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RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:02:16 AM   
PhoenixRed


Posts: 174
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

That said, for those who do 'train', here's a free vowel .. try training those who really need it - other dominants. Teach the dominants in your local clubs how to throw a bullwhip properly or how to tie a half-hitch without getting it caught in someone's hair. Teach them the difference between a snap and a hook or between a Turk and a Granny or how to do a cupping. Teach them what they want to know and leave it to them to find a partner who's into such things or is willing to be tweaked.  Now that is going to be worth something someday. Teach dominants how 'not' to maim or injure, and I'll be happy to jump on the trainers bandwagon.

I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.

Celeste


I agree with you on those points I bolded.  I just met a female switch that has become my sub, but I'm also training her to Domme.  She's very new to the lifestyle. We just had our first Domme training session this week.   This session was Flogger 101 and Riding Crop 101.  How to use them; kinds there are; where to land the blows and where not to, etc. (I'm a big stickler regarding safety)  On the agenda will also be in strap-on training, as she shares that interest with me ...but you're right... I'm not providing my own ass for it!!!  After telling my boys that I am training a new Domme, all of them have cheerfully volunteered to be "crash test dummies" for her to learn on.    I think it's great that she'll have more than one man to practice on, because she'll be exposed to men of different body types, tolerances, etc.  Win-win all around for everyone so far!  

One brief comment on training submissives, though.....I have trained men in strap-on play before.  Yes, they are my subs.  But, I believe that if any of them ever leave for any reason, and they find another Dominant that likes strap-on play, at least I'll be confident in that they'll have some good experience in that area of play under their belts and are aware of how it should be done safely.  Will that be a good thing for thier next dominant? Maybe, maybe not...all depends on what that dominant wants in a sub.

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Everyone deserves a break from the person everyone else expects them to be.
In the great experiment known as evolution, evidently there are some people who's ancestors were in the control group.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 3:02:55 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I have yet to see a 'trainer' who is willing  teach someone how to use a strap-on by providing the 'ass' for it.

Celeste


For starters, the bit above was probably one of the best parts of the whole thread.

As I sat here reading some rather long opinions, the same thought kept coming back to Me.  What we seem to have here is a difference of opinion in the use of the word.  Call Me an uneducated fool if you will, but My personal understanding of the idea of training is to pass on knowledge of a skill. 

Now, if you're training someone at a skill, it would seem to Me that you are teaching them a technique.  This has very little to do with how someone *receives* that technique,  which is a different matter entirely.  Maybe it is just My simple perspective, but I see a huge difference between "doing" and "being done".


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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:13:58 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Things someone can be trained for:( For the most part with tweaking when needed person to person basis some call this tweaking training a person to their needs it is, how they like something to be done.)

Cock sucking/Eating Pussy. ( My first "Owner" Taught me how to suck cock, on a toy, sure we both got off on it but didnt touch each other. When receiving a submissive/slave who is going to be more then just your sub/slave but also a person you have sex with on a regular basis. Do you want to be the person who teaches her not to use her teeth,or do you want that skill to be something she already knows or has been partially taught about?)

How to clean the house (With out sweeping things under the rug)

How to do basic cooking (Honestly you want to sit throught every burnt meal and deal with her crying because she left the chicken in a few minutes to long? I would never subject anyone to the ordeal of teaching me how to cook if I had to learn again. I destroyed 3 school stoves in home ec. and the fire department basically sat in our parking lot waiting for me to screw it up.)

How to handle finances (when to pay bills with what money how to save)

How to handle jerks (self-defense classes and such)

How to deal with emotional things (the loss of a dog, a friend someone you care about, past trauma or abuse)

There are people in this world who actually do honestly train people just to be better people with wanting nothing out of it. Sure does sex sometimes happen between trainer and trainee? Yes. Does it make it right or wrong? Depends on the situation. Whats the difference then a virgin going to someone she trusts with her life and saying, I want my first time to be something I never regret and sleeping with said friend. Its the same as saying I want a good experience with anal, or I want to be able to point out a good experience dealing with pain. Or I want to learn about where my pain thresh-hold is.

