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RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:23:21 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I'll give you that, but it's not TRAINING.

Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:27:03 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		The term training refers to the acquisition of knowledge ( I know that i now like or dislike a flogger/flogging), skills, and competencies( I know know Im competent to take about 20 to 30 wacks from someone about 6'2" and 220lbs who works out about 3 times a week and can bench 150 pounds) as a result of the teaching of vocational or practical skills and knowledge that relate to specific useful competencies.(taking a flogging in general from someone of similar height and weight)

Teaching me how to cook is training me as such.
Teaching me how to process pain from this or that training me as such because I now have a useful skill and have aquired the knowledge of how to handle it. 
D types Train their s types all the time to be able to do and or take what it is they want them do. The only difference in the situation is this training is done with out commitment involved. Some can handle it some cant but is there any more of a difference then the status of the relationship?
Or am I so sleep deprived to the point Im not making sense to anyone?

Edited to try to make more sense to myself


< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 4/18/2008 12:34:47 PM >

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:27:39 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

Okay, I swore I would not come back to this, but this is bugging me.  When you're flogging her, whether it leads to sex or not, what exactly are you training her to do?  You're not training her to flog someone.  I'm just soooo not getting it.

Cali



I admit the word training is probably not the best word here. Yet its what I was told 30 years ago and so have used since then. Better words would be experiencing, being shown how something feels, taught what to expect from a good flogging vs like Kirren mentioned having someone who doesnt know how just flail away and hit bad areas.

It is not intended as anything more than a way to experience things you have not before. For instance many women, have never known they even could have an orgasm from anything that was not sexual, as in some form of penetration. To discover, they could orgasm from flogging, or many other aspects of this is eye opening for them. Heck, some women think one orgasm is as many as they can have and some have never even had one. They just think they have. Lol..I remember years ago one woman who after she had spent some time with me, I finally did something sexual with her, and she orgasmed. She was so shocked that it felt that good that she said,"So this is why sex is supposed to be fun. I just thought it was supposed to feel sort of ok."

But the main point is that they are learning something they did not know. Is that being trained to do something? Maybe orgams better? But the real point is, that its intended to show them some of what is available. Call it training, showing, experiencing, playing, whatever makes it the way you want it to be.

Me I call it training.

MV

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:29:18 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I'm still waiting to hear what happens after the "training"

Dunno about you,but more than one wanted to come home with me after playing like that at a club. That's why I stopped doing it-not fair to us.


Just to expand on this a bit - playing at a club you have the option of getting in your car and going home but when you are actually in your own environment and using your own equipment, sometimes it's hard to get people to actually leave your house! (Is now wondering where the majority of 'training' is taking place - private homes or public venues)

You've invited someone into your personal space, played them in a very personal way so regardless of whether or not you tell them not to get personal .. sometimes, it's personal.


Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:31:46 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

The term training refers to the acquisition of knowledge, skills, and competencies as a result of the teaching of vocational or practical skills and knowledge that relate to specific useful competencies.

Teaching me how to cook is training me as such.
Teaching me how to process pain from this or that training me as such because I now have a useful skill and have aquired the knowledge of how to handle it.  Or am I so sleep deprived to the point Im not making sense to anyone?



Lol...obviously I see it that way. But I can also see where others just want to use the word in one way only and this way doesnt fit into their mold.

MV

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:34:45 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

The only person who can train someone to serve Me is Me. I can work with someone to overcome specific problems, give them experience of different things but can't train them to serve another because I do things MY way, someone else will require it done THEIR way. end of!

"Come girl and I will train you to be able to serve your future Master"... IMO is bullshit and a dim feeding someone a line, trying to get 'use' of the girl, short term for little to no commitment or effort and doing so in an underhand deceptive manner. YMMV


EXACTLY!!!


Exactly x 2!   However, i think slave training for both side of the kneel could be considered a fetish/preference so i withold any further judgement  look at the popularity of "The training of O" advertised here at CM. 

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:36:23 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

to: Cali
To learn where your pain thresh hold is about. What it feels like with that particular brand of leather/flogger. To see if its something you enjoy or dont enjoy. How to accept not every thing in the lifestyle is going to be something you like or dislike. How to take punishment with out being whiney or in a negative way.


