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RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:46:14 PM   
hopelessfool


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Bita but if they also know that not every experience can be both good and bad. It will just give that person knowledge to advoid in the future...

Like Anal... shouldnt be done with no lube and no prepration.... sure the experience was bad, REALLY BAD and PAINFUL but I still learned something from it.

Now I know every time I have anal that lube should be used and that there should be streaching or easing into it first.


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:50:56 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Bita but if they also know that not every experience can be both good and bad. It will just give that person knowledge to advoid in the future...




That's sort of my point. If someone had a horrible experience with a trainer in piercing, they would pass me by because piercing is non-negotiable with me as a sadist and yet, they might love piercing were they to allow me to pierce them. Sadly, I won't get the opportunity with them because they 'know' they hate it.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:56:43 PM   
hopelessfool


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A person that lets one experience rule their life ... thats baggage they cant deal with and will have to learn to deal with. Like say they had peircing play and they person didnt know what they were doing and it got infected. If most everything was compatable Id wait till trust was made and proven then bring up the topic. I really enjoy peircing I know you had a sucky experience but you trust that I will not harm you will you put your trust in me to try it again with you. Or explain that you will give them time but if they want to be yours, they will have to do it eventually. Personally if I had a bad experience I like to see that person preform it on someone else to show they can do it safely or do it on themselves. Then Ill go right a head and do it. But thats just me.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 2:25:56 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Bita but if they also know that not every experience can be both good and bad. It will just give that person knowledge to advoid in the future...

Like Anal... shouldnt be done with no lube and no prepration.... sure the experience was bad, REALLY BAD and PAINFUL but I still learned something from it.

Now I know every time I have anal that lube should be used and that there should be streaching or easing into it first.



And what if that person...as your dominant and the one you have agreed to yield your will to, can do it in a way that is good but because of your "bad" experience with the implement at the hands of the trainer...who after all is ever so experienced...you avoid it?

I will say/ask what others have not thus far...of all that you have said, the part of it that could not have been taught to you by YOUR dominant in a caring way...who you chose because of his wisdom/patience/abilities...was what again?  And why? 

I see no problem with a canvas that has already been painted.  And if the submissive comes to me with prior experience, as I have already noted, it does not count against her.  But to have her tell me that she just KNOWS that something doesn't work for her because of experience she has had with others "more knowledgeable" or "more experienced" than I doesn't give me much of a chance to change her mind, does it?  You say that you would not do that...funny, I have dealt with two submissives...both potential partners...who said the same thing and you know what?  It still came out.  Tis amazing what having had experience with a "knowledgeable" trainer will do for some submissives.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 4/18/2008 2:31:32 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 2:51:49 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
You may or may not react the same way to someone else using the same flogger.


Hell... you might not even react the same way to the same person that uses the same flogger and hits you the exact same way.!  In fact... often it's different... particularly when the person Topping is a different person.  What the bottom thinks has alot to do with how they feel.... sometimes more so that what the Top does.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 3:06:20 PM   
KnightofMists


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mmmmmmmmmmm I wonder......

If I went to a virgin... and said... I am a skilled trainer of "Fucking"...  I will teach you what it feels like to be Fucked! and when I am done... you will prepared to be a good fuck for anyone that you choose to fuck you.... but unfortunately... since you never been fucked before... you need to becareful... since.. you don't want to end up with the wrong person fucking you.  I will train you so that you will know what a good fuck is... that way when you are getting a bad fuck.. you can stop it so you don't risk getting hurt.

as far as you old used sluts... sorry.. for all the bad fucks you have had.... it will take alot of work... but I am sure that I can train you so that you learn what a good fuck is.  Once you have experienced what it feels like to be fucked like I train you .. you will never settle except for the very best

I am a Fucking Trainer!!!!


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:13:43 PM   
lateralist1


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I own up to missing some of the posts out so if this has been said then I apologise.
For as much as I read noone had actually given the correct definition for training.
Training means to bring about a change of behaviour. So actually to increase someones pain thresholds over time so they do not use their safe word as quickly is training because it is bringing about a change of behaviour.
Whether this is a good thing or not is surely up to the individuals to decide.
Maybe there are some tops who would like a bottom who can take a lot of pain on the first session. I might even enjoy it myself.
However the idea of someone training my sub to get my meals is simply ludicrous.
I wouldn't trust a top class chef to get my meals until I had trained him.
Or to train him to receive anal. I like virgins lol.
So a newbie sub has a lot to think about before entering into anything that might make them less attractive to the person they want to give their submission to.
However they can educate themselves about the 'lifestyle' without doing anything physical.
The first thing anyone should consider is who they are.
What you like is really secondary.
It would make my search a lot easier if people would label themselves correctly.
Are you a bottom or are you actually submissive ?
Anyone trying to instruct me in the art of domination will get short shift.
However anyone who is willing to teach me how to use a single tail will be welcomed with open arms.
You don't have to be a good top to be a good Dominant.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:16:59 PM   
hopelessfool


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Well CD Unfortunely there are a lot of doms that say I wont compare you to my old sub and still do. Thats not because theyve been trained, Its not because they are experienced or this or that. Its because they wish to manipulate a situation to go this way or that.