No training is exact and we are trained and retrained for Everything in life. But there is a reason alot of jobs require experience in feilds before hiring. So that it doesnt take 5 years for the person to pick up the job. Sure jobs are different from D/s but the concept to me is the same.

Just my two cents for the morning



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" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 6:41:18 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Before this turns into a massive shitstorm I want to give MastrVran, a chance to redeem himself.  I strongly believe that education (implying a less "hands on" approach and in general, learning) is wonderful and important.  I am one who doesn't believe in testing implements upon myself, or bottoming to learn how to be a better dominant.

The way BSB feels when I torment or fuck her (and I realize for some here, that might be one and the same) the way she feels while I am doing it is different than another woman would feel if I was doing the exact same thing to her.

So, can you give us specifics of what this universal training you do consists of?


Ok...reasonable discussion I can deal with easily. The problem most people have with training is someone tells you. I am a trainer, let me teach you what I know and you have to do is everything I say. Come over strip...fuck and we begin. With that as the normal online and often offline answer, I can see and understand most peoples reactions.

Now, once more we enter the Universal or teaching or training someone and it being so helpful to her future Master idea. Like I have said previously, this is not about any one but the person getting the training. Some would use a different word, but the idea, is you go, have something you are interested in shown to you, done to you, or perhaps you are allowed to practice on someone with assistance, and I recommend bringing your own slave or sub if thats the case and by doing this you become better. I already mentioned flogging, add in any of the physical subjects that we do, and some one knowledgeable about that item would be nice to have show you what can be done with it.

This is not about looking for love in all the wrong places. As a sub mentioned earlier how horrible someone was who showed her what was possible but did not want her as his own submissive. She stated he told her that from the start and all the time, but she wanted him and it made her feel bad. So he was horrible. Sounds more like sub frenzy that then, even when it was stated up front, became an objection because he would not change his already stated stance on taking her as his. If this type of falling in love with anyone who you have a good time with is your normal reaction, then a trainer is not for you. Only deal with someone who "says" he wants you to be his. Of course probably 85% online are lying. But what the heck.

But back to training, many people do not want someone just to show them how something feels, or to have a nice experience without expecting lifelong commitment. However, if what you are seeking is simply to learn, and get to know about something that interests you, or excites you, or even something that turns you on. Then maybe a trainer is a good idea. if you want to learn all this and feel its only correctly learned from someone you can build a relationship with, because what you want is intimate, sexual, and only should be done by a committed lover, then a trainer is wrong for you.

Perhaps this has cleared some things up. I know many on here will see whats been typed and ignore it all and say ah but he said sexual some where in there...so he is just wanting to get laid. For those people. Have a nice day lol. For anyone else, may your experiences always be useful to you and your life be enriched by them.

MV

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 6:55:05 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Ok, let's say your cause is nobel and you only want to provide someone with experience.  Great!  How did you learn to excel at what you do?  Did someone train you? 
I have often considered becoming a teacher of something.  I have a few degrees, a handful of knowlege, and am pretty good at learning new things.  How does one get a degree in bdsm? Or at least enough knowlege to become a random trainer? 
I can strip down and let people flog me (eh).  I can have someone poke needles into my flesh.  I wonder though, why would I need to be trained for that?
Kyst


First off, unfortunately, there is almost no where that training is really done. Sad but true. Most people, myself included came into this lifestyle and had no one to show them anything, I can remember my first singletail, and learning how to use it. I can remember practicing on a large old cardboard TV box and the styrofoam TV protective pieces inside it. I still remember the explosive way that styrofoam would explode when you got a perfect strike and a piece would be ripped free. Most people would be kind of glad I did a lot of practicing on inanimate things before I started on people.

I guess part of the problem many, like you are having with this, is how the word training is used. Your comment about why would you need someone to train you to have needles poked into you is a classic example. Its not about training you to be pokeable. Its about someone who knows how to do needle play, letting you experience it, when you havent before or showing you some special part of it that perhaps only a few know or understand. Its a lot better, in my opinion to have someone who knows which end of a needle to use, how to sterilize them, what the effects are, where it might be dangerous to insert them, or any number of things that only someone who knows needle play would know, to do this for you. Of course the old boy or girlfriend that you might be able to talk into it, might do an ok job for their first time. But learning as you go for some things isnt always the best idea.