So that when you move on to your permanent dominant...or a more long-lasting one...you can then be well-enough versed so that you can tell him, as it was so eloquently put to me by a submissive who had one of these "Trainer/Mentors" "Well...that is not how my mentor would do it" ?  An indication that they do more than train...they do get into the mind at a level that they say they do not want.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:38:54 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		No I can say to my owner when he asks me my opinion on flogging that One I experienced it with a person in my past. He used X type of flogger and was this height and weight and I could handle this many wacks before the discomfort got to a point where I couldnt handle it... and I can tell him weither or not I enjoyed the experience or weither I didnt.


Edited to add : Just because a submissive you met once had a relationship that was more then just this or that with her mentor doesnt mean everyones that way. It be just like saying well my Ex boyfriend didnt do it that way and in my opinion is NOT the trainer/ mentors fault but the submissives fault for trying manuipluate the situation because it might be different then her experience. I know Every experience I have will be different I know Im going to take more pain from someone I love and care about then from someone I dont I know that while I might have had a bad experience with this object or doing that act that It can be done in a way that I will enjoy it. And I do not go, well it wasnt as good as when my Trainer did it.  If the expericne with a long lasting dom is different or bad. Ill ask When you flogg me and hit me here, it hurts, or when you flogg me and you flogg with this amount of a swing its uncomfortable. Or I really love this kind of flogger because of the way it feels on my skin


< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 4/18/2008 12:43:57 PM >

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:39:10 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

The term training refers to the acquisition of knowledge, skills, and competencies as a result of the teaching of vocational or practical skills and knowledge that relate to specific useful competencies.

Teaching me how to cook is training me as such.
Teaching me how to process pain from this or that training me as such because I now have a useful skill and have aquired the knowledge of how to handle it.  Or am I so sleep deprived to the point Im not making sense to anyone?



Well, the difference is that you can take your cooking skill and if you follow the same recipe, it's going to taste the same way each time regardless of the kitchen. So, yes, you have been trained to cook.

With a flogging though (and other activity), you've only been exposed to the way a given person flogs. There is no recipe, no standard. You may or may not react the same way to someone else using the same flogger. You may or may not have the same pain threshold with the same person using the same flogger at a different time. You haven't really been trained, you've had a singular experience in which XYZ happened.. and even if XYZ happens the next time, it will be a different singular experience. At best, if you go through consistant sessions, you will probably just build up endurance which may or may not come in handy with your own dominant.

I have to say, as a sadist, I wouldn't call your ability to handle pain - useful. Cuts down on the scream time and just causes me to have to work harder! 

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:39:33 PM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
Isn't part of the excitement to WIIWD the blank canvas awaiting the first stroke? Who wants a paint by the number or worse a completed painting?

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:40:56 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

to: Cali
To learn where your pain thresh hold is about. What it feels like with that particular brand of leather/flogger. To see if its something you enjoy or dont enjoy. How to accept not every thing in the lifestyle is going to be something you like or dislike. How to take punishment with out being whiney or in a negative way.


So that when you move on to your permanent dominant...or a more long-lasting one...you can then be well-enough versed so that you can tell him, as it was so eloquently put to me by a submissive who had one of these "Trainer/Mentors" "Well...that is not how my mentor would do it" ?  An indication that they do more than train...they do get into the mind at a level that they say they do not want.


Which is why I dislike girls with long periods with a former master-or "formal training"  I'm not those guys, and I don't like being comnpared to them. So in a relationship with me, they already have attitudes that are going to set them up for failure.

Becuase all I am going to say is, "Get the fuck over yourself-this is NOW."

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:40:58 PM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		You seem like a decent fellow and I am sure you never took advantage of someone whom you were training. It could be that all of them actually wanted a little bit of play. Just keep in mind there is a big difference in those who really want to play and those that you entice into being flogged, spacing, cumming or whatever without explaining to them that you intended to do something that was more intimate than anything they had ever experienced. Possibly if they knew that, they would look hard for the person to have the experience with instead of letting someone mechanically training them do it.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:45:32 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

No I can say to my owner when he asks me my opinion on flogging that One I experienced it with a person in my past. He used X type of flogger and was this height and weight and I could handle this many wacks before the discomfort got to a point where I couldnt handle it... and I can tell him weither or not I enjoyed the experience or weither I didnt.