Sure my long term owner could teach me all these things. But I might not meet Him for 20 years. And Yes my Owner will train me to him the way he wants. But its a hell of a lot easier to teach someone if they have the basic concepts then it is to start from scratch. I sat down and tried to teach my friends the game of Munchkin Fu. And 2 of them knew how to play Magic the gathering 3 of them hadnt played any type of card game... For those who had some experience at playing a similar game telling them the rules they picked it up right like that and we played. The three that did not a couple hours laters Still didnt understand the game. You know how to follow a recipe, and  use it to cook. You can use a different recipe for the same meal Your still going to understand the basic concepts of following a recipe. Sure Every owner Every trainer is different. But when flogged you can still expect a somewhat similar sensation. Even If its not the SAME exact situation it will be similar so you know what to expect.

The only difference in having and DOM and a TRAINER... TO ME is the STATUS of the relationship... A DOM who owns you will train you Yes?  to me a trainer does the same thing, giving the basic experience with out a commitment or an ownership.

Hes saying I know how to use a flogger. You want to experience a flogger. Ill give you that experience but I dont want to marry you afterwards....
Or You want to learn Gorean Slave positions  I know gorean Slave positions and will teach you and help you learn them  Ill give you that knowledge but I dont want a relationship with you I know we wont work out relationship wise we arnt comptable. But  I do want to be friends and Im happy you trust me to give you these experiences with out harming you.

My first Trainer... who then became my owner. Taught me How to suck cock, how to cook with out blowing up a stove, and how to make a bird house.

I would not want my  long term owner have had train me in these thing becauce I would feel the absolute worst if he had to pay 15 grand in buying oven parts to teach me how to cook. Or have to go er twice because teeth issues.  I want my owner to look at me and be proud of me, not get that look in his eyes, oh god If I teach her this will she find a way to make it explode.


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:25:39 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
But its a hell of a lot easier to teach someone if they have the basic concepts then it is to start from scratch.


UM  NO!!!!!!!!!   considering the "Basic Concepts" are not so basic.... in fact in this lifestyle they are very different basic concepts from person to person. 

So.... It is much easier... if a person doesn't have the basic concepts of someone else ideals... since I have found... fixing their screwups is alot of work.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:29:06 PM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
But its a hell of a lot easier to teach someone if they have the basic concepts then it is to start from scratch.


UM  NO!!!!!!!!!   considering the "Basic Concepts" are not so basic.... in fact in this lifestyle they are very different basic concepts from person to person. 

So.... It is much easier... if a person doesn't have the basic concepts of someone else ideals... since I have found... fixing their screwups is alot of work.


The WORST experiences I have had in bdsm were with women who had former partners with a "one true way" ideal. Everything I did was continaually being compared to some guy who wasn;t even around any more. They were obsessed with it.  It was like having a dog with a bad habit.

Seriously-these "trainers" are not doing you any favors with thier little "experience" games.

If you allow yourself to get caught up in doing things thier way-it's going to make a hell of a lot of trouble for your future Doms.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:32:13 PM   
Kalista07


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

mmmmmmmmmmm I wonder......

If I went to a virgin... and said... I am a skilled trainer of "Fucking"...  I will teach you what it feels like to be Fucked! and when I am done... you will prepared to be a good fuck for anyone that you choose to fuck you.... but unfortunately... since you never been fucked before... you need to becareful... since.. you don't want to end up with the wrong person fucking you.  I will train you so that you will know what a good fuck is... that way when you are getting a bad fuck.. you can stop it so you don't risk getting hurt.

as far as you old used sluts... sorry.. for all the bad fucks you have had.... it will take alot of work... but I am sure that I can train you so that you learn what a good fuck is.  Once you have experienced what it feels like to be fucked like I train you .. you will never settle except for the very best

I am a Fucking Trainer!!!!




Dang!!! Is it just me or did it suddenly grow very very very hot in here!!



_____________________________

“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 4:56:40 PM   
hopelessfool


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
But its a hell of a lot easier to teach someone if they have the basic concepts then it is to start from scratch.


UM  NO!!!!!!!!!   considering the "Basic Concepts" are not so basic.... in fact in this lifestyle they are very different basic concepts from person to person. 

So.... It is much easier... if a person doesn't have the basic concepts of someone else ideals... since I have found... fixing their screwups is alot of work.