MV


(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 6:58:06 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I can train someone how to set a table fit for a visit from the Queen.  I can train the servers on proper table service. I can train the person tending bar.  I can train someone on proper table manners and what all the silverware is for so they aren't left with just a knife with which to try to eat their last course.

I can train someone on how to keep house, how to prepare meals, how to shop, how to keep supplies stocked, how to clean, basically how to be the "estate manager" for their home.

These are all things that I know how to do, that I can show someone else how to do, so they can do what I do.  None of it involves one person giving something and one person receiving something (other than knowledge).

Cali



Amen to that!

Various of my friends are trainers in various non BDSM subjects of which they are an acknoledged Master or Mistress of. I can and do train people in several subjects from 9thC Irish calligraphy and Illuimination to some areas of Martial Arts as well as have trained advanced Body Guards on hoew to survive and keep a client alive in places like the Middle East as well as specific areas in Occult matters. All these subjects I train others in are subjectgs which I can do, do now or have done and do well. DStudents or clients are aware of my experience and in most cases have seen or can see the proof of this. When I train I show as well as explain. If a student, and many have, supasses my skills, that is the best fearther in my cap I could have. A Good trainer never gets jealous if a student becomes as good or better for this is the ultimate goal along side trying to help the student to reach towards their potential in any walk in life. Does this differ from BDSM Trainers, good trainers that is? No the training subjects are different, that is all....  The world is filled with would be if they could vbe trainers, teachers and Masters who are naught but a sorry shadow of what they could be if their false ego wasn't impeeding their own developmental journey.

Iron Bear
Master of Bruin Cottage
(A Victorian Lifestyle poly home)

"I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)



(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 7:00:22 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Can someone train me to be a "morning person?"



[Edited to add: That would truly impress me. Can't be done, I'm thinking.]

< Message edited by subtee -- 4/18/2008 7:10:35 AM >

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(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 7:06:36 AM   
subseeks1


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline 		Thank you for putting it so clearly. If more people realized that , it would make things so much easier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

The only person who can train someone to serve Me is Me. I can work with someone to overcome specific problems, give them experience of different things but can't train them to serve another because I do things MY way, someone else will require it done THEIR way. end of!

"Come girl and I will train you to be able to serve your future Master"... IMO is bullshit and a dim feeding someone a line, trying to get 'use' of the girl, short term for little to no commitment or effort and doing so in an underhand deceptive manner. YMMV



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"Dont make someone a priority in your life that has only made you an option in theirs." ~~Maya Angelou~~

"Whatever you are, be a good one" ~~Mark Twain~~

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 7:08:53 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran
Would I be sexual HNG if someone asked me to show them how to be fisted and I do? or would I simply be training them.  


One can be shown without actually doing it!

I recall a class I went to a few years ago.  A Top fisted a bottom while he instructed the class in his given techinque.  We as a class received training on how to do it according to this Top.   As I watched the bottom, I don't think the person was very coherent to what was being discussed or even how the task was being completed.  Of course, the bottom was very experienced in being fisted and could just enjoy the experience rather than worry about trying to learn how to do it.

Giving someone the experience of a given sensation (like fisting) is not training them.   Training is the learning a skill to give an experience or to receive an experience.  I am sure many like to combine these two aspects.  Teach a skill while having the experience of it at the same time.... problem is..... one can learn a skill... and in many cases... the basics of a given skill in this lifestyle can be learned without any vast differences from any competent teacher.  However, having experiences with another are often vastly different from person to person.  I find it actually a detrement to a person that is attempting to learn a new skill while also taking in the experience(play).  For a new person learning a skill that they are unfamiliar with.. they have to beable to differentiate between the sensations(emotions etc) of the experience and the skills need to have the experience... something that is very difficult when someone has no baseline to draw upon.


oh .... just as a note... the fisting was done on a male.


