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RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 1:17:25 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		rotionalization is a fun game-but not everyone will buy the smoke and mirrors routine.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 1:19:01 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I just can't regard exploring sexual activity, bdsm activity, whatever, as "training."  Training is imparting knowledge, usually through the use of repetition, to gain a skill.  Like training a dog to fetch the newspaper.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 1:19:11 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I always just called it goofing off with a friend.

I'm so informal, I just don't even qualify as a master.


Me either...the submissives that have called me that or even the lesser Sir have just been deluded souls.  Poor girls...

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 1:22:45 PM   
sirguym


Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline 		Well, personally I train people to behave like ponies or puppies, which is fun for me and fun for them.

I am very clear however that what I want will be different to what each and every other playmate, Master, Mistress or whatever will want.

The analogy I make is with learning to drive a car.

The first time you drive a car different to the one you first learned on, it all feels different, like you're having to learn all over again.

But 10 years down the line, you get into a new hire car, you drive it, 10 minutes after you give it back you can't remember which  make it was.

Somebody has to teach you to drive, but the only way to get to be able to drive any car is to drive dozens of different types.

Very few submissives or slaves are going to find "their one" first off.

Most are going to go through lots of different relationships, some good, some bad, before they know enough about themselves to even know who and what they want, what works for them.

I never present myself as 'a submissive or slave trainer', I hope I am a lot more than that.

However, I acknowledge from the start that with any new girl that I may not be their one and only forever Master.

I hope that if they move on, they will adapt better, quicker than they would have otherwise; and don't have too much to unlearn.

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 1:55:59 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

Getting to experience a master of flogging (or piercing or bondage etc) isn't going to bring you to the same place as being flogged (or pierced or bound etc) by your own Master. "Relationships" change damn near everything, including reactions and feelings. Somehow, dominants seem quite able to tweak the pre-formed s-type adults who grace their doorsteps very well all on their own and when it doesn't work, it doesn't work but then, communication is so much more important than training. I agree with Vran in the sense that a lot of folks don't know what they'll like and what they won't like, but most folks know exactly what appeals to them and made them seek out BDSM in the first place. For me, it was bondage. Loved the idea. Loved to tie myself up and fall asleep feeling cozy and hugged, so that's where I knew I wanted start. I mean, I don't know for sure, but don't most people have a 'first' thing they wanted to explore or loved already when they jumped into the leather vats? Spanking a girl or tieing up a guy?

That said, for those who do 'train', here's a free vowel .. try training those who really need it - other dominants. Teach the dominants in your local clubs how to throw a bullwhip properly or how to tie a half-hitch without getting it caught in someone's hair. Teach them the difference between a snap and a hook or between a Turk and a Granny or how to do a cupping. Teach them what they want to know and leave it to them to find a partner who's into such things or is willing to be tweaked.  Now that is going to be worth something someday. Teach dominants how 'not' to maim or injure, and I'll be happy to jump on the trainers bandwagon.

I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:08:18 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

~
That said, for those who do 'train', here's a free vowel .. try training those who really need it - other dominants.
I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.

Celeste

This is absolutely unforgettable.


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:20:46 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

You say:
~I for one, could not care less who the slave may end up with 5 minutes, 5 days, weeks, months, years or decades down the road.~
and you also say that you:
~ teach her what various things mean, how they effect her, if they effect her and if they are just plain wrong for her. ~

AND:
~Training can be simply showing someone a technique, demonstrating it on them~


If you cannot see the lack of computation might I suggest a maths course? Or might I suggest demonstarting it on yourself, and/or go pick on somebody your own size. and/or you are a heartless w*n*e* (Seeing red)

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 4/17/2008 2:22:47 PM >

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:27:41 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

