile your belief with your desires and remain in faith and feel able to look your God in the face and say that you did what you did in love and purity and with total faith - then your churchs judgements are not to be concerned over. The only entity you have to be concerned with, is your God. Be true to yourself, Your God and His Will, WILL be done. Nothing else matters.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 12:56:11 PM

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Isn't the old testament filled with men who had more than one wife (sex partner?).

edited to add....I'm just singing the same song of Raingod.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 10/5/2005 12:57:55 PM >

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 1:19:06 PM

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quote:

So after my rambling I'm wondering how other subs feel about their life and religion. Do you feel BDSM play or playing with multiple people is a guilt ridden sin for you, or are you like me and feeling like God knows how I feel and that I'm not hurting anyone so in my book I'm not sinning?

I have one partner. As far as sexual activities go I've only ever had one at a time. Dated many at times.
However, the way I see it I would only consider it an issue if I were'nt protecting myself. As long as I know I will live a long and prosperous life away from any sort of STD, who are you hurting?

I don't know God so I cannot answer your question if he know's how you feel. For all we know we may be living in hell. I do believe firmly that god is a forgiving god. If he looked down upon all of us he would shake his head in disappointment. With all the religions teaching hate...etc..etc. So, the way I live my life is god will judge me someday. He will know I did my very best to be a decent human being. I've lived most of my life helping other's that were in need. That has to count for something.
There are plenty of christian BDSM groups out there. Surely they must think they are not sinning.

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 1:25:36 PM

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quote:

Many gays say that god still loves them and made them gay so being gay isn't wrong as a christian. Many christians will disagree.

Many go to church, read a book and carry on with life. Few actually bother to sit down and study. Unfortunately true what you say about christians disagreeing with gay and lesbiens, Emerald - however, thats just down to human personal laziness and people just following instead of learning. So many sheep, so few Owls.

Being Jewish, one would have difficulty reconciling homosexuality with belief. However, the NT doesn't actually mention homosexuality at all in the original greek/hebrew txt. That was added by the scholars in translation. Scholars sponsered by people with a vested interest. I know I have brought this up before on another thread - you'll have to forgive me, lol - I just hate injustice and persecution(especially unfounded).

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 1:39:52 PM

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leading a good Christian life is something that this slave does OUTSIDE the context of an organized religion. this slave believes wholeheartedly that one of Christ's most important messages that gets overlooked was the ability to have and importance of a personal relationship with God, not one that was dictated by the dogma or hierarchy of an organized religion.

this slave is always amazed at folks who claim to follow the path of Christ then hammer other folks about living their lives according to Old testament laws or religious dogma created after Christ's death that have nothing to do with Christ's teachings. not saying that is what you are doing, but don't let the zealots get ya down!!!! Christ actually encouraged folks NOT to marry(unless they couldn't control their sexual urges), to hang out with the sinners and give them a hand up instead of a kick of criticism from some self-appointed pedestal and to cultivate a personal relationship with God in spite of what the world(religious or non) thinks about it.

hmmmmm, guess that is why this slave is the only one in her Bible Study group

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 1:53:09 PM

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quote:

hmmmmm, guess that is why this slave is the only one in her Bible Study group

Hi beth,
lol) I'm the only one in my bible study group now too.

quote:

You haven't mentioned which branch/denomination of christianity your church is and that would help and make it easier to work from. And believe me denomination does matter!

Hi dark~angel,
I was raised Catholic, went Penticostal from age 20-25, then back to Catholic till 2003 where I'd just had enough of all the we're right and everybody else is going to hell attitude the church took and decided I don't need a building to go to or a group to name myself under to believe in God or Jesus.
I revolted and became a non-chrch attending person of Faith overall.

I've also read the book of Mormon & the Koran and I've discussed Jewish Faith with Rabbis in my Best friends temple, and talked to Muslum, Hindu and Buddhist people about their faith.
I guess now I'm a Christian who feels if you're working towards good, love of God & try to do no harm we are on the same team no matter how you get there or what you call yourself.
Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 2:36:23 PM

SimplySubmissive

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"

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't the old testament filled with men who had more than one wife (sex partner?).

edited to add....I'm just singing the same song of Raingod.

yes but it was legal then.. they were still following the "obey the laws of the land" thing. also you had to be able to support them, equally.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 3:01:04 PM

HentaiGamerKitty

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This exact issue is one thing which completely turns me off from christianity. I couldn't possibly follow any religion that told me I was evil for enjoying my sexuality. Personally, I am pagan and find that my religion doesn't interfere in my sexuality one bit.

However, if you're christian, dealing with other christians is inevitable. One of the basic modern christian concepts is that sex is something which is done within in the confines of a monogamous heterosexual marriage. By their standards, you're going against "god." My personal recommendation would be to avoid church and study on a personal level.

Your relationship with divinity is a private thing. No one else needs to be involved.

(in reply to SimplySubmissive)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 3:04:07 PM

Kasia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

Isn't the old testament filled with men who had more than one wife (sex partner?).