Well you are right in that if you are learning to do it with the expectation of doing it to someone else, that having it done to you is not all that helpful in learning how its done.

When I am discussing training as it apples to submissives and learning what it means or feels like.or to have certain things done to them, thats a bit different. As some would say, thats not training at all, its just having it done. I really will not argue that this isnt the case. All that is really being done is allowing them to experience something that is done to them, usually because they have heard of it, or seen it, or watched it in a movie or something and the idea excited them. Having an exciting idea though does not make it something you would really enjoy. Just makes the potential there. So to take the next step and have someone perform it on you could be a good thing. And if you are lucky enough, your partner, or Master or Dom may already be able to do those things. But if you dont have one, or are just looking around, someone who does know who to do it, could show you. Or as I have always used the word, train you in how it feels.

I think the main problem some people have is with the way the word train or training is used here. If some other word makes more sense to you, use it instead. Its just a word and is being used to state an idea. The word train is not something set in stone that can only mean one very specific thing. In this case, it means to show someone how something feels, or to teach them how to do the action that makes someone have those feelings. In both cases something is learned. So say if the word learning is better to you than training, use that word. I have simply gone with training over the years.

MV

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 7:47:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And my question to you...asked in all seriousness...is this:  what separates you, given the fact that you admit that sexual exploration most likely will be involved, from the HNGs who come on as trainers?  Because you state that you look at it differently?  Because you state that you are showing them their fears in a safe environment and what brings them pleasure in a safe environment?  Or is it because you are able to state in your own mind that you know that you are not their dominant and you disclaim that to them before every time you take them to a point where they want to give themselves to you?  I am quite sure that most other trainers/mentors state the same thing...what makes you different?

Forgive me if this seems a bit snide but it sounds a bit to me like those in my own profession and in the medical profession who state that they see 50 patients a day because they have a "calling to serve as much of humanity as possible".  Perhaps I am a bit cynical.


Lol...I didnt say it will always be sexual, I mentioned that for many this is and will have some form of sexual response. I know many women who orgasm from being flogged. Is that me having sex with them like an HNG?


Actually, it depends on your definition of "having sex".  In MY world and, I would speculate, many people's world, if you are the one providing the flogging/spanking/clamping that leads to them having an orgasm, then yes...you are having sex with them.  Sadism has sexual arousal as its' base.  So does masochism.  I've read all the posts from those who state that they have been able to "transcend" the sexual arousal that comes from beating/being beaten.  Again, call me cynical but I take those comments with a grain of salt.  Perhaps in YOUR world, the fact that there is an implement between you and the submissive and you are not touching their little pink bits with your hand/mouth/any other part of your body stops it from being a sexual act.  That's semantic dancing.  I wonder if the same excuse would work if your female um of 14...let's say...were to come home and proclaim loudly that her boyfriend and her were making out and she came just from his kissing and hugging and nuzzling of her with his only touching being over the clothing and only close to the pink bits without actually touching them.  If the response elicited from you and your skill with the implement is the response that can be expected within the main realm of S/M, it is a sexual act.  Perhaps you do not see it as such because of a heretofore unseen inability to appreciate the various levels of sexual acts?

quote:

I  also know many who want something that is on the sexual side. However, as a trainer, one of the things done is to teach them what they are asking for. Whether its as complete a lesson as possible or something very limited and with a narrow scope. Should they desire it to be sexual is one thing. Should I require it to be sexual would place me in the HNG catagory. Hopefully that clears up your confusion and snideness.