So your telling me that no sub should look or try anything at all in the lifestyle to have some experience in the what ever area they in enjoy because they might have a bad experience with it? So that some Dom can teach me HIS ONE TWUE way? Edited to add: How is this any different then a trainer training me, what because he says hes going to own me for ever and ever and nothing bad will ever happen to me? I was born to believe theres a chance for everything, relationships do now and again come to an end. Is it really different if I had a D/s experience with someone who owned me. Or that I had a Ds experience with someone who just wanted to train me.  Both are changing my behavior and skills to be in sync with their wants desires and needs. Its just one commited to me and one didnt.
How this could end up getting the subbie hurt
Ive never had an experience with a whip Ive never seen one used I dont know to ask, please If you wouldnt mind hit crack the whip at x object there and then hit it?
Ive never experienced a fisting, Ive never seen one done. I dont know to ask if hes going to shove his fist in ALL at once or to ask him to go slow.

Im GOING to have what I consider the BASIC concept of D/s because Im involve in it....

(Basic concept to me is ONE person has the CONTROL one person DOESNT have the control)

Im doing to know things He didnt teach me because I existed before he walked in my life. Personally Im enjoy learning. I learn from several different people on one topic so my opinion isnt just "this way this" or "this way that"

The only way to teach some one from scratch its to take them from someones womb. Everything in life giving someone experience in in some way. Wither their opinion is good, bad, or netural.

Exploring things on your own so you know what you like what you dont, thats not something thats wrong to me and never will be wrong. If a Dom doesnt like that I went to several different flogging seminars, or that Ive been flogged by several different people. He can kiss my Purdy white bottom because I wont limit my knowledge just because some guy whos NOT for me says I should.  

I destoryed 3 stoves and was removed from home ec by request if the fire department.  If my dom wanted me to learn how to cook all over and forget everything I learned. Id tell him No.. I learned very smart things. Like the dont light the pilot of  a gas stove with all the burners on high. And Dont put Metal in the microwave. And what ever you do no matter what. Do not leave the oil that if it spills It goes anywhere near the flame.  If I never learned this would have been very very very bad.....


< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 4/18/2008 5:05:09 PM >


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:32:38 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Training does not have to be like pulling teeth.  Most submissives actually desire and want to know exactly what to do to please somebody.   They are on the look out for things they can do.   Honestly, it's a matter of simply harnessing this desire and communicating to them exactly what they should or could be doing. 

If a sub/slave starts to feel lost as to how to please their Dom/me, there is a big problem here.   Because lack of training, communication and misunderstanding.

In fact they will go so far to ask things such as "I want to know what I can do to please you", "I want to know how to make you happy", "I want to know how I can best serve you".  This is in terms of general context.

More specific questions can be "I want to know what clothes you like best on me", "I want to know what to cook for dinner tonight",  "I want to know what sexual exciets you the most".

In short, if a sub/slave is asking questions like this, they are begging for something they are lacking, training or being given instructions from thier Dom/me.

Training is far more involved then teaching somebody 101 kneeling or body positions, or how to say "yes Sir and no Sir" and follow a set of protocals.   There are some protocals I myself enjoy and other ones that annoy the Hell out of me.

In many cases with experienced sub/slaves, I might have to retrain them a little, or simply embrace and accept some of the protocals they are used to.   Basically, does it bother me enough to want to change it, or can I myself adapt to it.  

It can be touchy ground trying to break a sub/slave of some established ritual or protocal they were trained to do.  Basically, they are following these things to honour and make their new Dom/me happy.   Can be a little frustrating for a sub/slave to discover that what they are doing is in fact displeasing to their new Dom/me.   Submissives really can take thing rather hard on themselves when they feel they have failed or are not doing the right things.

Personally, I'm not used to having a sub/slave open doors for me, nor have them put on my socks for me.  Mind you, their previous Dom/me or owners might have enjoyed such things.  

The most common things that seem to be a conflict at times, is how much control does a Dom/me entrust a sub/slave with.  Some of us Dom/mes can be pretty independant and self sufficient at times.

I know this might sound like a silly, but small things like getting a glass a pop from the fridge can become a big thing.  A sub/slave might feel like they are not being of service or are doing something wrong, if the Dom/me gets up from the living room couch and get's it for themselves, instead of having them do it.   I myself have a tendancy to be pretty self reliant at times and being I enjoy being in control, I enjoy keeping in control of my indepence at times.    The thing is that this mindset is not always very D/s condusive nor healthy for a D/s relationship, even more so with submissives that are very slavish.

