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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:25:59 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

hummm, err okay!
Isn't it great that we can express ourselves here?

I wasn't aware thats what we were doing. I thought we were having a discussion on what exactly is natural slavery and submission and not making proclamations of possessing the divine.

Let's see at this point, I still believe in "natural slaves" and "Natural Dominants".
I will probably always feel this way.
You don't agree with my views on this issue.
We can always agree to disagree, how boring the world would be if we all thought alike?
Have a wonderful evening.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:28:36 PM

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I actually consider the idea of a dominant heart as poetic and silly as the term slave heart - and again, never to be taken very seriously. Valyraen's heart is not dominant, however it is a very effective organ for pumping blood through his body. He is dominant - not his heart, penis, ocular lenses, spleene or prostate.

And since he's sitting right next to me and asking him was easy - he agrees with me. The "seat of his dominance" does not rest in any particular body part - athough if you had to make a case, it'd probably be the personality center of the brain.

Oh that sexy sexy lobe.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/4/2008 8:31:44 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:31:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

hummm, err okay!
Isn't it great that we can express ourselves here?

I wasn't aware thats what we were doing. I thought we were having a discussion on what exactly is natural slavery and submission and not making proclamations of possessing the divine.

Let's see at this point, I still believe in "natural slaves" and "Natural Dominants".
I will probably always feel this way.
You don't agree with my views on this issue.
We can always agree to disagree, how boring the world would be if we all thought alike?
Have a wonderful evening.

Fair enough.

Then returning back to serious discussion and not being capricious in the least, could you explain and define what the differences are between a natural Dominant/Master/submissive/slave/whatever and a non-natural Dominant/Master/submissive/slave/whatever?

I would be interested in reading the definitions and qualifications of a "Dominant's heart" and "slave's heart" as well.

If you believe these people exist and are different than other people, then these labels should be easily definable as opposed to just being a hollow descriptor we give to the people who just so happen to be compatible with US?

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/4/2008 8:32:34 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:34:48 PM

mbes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

GS, when did you first recognize you had a "slave heart" and not just a submissive one?

I find this an interesting statement. Did you mean the "just" as "submissive hearts are common and less special" and "slave hearts are rare and valuable"? I'm afraid that's how it reads from here, but I can't really see how one would be superior to the other (if either exists).

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:34:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
As KOM just stated some people are "natural slaves" and others are "natural Dominants".
What is the problem here?

I did????? I believe I said it was a Pointless Descriptor..... and not that they exist.

just for the record... I find it pointless becuase without the context of a matching partner it is meaningless. Very much like locking your door without having a key to unlock it. If you don't have the Key.. what good is the lock on the door. Being "Natural" Dominant or Submissive, Master or Slave is rather pointless if the person is not a matched with their partner(s) Fact is .... I am "Natural" Master for Kyra and Alandra as they are a Natural Slaves for me..... BUT that doesn't make me A Natural Master or them A Natural Slave. Both together... we do very well together... it is effortless most days

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:35:09 PM

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Narrow by whose standards? Yours perhaps. Not mine. I suppose it is just like they say about junk and treasure. What is one man's...

For me it was just that-an epiphany or even simply a realization, that I should in fact change how I thought on the subject.

I will not disagree about one key/one lock. I know all too well the things I've been able to do with a given sub others have not been able to accomplish and even vice versa. It is very much about the connection between a D/s or an M/s and it is more individual than not and that varies as much to the person as anything.

At the same time, I am not going to deny that the "nature" part of what we do in this lifestyle isn't real. As Mz. Mia said, no one questions whether a Dom/me is one born of nature-in fact, how many have you ever seen talk about being one of "nurture"? I was a Dom LONG before I had the words to describe what the hell I was doing. It was just who I was. I also admit m experiences nurtured that natural part of me.

If it can be said of a Dom/me, I see no reason it cannot be said of a submissive or a slave.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:40:08 PM

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I, like others, am curious as to what the difference is. I would regard all of us to be natural submissives/slaves/doms/owners/whatthefuckevers. I highly doubt any of us went and got 500 ccs of MEGADOM or INSTASUB injected into us. I am "naturally submissive". Just like all the others. Which makes the phrase, in my view, pointless.

Some are naturally drawn to art, math, sciences, caregiving, baking, etc. You can even hear them refered to as having a "poet's soul" or an "artist's soul". Yet everyone I have known in these artistic fields knew not to take these poetic terms seriously because, in the end, that is all they are: poetics.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:42:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

If it can be said of a Dom/me, I see no reason it cannot be said of a submissive or a slave.

Well.... I guess in My family we are just a bunch of Half-breeds.... Some things are Nature and some things are Nuture.

But then again.. I have yet to meet a single person that wasn't alittle of both..

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:44:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I, like others, am curious as to what the difference is.