Actually, I was never confused.  I was curious and wanted to be as objective and impartial as possible.  As for the somewhat jeering remark at the end, given that it was jeering, then yes, I was being snide.  This time, I won't be snide, I will be direct.  Your statement above is another example of semantic dancing and an excellent example of leaving something out of an answer or disguising yourself with smoke and mirrors.  HNGs are not those who require  "getting laid" to train.  That may be your definition but it is not the definition of most.  Most people see a HNG as someone who lewdly, crudely comes on to almost any woman on a site such as this and then, when denied, begins name-calling OR trying to wheedle his way into the girl.  You say this is what separates you from most HNGs.  I will agree...IF you see this non-existent requirement as part of the make-up of an HNG, then the fact that you do not "require" it does separate you from the typical HNG.
However, it does not separate you from most HNG "Mentor/Trainer" types.  They often proclaim...quite loudly...that they do not require sex though they are smart enough to know just what type of response happens in many who are being trained.  They just don't state it.  As a matter of fact, here is something else that may differentiate you from them...you state right out that it may happen and, in your mind, since you are all adults, there is nothing wrong in experiencing sex with a student despite the level of submissive dependance it may create at certain points because you have made it clear that you are not their dominant.  That's better...right? 
This thread...and others like it...are questioning the need for sexuality to be a part of training.  Especially when the sexual part is the main concern being addressed.  It has been stated that most trainers out there are disliked by many, myself included, because of their holding themselves up as "trainers/mentors"...in other words, teachers.  How many grown women need to be trained in any sort of sexual act?  Not being able to orgasm?  See a trained therapist or a licensed doctor.  Not able to endure anal sex?  Pick a dominant who will be patient and gentle as he teaches you to try it.  Unsure of whether or not you can handle group sex?  bisexual relations?  I am sure there is a dominant who would be willing to take the submissive through those as his partner.  So again, here comes an exact question...what exactly are you teaching them sexually that you have far more experience at than many dominants?  And do you give the submissive the tools to be able to approach a future dominant and explain to him honestly that she gave up her group sex/anal sex/orgasmic/fisting cherry to a trainer rather than to a dominant partner who cares about her?  You stated in one of your other posts that to expect virginity in this world is more or less ridiculous.  I concur.  However...and here is where I will make MY disclaimer so that I don't get flamed by those who think I am saying something that I am not saying...THESE NEXT FEW SENTENCES ARE MY THOUGHTS AND SPECULATIONS:  I suspect that many dominants accept and understand the fact that their partner comes to them with a past.  I have one, why would my partner not have one.  But I also suspect many of the female submissives on here would have a somewhat-dim view of a dominant who had been to a PRO submissive to be trained in dominant ways...especially training that included sexual aspects.  Then why would a submissive who has been to a trainer expect her dominant to feel differently about it?  Because there are more male dominant trainers training submissives in D/s, BDSM and oh yes...let's not forget the sexual aspects?  END OF DISCLAIMER-COVERED PORTION.
Here's another exact question.  If you are being paid for this training and the training involves sexual "teaching", what separates you from a prostitute?  Because you call it "teaching/training"?  Or because you are not paid for your training/expertise/non-judgement?

quote:

 As for their wanting to give themselves to me? Who knows. I am not a sunday school teacher who would never look at a woman in anything but a Christian way. I teach people about something that for many is very sexual in nature. For others it isnt. No where do I require any thing sexual in nature. Nor, will I state that on occasion training has never led to some fun for all of a sexual nature. Even though many down play it. This is an alternative sexual lifestyle.


Many downplay it?  Like you just did when you proclaimed that while for many, this is an alternative sexual lifestyle... for others, it is not sexual in nature?  And yet, you are fully capable of recognizing that for most, it is.  I suspect...given your own words... that you also, though you do not state it, take the claims of those who claim to have transcended the sexual response to pain and sensation with a grain of salt.

quote:

So is sex a possibility, well yeah. If I meet a submissive for coffee sex is a possibility. If I say hey online its a possibility. But is it what training is designed to achieve? No. Not unless they specifically want to be trained and learn about some sexual aspect of this lifestyle. perhaps fisting as an example. Would I be sexual HNG if someone asked me to show them how to be fisted and I do? or would I simply be training them?

MV 

As I said...the one thing that separates you from most trainers is your own recognition of the fact that sex may happen and your honesty about that to those who come to you for training.  As for your question, yes...you would be an HNG in my...and I suspect many others'...opinion, given that I have never seen an HNG require a submissive to be sexual to be trained.  One last thing about that...most HNGs, when they are making their come-ons which include sex AND training specify that they will be trained to serve the one who is coming on to them.  HNG TRAINERS are generally in a different category...as stated above.  They usually proclaim that their interest is in training, not in having sex with the student although...oddly enough...it seems to end up happening.
Training to be fisted?  My opinion regarding whether or not the word "training" stops this from being a sexual act is noted above.