In many ways, I've been getting back into the habits of doing more and more things for myself again.  This is what the single life does for a Dom/me.   Ok, so my socks might not be always be neatly folded and placed in my dressor.  Personally, I've never required for socks to be neatly folded and organized in such a manner.   However, I do miss the magic touch of somebody doing this for me.  Basically, it does not annoy for my socks being well organized.    Now, if somebody was to ask me how do I like my socks organized I would be prone to show them the neatly well organized magic touch way.  However, it would not piss me off if they were not always this way, just so long as my socks were in the right spot.   I myself will do laundry, and wash clothes.   When it comes down to putting my own things away, I would tend to fold my socks in such a manner to compliment the sub/slaves folding methods.   This way, I'm not upseting the order of the unviverse.    Any sub/slave will tell you how they hate for their Dom/mes to make a mess out of the hard work they do.

Basically, in whatever manner you train a sub/slave you have to be prepared to respect and honor the established rules or guidelines yourself.   Some people become very ritualistic and OCD in how they do things in day to day life, it's simply a matter of consistent structure.  

It's important to consider small little things like this when it comes down to training and establishing protocals and instructions for a sub/slave to follow.

Thing like getting a glass of pop out of the kitchen, how socks are kept, are a far cry from Kinky BDSM activities and sexual service.

Mind you, I have restained a sub/slave or objectfied somebody for period of time, and trust me.. I would venture out into the kitchen without a problem for a glass of something to drink.  However, they were a little tied up and preoccupied at the moment.   Take a submissive that is a neat freak that feels she has to be in control of always cleaning the living room, tie her ass over the coffee table butt naked and proceed to clean the room in front of her.  There is a mental form of reasoning for doing such a thing.   Who's in control of what again?  LOL...

In terms of Offical Training Standards, this concept humors me.  Everybody has different tastes, wants, interests and needs.

For all you submissives out there, just because your last Dom/me enjoyed Coke out of a Frosty mug, don't expect for all Dom/mes to enjoy the same thing.  Your new Dom/me just might want Pepsi with or without ice in a non frosty glass.   Hell, your new Dom/me might be so used to getting their own drink that they feel more comfortable and in control by getting their own. 

For Dom/mes out there, think about things a little more.  In terms of how willing your sub/slave is willing to serve you, it's ok to have them get you cold drinks and wait on you.   If your sub/slave does things at a certain standard for you and you enjoy it, be prepared to respect it and not toss any monkey wrenches into things that send out a conflicting message.

I know the examples I've given might seem small, but often it's the small things that can bite us in the ass.  At least in a 24/7 live in relationship.    
     


(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:37:11 PM   
Leatherist


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I'm actually more interested in useful skills that property might have in helping with a small business. The sexual or housekeeping things come really far down the line from meeting basic life goals. It just makes practical sense to me-the symbiotic aspect should be complimentary.

But we almost never see it discussed here-how strange.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:43:17 PM   
Leatherist


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So perhaps a better "training" question might be..

What special talents do you have, or desire to cultivate in yourself?

What is you education status? Do you have career goals?

I mean,isn't that a bit more important than how you want your behind beaten?

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:50:15 PM   
hopelessfool


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Leatherist My education status is On hold for lack of funds. My career goal is to make money of the stupidity of others in a non taking advanage of them way (Fixing computers) My special talents include multitasking typing and finishing a game of mahjong in under 5 minutes. Though I need work on spell checking before submitting and then proofing.

My main question is, Do i need to be retrained for being good at mahjong?


_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:51:47 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool


So your telling me that no sub should look or try anything at all in the lifestyle to have some experience in the what ever area they in enjoy because they might have a bad experience with it?


Nope...  I not saying that at all....

I just saying your claim that having "the basic concepts" makes it easier to train the person to be false.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 4/18/2008 5:52:05 PM >


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:54:44 PM   
hopelessfool


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No offense but my in my experince with what Ive been asked to teach people its been a very true statement, but I will agree to disagree with you. Since our experiences with teaching have been different.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:56:51 PM   
CalifChick


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I've been operating under the apparently-false idea that most people, by the time they go out to live on their own, have learned how to cook (even if just heating up something in the microwave), how to clean, how to dress themself, that oil is flammable, that metal ruins a microwave, how to operate a stove, etc., etc. 

If you left your home of origin without these basic skills, then perhaps some serious training is indeed in order.

Cali




_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 5:56:55 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

My main question is, Do i need to be retrained for being good at mahjong?



aaaaaaaaww.. and here is the reason why some "Training" a sub for another is so useless!

I don't give a Fuck that you can play Mahjong... In fact... I would say that since you are so good at it.. makes me wonder how bad you are at the things I want you to be good at.

However.... maybe there is someone that wants an expert mahjong player....and they just might find your talent to be particularly appealing.  That is the issue of training... what you learn may or maynot be wanted or useful to some person that is in the future.  It might be  it might not be.... but lets not fool ourselves in thinking this training is for the benefit and preparatin for some mythical Dom of the future.  This so called training is for those that are in the PRESENT... and the person that comes along later will have to deal with it... good or bad.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 140
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