Well simple... If it's not Natural... it's Manufactured.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:45:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

At the same time, I am not going to deny that the "nature" part of what we do in this lifestyle isn't real. As Mz. Mia said, no one questions whether a Dom/me is one born of nature-in fact, how many have you ever seen talk about being one of "nurture"? I was a Dom LONG before I had the words to describe what the hell I was doing. It was just who I was. I also admit m experiences nurtured that natural part of me.

It's just not questioned in the same way.

Having a desire that is simply part of you and being able to express and fulfill that desire are different things.

As I said before, someone can have a desire to give up control of their life to another person in service, but if you have spent a large portion of your life making your own decisions and being in control, you are going to have to unlearn some of those behaviors in order to express and fulfill those desires.

You can have a desire to take control and be in charge of an interpersonal relationship, but a lack of self confidence can impede one's ability to express and fulfill that desire.

My desire or my "dominance" or my "dominant heart" or whatever is something that's simply a part of me and has always been there, but in order to express that dominance and fulfill those desires, I changed a lot about myself.

I improved self confidence, became more assertive, more demanding, reconditioned myself to let loose primal desires that I had always repressed as "bad" (face slapping, pulling hair, throwing the girls around"). I stopped being a "nice guy" and going "Uh...uh...you want to do this now?" and began simply taking charge of things.

All dominants in some shape or form have learned or changed things about themselves in order to express that part of their selfs, but most don't admit because saying that you had to learn to be dominant is an insult to the ego thanks to the false mantra of "If it's not 100% completely super duper natural, then your not real."

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/4/2008 8:47:05 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:45:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

GS, when did you first recognize you had a "slave heart" and not just a submissive one?

I find this an interesting statement. Did you mean the "just" as "submissive hearts are common and less special" and "slave hearts are rare and valuable"? I'm afraid that's how it reads from here, but I can't really see how one would be superior to the other (if either exists).

Don't read more into my statement than there is. It was NOT to imply one is superior to the other. I used the word "just" to qualify the submissive up to whatever point it is where it changes from submission to slavery.

Is it wrong to say one can be a submissive, but not necessarily a slave, but one cannot be a slave without being a submissive? Submission in my understanding is to a certain point not beyond what has been decided upon between a Dom/me and the sub (the whole concept of TPE). Slavery is a step beyond what typically is considered "normal" submission.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to mbes)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:46:33 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I, like others, am curious as to what the difference is.

Well simple... If it's not Natural... it's Manufactured.

Either you get it or you don't.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:48:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

If it can be said of a Dom/me, I see no reason it cannot be said of a submissive or a slave.

Just because it's said... don't make it smart or even accurate.... but hey.. if people want to jump over the cliff... knock yourself out.

I think it just alittle more accurate to dispell illusions of "Natural" this and Natural that with a more balance view that we are Both Naturally created as well as Nutured in the person we in past, present and future.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:49:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I, like others, am curious as to what the difference is.

Well simple... If it's not Natural... it's Manufactured.

Either you get it or you don't.

Which means anyone who isn't faking it is natural. Which means, unless you want to get all "one true way" about it, is everyone at my local munchs, play parties, all the forum members...

Mmmm... doesn't seem so damn special and needing another name. It's still just poetics to make us feel better about ourselves.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:52:53 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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I really don't feel like a debate here.

But, I never said that being a "Natural Dominant" or "natural submissive" was a good thing
or that it made anyone superior.
To me it is like being short, tall, slim, fat, etc.
It just is.
It is people that tend to create judgements and then begin the "special" and "superior" crap.

Sometimes, I can certainly see it as a liability, especially if it is to the extreme.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:54:27 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Mmmm... doesn't seem so damn special and needing another name. It's still just poetics to make us feel better about ourselves.

I agree.... and at it's worse it's used to uplift a person at the expense of the "less than natural" (the Politically correct term for "Fake")

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/4/2008 8:55:59 PM >

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:54:49 PM

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I think a few people are confusing internal desire and external expression.

You can't manufacture desire, but I am pretty sure 90% of the people who take on the label, have some kind of desire that compelled them to the label in the first place.

That brings me back to my oringal question of what is the difference between the Natural Ones and the Non-Natural ones.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:55:10 PM

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So what is point of saying naturally submissive or natural slave instead of simply slave or submissive? Why slave heart? Do we have X heart for every passion that we have in life (which is me is pretty damn poetic and not serious)?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 6/4/2008 8:56:44 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:56:25 PM

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Frankly we all should just surrender to me, as I have a switch heart, not just a master or slave heart. It's so sad that so many slaves are trapped into their natural state and cannot experience the bliss of vanilla relationships or switching.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:56:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
I never said that being a "Natural Dominant" or "natural submissive" was a good thing

Unfortanely, until you answer my questions, then none of us can know what kind of thing they are.

I don't think asking people to define the phrases they throw around as fact in a discussion is all that outrageous of a question

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MzMia)

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