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 7:49:59 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petitespitfire64

As a brand newbie..I had a hot guy offer to train me. He proceeded to beat me and fuck me and make me want to be his, all the while telling me over and over that he didn't want to keep me. Boy...was THAT destructive to the self esteem.


A perfect example of most of the "mentors" out there.

(in reply to petitespitfire64)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 8:03:05 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline 		CreativeDominant

Lol...I will make this one point. You seem pertty obsessed with sex. Everything anyone does, that is not with your way of thinking must be leading to them having sex. Cute.

Anyway, you have your opinion, as long winded as it was I do not see a need to copy it all again. You obviously believe anyone who is a trainer or calls themselves one, no matter what is an HNG. Good for you.

I freely admit I am a human being. And yeah, anytime two people get together, there is a chance they might like each other and do more than just have a training session. But then, that applies, at the office, or anywhere that two people interact. If a really lovely attractive person, that you were showing something to, suddenly came on to you, perhaps because of some moral sense you would turn her down. I might also, depending on a number of factors, but if there was no reason not to do more, who would not be willing under the right circumstances?

I can definately say that there have been a number of trainees, that I did not have sex with. Sex of the definition of some form of intercourse, oral or otherwise. I can also say that over the years, I have had had sex with some of the ones I have shown things to. Does this make me a bad person? I wouldnt think so. You probably do. But thats your problem. Not mine.

Hope you have a wonderful day lol.

I know I will.

MV

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 8:28:46 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Damn. I guess I can't get away with calling buttfucking on the first date..."anal training" then.

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 8:33:54 AM   
Kirren


Posts: 580
Joined: 9/5/2007
Status: offline 		I have read thru most of the posts that have been made, and I see some valid points, and some that just dont seem to apply.

Let Me give you two examples of the OP's questions and what I think of each one...

I know of a "domme" who has an intrest in a poly house hold. She is VERY new, and on the local scene known only as a wanna be...(mind you I dont like labels, but having worked with her to teach her things, she is pretty dangerous, and not very skilled at all.) But anyway, this womans idea of training is to find a female submissive, tho she is not bi, has no sexual intrest in women at all, and have said female sub train her boys. She claims that she shouldnt have to "dirty" her hands in training the slaves, tho she likes newer, younger boys as opposed to older more versed ones. Personal preference and I can see that in some manner of speaking.


Another Domme that I know ( and yes, there is a difference to Me in the two, the first is shirking her responsibilities to the submissive, and taking away from what I would consider to be very important bonding time with the subs and also not ensuring that they fully understand what is needed/expected of them, thereby putting the boys at a serious disadvantage.) teaches Her subs in a very "hands on" manner. Training them from the mental, taking down the mental insecurities, and rebuilding the submissive in all manner of speaking. Adding to the subs self esteem and understanding of her/himself.

Of the two, I have to say that I agree with the second one better, simply because it does involve more time, more patience, and more growth both to the sub, and the Domme, and to the two people, out side of their roles with in the dynamic of the relationship. I happen to know this Woman and her submissive and they have a great relationship, functioning as friends, lovers, and Domme and sub. Its an amazing situation to watch, and I feel with absolute certainty that they will last much longer than the other domme and her potential subs.

I have people approach Me constantly and ask Me to train them, work with them, and teach them. Granted most of them are just "do me boys" or just looking for spank bank material...but I offer what I can when I can, and when I see sincerity, often linking them to sites, or putting them in touch with people that I feel are better equiped to handle their needs.

When the question is posed, how did I learn what I know, and why do I feel I am qualified to teach any one? I learned by experience. I have said before, and will say again, it is best when you spend some kind of time under the same flogger you wish to weild, so that you get a clear understanding of the mind set and the physical changes the body goes thru during an intense session. It also allows you to find what you like and dont like, and how you feel about each one.