~FR~

Getting to experience a master of flogging (or piercing or bondage etc) isn't going to bring you to the same place as being flogged (or pierced or bound etc) by your own Master. "Relationships" change damn near everything, including reactions and feelings. Somehow, dominants seem quite able to tweak the pre-formed s-type adults who grace their doorsteps very well all on their own and when it doesn't work, it doesn't work but then, communication is so much more important than training. I agree with Vran in the sense that a lot of folks don't know what they'll like and what they won't like, but most folks know exactly what appeals to them and made them seek out BDSM in the first place. For me, it was bondage. Loved the idea. Loved to tie myself up and fall asleep feeling cozy and hugged, so that's where I knew I wanted start. I mean, I don't know for sure, but don't most people have a 'first' thing they wanted to explore or loved already when they jumped into the leather vats? Spanking a girl or tieing up a guy?

That said, for those who do 'train', here's a free vowel .. try training those who really need it - other dominants. Teach the dominants in your local clubs how to throw a bullwhip properly or how to tie a half-hitch without getting it caught in someone's hair. Teach them the difference between a snap and a hook or between a Turk and a Granny or how to do a cupping. Teach them what they want to know and leave it to them to find a partner who's into such things or is willing to be tweaked.  Now that is going to be worth something someday. Teach dominants how 'not' to maim or injure, and I'll be happy to jump on the trainers bandwagon.

I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.

Celeste


But don't you see, Celeste...the submissives NEED to be taught what it is to experience everything by someone experienced at it so that they can then know whether or not their dominant...when they find one...is doing it right or wrong, whether or not they are doing it the approved "trainer" way, so they can say to their dominant when their dominant gets angry about something "Well, that is not how my MENTOR/Trainer would have handled it".  And...let's not forget, in teaching other dominants these skills, the important part of training...the sexual response to these skills and the ever-important questions of "Why does pain bring me pleasure?" and "Can pain really make me wet?" and the most important one, "Why Sir...whatever are you going to do about this wetness?...you can't leave me this way" cannot be answered and demonstrated.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 4/17/2008 2:46:23 PM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:37:05 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		 Celeste!

quote:

I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.


quote:

Just realize that no where in this have I recommended someone go to a trainer who appears to be an HNG.


Not all trainers appear to me to be HNG...many appear to be HFOG...which is Horny Fat Old Guys. 

quote:

But training, while laughed at by some, has a real use when applied correctly and with certain things in mind. It is not an end in itself.


NOBODY is saying training when  you use the term to mean learning, is being laughed at by everyone.  I just laugh at when the coach says he needs to lather up and shower the boys and girls he is teaching as part of their training regime.

quote:

It is simply a chance for someone to explore some sides of themselves hopefully with someone qualified in the area they want to explore. Like going to a club and having an expert flogger, do a flogging on you. To me...thats a form of training. You have gained knowledge from it.


It is a form of training but it isn't the form YOU are talking about.  I strongly support finding someone you SEE doing what you want and learning from them through conversation and observation, sort of like going to and talking to a therapist about how to be a better person.  What you mean is the equivelent of a marriage counselor who moves  into your house and sleeps with your wife to "train" her to be a better wife.


quote:

 Why is going to a trainer any different and horrible, if he does the same thing that you would have gotten at a club?


Because it isn't the same in any way shape or form and the fact that you can't see that undermines whatever credibility you think you have. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:44:55 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
But don't you see, Celeste...the submissives NEED to be taught what it is to experience everything by someone experienced at it so that they can then know whether or not their dominant...when they find one...is doing it right or wrong,


Excuse me, I think you're stepping on my territory now. I am the Goddess of Sarcasm, it says so right over there.

<---------------------------

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:48:30 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
But don't you see, Celeste...the submissives NEED to be taught what it is to experience everything by someone experienced at it so that they can then know whether or not their dominant...when they find one...is doing it right or wrong,


Excuse me, I think you're stepping on my territory now. I am the Goddess of Sarcasm, it says so right over there.

<---------------------------

Cali


Please...PLEASE...forgive me, O Goddess of Sarcasm.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:51:32 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		Eeeeeeeeeeeep.  I have a feeling this is one of those times that I should run while I still can.  Oh wait... maybe I wasn't trained properly, yes, that's it!