At best all you can do is relate how you took the floggings and how you found it under the delivery of a specific person.  It is not universal.  The chances are good that your information is not going to be very helpful to your owner.  Although it was probably helpful to your trainer.  Your owner may not have the exact touch that your trainer had, it's unlikely they flog alike.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 4/18/2008 12:46:05 PM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:54:26 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		very true Katy but I can tell him I had this experience it was great or I had this experice it was horrible. Ive been flogged by several people in my life and they pretty much were all the same height/weight/and build and except for a few missed landings or heavy swings the experience was pretty much the same and I can say I enjoyed my last flogging the most because of the feel of it on my skin in between swings. Not because of anything he did but the feel of that particular flogger. Again a long time owner might find this helpful he might not. But knowing the object wont kill me and can feel good is good to me for me to say Yes Sir I would like to try a flogging with you.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 12:59:36 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I am an artist.  I have painted over an old canvas and created something new.
And though I think the idea of training for too many is really just a justification for play; I find the idea that everyone needs to be untouched to have value, is offensive.
There are many of us who have done things before and with more than one partner. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

~FR~
 
Isn't part of the excitement to WIIWD the blank canvas awaiting the first stroke? Who wants a paint by the number or worse a completed painting?


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:01:25 PM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		No one is a blank canvas in my opinion. Everything from the day your born influences you. My mom using a wooden spoon on my bottom had me hide the wooden spoons untill I was almost 16. I still shake at the site on in a Mans hand because I know how much that thing can hurt. Everything from table manners to phobias can be changed in a person if one works to  or want to change it bad enough. While having experience can make a long time owners job a bit harder in places it can also make it alot easier. We all come with a bit of baggage. To me having experience is seeing the sketch of what this painting will one day be... Fixing the parts about it you want to fix and then making it into your masterpeice. Im already a half filled in sketch because I have so many years of life behind me.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:05:24 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I don't mind baggage. I just like a person to be in control of it-not the other way round.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:30:48 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

No I can say to my owner when he asks me my opinion on flogging that One I experienced it with a person in my past. He used X type of flogger and was this height and weight and I could handle this many wacks before the discomfort got to a point where I couldnt handle it... and I can tell him weither or not I enjoyed the experience or weither I didnt.


At best all you can do is relate how you took the floggings and how you found it under the delivery of a specific person.  It is not universal.  The chances are good that your information is not going to be very helpful to your owner.  Although it was probably helpful to your trainer.  Your owner may not have the exact touch that your trainer had, it's unlikely they flog alike.


Ok I am going to restate this point again. Training, is not designed to make anyone you ever meet happier with you. Its designed for one person and one person only, the one being trained. They get some benefit from it because they have learned how something feels and if they liked it. Will everyone in the future do it as they liked? We duh....of course not. But having felt something that was good, tells them that some where out there, they may find someone who can do this again and maybe, just maybe, to keep looking till they do.

Now on occasion, this is wrong, I have had some people with no clue how to do some things come to me, and request someone learn to do certain things well. And to please help them achieve this. When that happens, the best answer is teach them "with" the one it will be used on or for. If that isnt possible at least teach them the basics and show them some more things they can try later. But this is very rare and usually not really that helpful. Only once did it work as intended that I know of personally.

MV



(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:34:40 PM   
MastrVran


Posts: 354
Joined: 3/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I am an artist.  I have painted over an old canvas and created something new.
And though I think the idea of training for too many is really just a justification for play; I find the idea that everyone needs to be untouched to have value, is offensive.
There are many of us who have done things before and with more than one partner. 
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

~FR~
 
Isn't part of the excitement to WIIWD the blank canvas awaiting the first stroke? Who wants a paint by the number or worse a completed painting?



I think if most people thought about this, they would be offended lol. Maybe post a sign, only virgins need apply lol.

Everyone who has been in the lifestyle, has learned something from someone. Expecting anything else or even being disappointed because they arent virgin canvas means...son...you are probably out of luck. which all in all may help the gene pool if he restricts himself to just those who qualify lol.

MV

(in reply to Missokyst)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Official Training Standards - 4/18/2008 1:43:21 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MastrVran

Ok I am going to restate this point again. Training, is not designed to make anyone you ever meet happier with you. Its designed for one person and one person only, the one being trained. They get some benefit from it because they have learned how something feels and if they liked it. Will everyone in the future do it as they liked? We duh....of course not. But having felt something that was good, tells them that some where out there, they may find someone who can do this again and maybe, just maybe, to keep looking till they do.


That assumes things went well. Often, the fantasy exceeds the reality and it's quite possible that someone will experience something with you that they hate and will avoid that in the future even though they may love it with someone else. Do you see how such a thing can be just as likely to close a mind as to open one?

Celeste




_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MastrVran)
Profile   Post #: 120
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