For example, I do not like humiliation. I incorperate it into My sessions with kittie, simply using sarcasm, and making light jokes of what she is enduring, but senseless name calling and the like is really not My personal cup of tea.

I think that if you have some knowledge and experience that you can share, then you should, by all means share that and help others move forward, but you should also be sure that you tell them the pros and cons of what they are doing and how to do it safely. The first domme I spoke of went to a training session to learn to flog properly, and areas NOT to flog, then went into a session and immediately did what she was told NOT to do.  Had it been left to Me, I would have flogged her until she bled, but I chose to cut ties and walk away warning people I knew had been in contact with her, so that I knew I had at least helped save some ones skin.

I think training is a very personal experience for each person, and for each couple with in the D/s relationship, and I think it should never be taken lightly. Of course, I am of the "old school" ( I guess you would call it that) way of thinking that it is best to go thru collaring phases versus just slapping a collar on some one and going. 

Bear in mind that these are all just My opinions, and dont mean shit in the grand scheme of things, or more accurately dont mean shit to very many people in the life style. Over all, its a matter of personal preference and what you do with in your realtionship is yours to deal with, good or bad. Noone else has the right to say what is absolute or what is not. There is of course what is popularly accepted and what is frowned upon. The choice in what you do and how seriously you want to be taken with in the community as a whole is ultimately on you as a person, and as a Dominant.

_____________________________

Everything has been said before
There's nothing left to say anymore
When it's all the same
You can ask for it by name


Did I fail to mention...I am a BITCH?

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 8:52:56 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I freely admit I am a human being. And yeah, anytime two people get together, there is a chance they might like each other and do more than just have a training session. But then, that applies, at the office, or anywhere that two people interact.


And unlike those, bdsm worships and erotices power and so the attraction is almost inevitable.  The places you mention understand the pitfalls and have rules in place to discourage it, we don't.

Why not call it what it is, it isn't training, it is casual sex with newbies.  You want no strings play and there is nothing wrong with that because it is open and honest rather than deceitful.

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 8:55:53 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirren


I think that if you have some knowledge and experience that you can share, then you should, by all means share that and help others move forward, but you should also be sure that you tell them the pros and cons of what they are doing and how to do it safely. The first domme I spoke of went to a training session to learn to flog properly, and areas NOT to flog, then went into a session and immediately did what she was told NOT to do.  Had it been left to Me, I would have flogged her until she bled, but I chose to cut ties and walk away warning people I knew had been in contact with her, so that I knew I had at least helped save some ones skin.



Just going to make a quick point here. What the Domme in this did, was go to a showing session. Which can be helpful. A training session would involve the Domme doing it herself. Being watched, told what to do and what she did wrong. My only other comment would be if you saw her then go into a session with someone else and do it all wrong, why you did not at least attempt to advise her on her mistakes. Perhaps you didnt know her well enough or something? We all make mistakes when we first attempt things. Seeing someone make mistakes, not attempting to correct them, and then black listing them because of the mistakes, just on the surface seems wrong. I would have at least made an attempt to help her do it better. Now if she told me to FO...well then she is on her own and I would probably warn people she was new and making mistakes.

Just my way of doing things.

Added later...Oh and as another thought, if this was a club or BDSM group function, dont you have DMs or someone you could have mentioned this too? Perhaps if you did not want to become involved one of them could have?

MV 

< Message edited by MastrVran -- 4/18/2008 9:07:12 AM >

(in reply to Kirren)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 9:05:10 AM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I freely admit I am a human being. And yeah, anytime two people get together, there is a chance they might like each other and do more than just have a training session. But then, that applies, at the office, or anywhere that two people interact.


And unlike those, bdsm worships and erotices power and so the attraction is almost inevitable.  The places you mention understand the pitfalls and have rules in place to discourage it, we don't.

Why not call it what it is, it isn't training, it is casual sex with newbies.  You want no strings play and there is nothing wrong with that because it is open and honest rather than deceitful.


lol...why not continue with your deceitful tatics and make what I say into how you want to have it viewed.