Of course. But they were men

If I may suggest to OP - I wouldnt discuss such matters with any vanilla church friends, they just wouldnt understand. You can only offend them or make them unconsciously envious.

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I DO have profile - just lost an S somewhere along the way

Kassia

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 3:24:42 PM

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God is merely the attempt of a small organism to connect to a larger *percieved* one.

I feel a bit strange and left out at times.....I'm not afraid to end,to stop being. I'm not selfish enough to think I need to live FOREVER in some odd way........I think that the tenuous thing we refer to as "spirit" is really just about sensing that we ARE part of a larger web of the life around us. I have always awknowledged that as a concrete reality-even if I could never define it in rock solid terms..

Perhaps I simply see no need to anthropomorphize my connection with life as a way to feel more secure.

< Message edited by JustaTop -- 10/5/2005 3:26:13 PM >

(in reply to Kasia)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/5/2005 9:57:44 PM

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What are we to do when we can't accept the dogma of established religion, nor the bleakness of atheism and find ourselves in a lobby not wanting to enter any of the doors offered.I guess we walk alone as many, many do in this life, sifting through what we feel right and wrong and saying yes that rings true or no I can't get that.
Remember all religions were founded by rebels initially who said it's not like this-it's like that.

Being pagan (if that is the correct term) does not mean you necessarily give yourself license to do whatever you want.
Because one likes a drink now and again it doesn't follow one can binge on alcohol every night. Urges are always going to be there.It's the price we pay for being incarnated in a body that has its needs and desires but the "spirit" (whatever) establishes one's own restraints and barriers.
You have a car with a particularly powerful engine.Fine but you can always use the brake when it is needed.Don't ask God to give you a smaller engine :)
In the end you are the one to make the choice .If polyamory works for you and it feels right then follow it .

Sorry if that seems confused.I guess few people are extremely clear headed about all this-and I'm certainly still trying to find my own direction.

quote:

Their feeling is I'm just a hopeless sinner and I've turned away from my faith.
My opinion is God gave me this extreme libido, God knows me in my heart, and if it wasn't Gods will for me to satisfy my hunger he would have taken these incessant urges I held my whole life away. I actually have spent 10 out of the past 12 years praying daily for God to take my sensual urgings away. He never answered that prayer.

Prior to this February I'd been in monogamous relationships with single-minded focus. This is the first time in my life I've had multiple relationships happening all at once.

Due to me examining my life and deciding to live my life for me instead of everyone else’s view of how I should live, I decided to open up my life and share my body with others. I'm comfortable with the fact I share my affections with more than my Master and I don't feel it's against God.
I think the keeping yourself unto only one other person is man's rule & not Gods.

So after my rambling I'm wondering how other subs feel about their life and religion. Do you feel BDSM play or playing with multiple people is a guilt ridden sin for you, or are you like me and feeling like God knows how I feel and that I'm not hurting anyone so in my book I'm not sinning?

Sincerely,
sub suzanne

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/6/2005 12:43:59 AM

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All I can say is: BRAVO plantlady!!
I am from a very redligious upbriging myself & couldn't agree with you any more!

_____________________________

If you can LAUGH at it you can live WITH it!

(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/6/2005 3:22:48 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: plantlady64
I actually have spent 10 out of the past 12 years praying daily for God to take my sensual urgings away. He never answered that prayer.

This is the only line that i don't understand. If i prayed every day to not want to kill my neighbor for that long and still wanted to, would it make it ok to go ahead and do it? Is that how Christianity works? You take a 'sin' and pray to not want to do it for x amount of time and if it's still a sin and you are still a sinner and want to committ said sin, at some point in time it is no longer a sin?? And if you held so tight to the fact that your urges were sinful aren't you now in even deeper 'trouble' by giving in? Or do you now believe them to be 'ok'? I personally think the desire for sex, even kinky sex, has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with chemistry.

_____________________________

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(in reply to plantlady64)

RE: Sensuality & Religion = What? - 10/6/2005 4:39:35 AM

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I have to disagree with this. There are a lot of gay Christians, and they're obviously having sex out of marriage. Then there are fringe Christians who believe a man should have more than one wife, even though that would be considered a sin (a mortal one, in fact) by any other Christian. Christianity is one of the most diverse religions in the world. It's hard to find ANYTHING that no Christian will agree with.

Also, I have to say, the kind of guilt that the OP is expressing is peculiarly Christian. Few religions make as big a deal over whom you sleep with (and where and when you do it). I guess Islam is another one, but that's about it. Most other religions emphasize the things that really count--and that doesn't include whom you fucked on Tuesday night.

Edited to add: I just reread your comment and saw that you gave the example of gays yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

I think you're going to have a hard time getting others to reconcile sex out of marriage and sex with multiple partners if they are christian.

And to me it has nothing to do with bdsm, it's just one of the basic christian standards of living. Sex outside of marriage is wrong for them, period. You can put whatever caveat you want, but it won't change things to them.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/6/2005 4:40:58 AM >

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

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