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 2:57:32 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And my question to you...asked in all seriousness...is this:  what separates you, given the fact that you admit that sexual exploration most likely will be involved, from the HNGs who come on as trainers?  Because you state that you look at it differently?  Because you state that you are showing them their fears in a safe environment and what brings them pleasure in a safe environment?  Or is it because you are able to state in your own mind that you know that you are not their dominant and you disclaim that to them before every time you take them to a point where they want to give themselves to you?  I am quite sure that most other trainers/mentors state the same thing...what makes you different?

Forgive me if this seems a bit snide but it sounds a bit to me like those in my own profession and in the medical profession who state that they see 50 patients a day because they have a "calling to serve as much of humanity as possible".  Perhaps I am a bit cynical.


Lol...I didnt say it will always be sexual, I mentioned that for many this is and will have some form of sexual response. I know many women who orgasm from being flogged. Is that me having sex with them like an HNG?

I  also know many who want something that is on the sexual side. However, as a trainer, one of the things done is to teach them what they are asking for. Whether its as complete a lesson as possible or something very limited and with a narrow scope. Should they desire it to be sexual is one thing. Should I require it to be sexual would place me in the HNG catagory. Hopefully that clears up your confusion and snideness.  As for their wanting to give themselves to me? Who knows. I am not a sunday school teacher who would never look at a woman in anything but a Christian way. I teach people about something that for many is very sexual in nature. For others it isnt. No where do I require any thing sexual in nature. Nor, will I state that on occasion training has never led to some fun for all of a sexual nature. Even though many down play it. This is an alternative sexual lifestyle.

So is sex a possibility, well yeah. If I meet a submissive for coffee sex is a possibility. If I say hey online its a possibility. But is it what training is designed to achieve? No. Not unless they specifically want to be trained and learn about some sexual aspect of this lifestyle. perhaps fisting as an example. Would I be sexual HNG if someone asked me to show them how to be fisted and I do? or would I simply be training them.

MV 

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:00:25 PM   
MusicalBoredom


Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline 		The thought of someone being a trainer seems great in my head but so does communism so it never really seemed like something that actually worked.  For example, I can conjure up a rather erotic image of a bunch of miscreants lined up at my door waiting to be "trained" for a few hours or days and sent on their way but the reality of such a thing just seems silly.  I do think that life itself tends to teach or train us and we lean on most of the people around us to some degree in that process.  Now I have learned from people that I have known or talked to and picked up a few things in some demonstrations along the way but I don't think that's what's referred to as "training". 

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:05:31 PM   
petitespitfire64


Posts: 182
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		As a brand newbie..I had a hot guy offer to train me. He proceeded to beat me and fuck me and make me want to be his, all the while telling me over and over that he didn't want to keep me. Boy...was THAT destructive to the self esteem.

_____________________________

**Daneene**
"The right thing to do isn't always the popular thing to do"

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:08:08 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespitfire64

As a brand newbie..I had a hot guy offer to train me. He proceeded to beat me and fuck me and make me want to be his, all the while telling me over and over that he didn't want to keep me. Boy...was THAT destructive to the self esteem.


And pretty much the reason that people tend to despise these "casual trainers".

The sad things is that the bastards can't even see they are doing this-they just try to shrug it off as "I have no guilt-she asked for it."

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to petitespitfire64)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:11:27 PM   
petitespitfire64


Posts: 182
Joined: 10/4/2007
Status: offline 		Pretty pitiful. And that person above? He's definitely right...a Christian person (or ANY decent human being) would probably CARE where his "trainees" ended up in 5 minutes..years...whatever. Sheesh.

_____________________________

**Daneene**
"The right thing to do isn't always the popular thing to do"

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:12:43 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		And what happens when you are done "training them"?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:18:54 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		They know how to sit up, roll over and play dead?

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/17/2008 3:20:46 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Ah, some of them are just so beginnerlicious you HAVE to train them.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 40
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