I am not into casual sex. A friend of mine is a swinger, it just doesnt work for me. Now should someone I am training, teaching, showing, whatever you want to call it, and I start feeling a better bond and want more. It could lead to that. But it wouldnt be oh gee here you are..why dont we have sex.

I understand your doubts. Many on here just use this as a way to get a woman to have sex. While I am not against that per se, it isnt my personal way of doing things. I know a lot of women who decide they are submissive or domme because they feel they can get what they want that way. Are they wrong or bad for doing it? I dont make that call.

Lots of people online and in real are looking for very specific things. A large majority of those things are some form of sex. Good for them. I wish them the best. But that just isnt me.

MV

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 9:51:09 AM   
TeachMeTonight


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		The place I would like to see "training" occur more is for the people who are weilding the paddle so to speak.  Although I hope to avoid the whole topic of what "credentials" are required to claim to be a Master/Mistress, in all seriousness, this is the role that requires the most skill. 

It does not take technique or skill on my part to be the bottom for a scene with a signal whip, but I sure expect the person I might let use one on me knows how to hit what he wants to hit within an inch either side.  I want them to know that cracking the whip and hitting someone with it are two different things.  It would be fantastic to know they have enough mastery of the whip that they could both crack it and then brush my ass with the cracker after the momentum has be released.  I realize that with practice I may be able to endure more each time I play, but that takes practice more than "training."

I have seen people claim experience based on their years online, that does not help them when they pick up a flogger for the first time.  For this kind of training, I highly recommend locale BDSM clubs and party groups.  If you demonstrate humility and openess to instruction, there is someone who will be willing to teach you.  There are many classes and conferences that cover educational topics.  Then practice, aka train yourself :)

_____________________________

Yours in Leather
Teach Me Tonight


(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 9:57:53 AM   
TeachMeTonight


Posts: 67
Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		Mater Tanino offers the kind of training that makes sense to me.  Particularly since it offers training on both sides of the relationship.  I also believe the Butchmans Acadamy offers some good stuff, although I have yet to attend, I repsect the people who run it and have heard many good things about it.  http://www.arizonapowerexchange.org/AcademyHome.htm

_____________________________

Yours in Leather
Teach Me Tonight


(in reply to Maya2001)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 10:35:40 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		I DESPISE virgins.  Their expectations haven't been lowered yet. 

Joking aside, frankly--in the right context, I can see how a trainer for your slave would be useful.  I'm full of warts and embarrasing personal habits just like most of you are.  And it's damned hard to summon up an imposing MASTERLY MEIN OF DOOM when I've been programming for 10 hours straight and the only language I comprehend at the moment is PHP.  But after basic & AIT, I didn't even think twice about pushing a mop when a two-bit sergeant asked me to, just because of their lapel candy.  Well, I *did*, but a regular paycheck and the UCMJ kept me in line.  That's not the point either--the point is that training is effective if effectively done, and it'd be clamored for if there were more people offering a decent product.

A truly professional slave trainer, who can get BOTH of us back into the right mindset, would be a gem and a service I might actually pay for.  Or hell, in my good moments I'm competent enough; if I knew I could get paid for it, focus on that skillset alone and develop it, I'm going back to school for psychology anyway.  But regardless, my point is that it's not the idea of a slave trainer I question.  It could be done, and done well.  But I *do* question the motives of most; and I question their professionalism and quality.  This wouldn't be an amateur hour thing and be cool with me.

A combined fitness and slave/Master training facility with personal service and access to training facilities and a personal trainer/counselor after graduation... that would be very. awesome.  Of course, it'd probably be very expensive, too.  But still, whew, what a concept.

Anybody have some investment capital?

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

The only person who can train someone to serve Me is Me. I can work with someone to overcome specific problems, give them experience of different things but can't train them to serve another because I do things MY way, someone else will require it done THEIR way. end of!

"Come girl and I will train you to be able to serve your future Master"... IMO is bullshit and a dim feeding someone a line, trying to get 'use' of the girl, short term for little to no commitment or effort and doing so in an underhand deceptive manner. YMMV



_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 80
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