RE: Natural Slavery

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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:57:16 PM

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I think I could propose to you right now...

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 8:57:31 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So what is point of saying naturally submissive or natural slave instead of simply slave or submissive? Why slave heart? Do we have X heart for every passion that we have in life?

As I said many threads ago, I DO believe some people have a "submissive HEART" and some people
have a "Dominant HEART".
And passion is a very good description for it, but it is even beyond passion, it is to the core.
It is who you are and many can not change it.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:00:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So what is point of saying naturally submissive or natural slave instead of simply slave or submissive? Why slave heart? Do we have X heart for every passion that we have in life?

As I said many threads ago, I DO believe some people have a "submissive HEART" and some people
have a "Dominant HEART".
And passion is a very good description for it, but it is even beyond passion, it is to the core.
It is who you are and many can not change it.

That doesn't answer my questions at all. Unless you are qualifying what makes someone else a submissive or dominant, there is no need to further seperate people.

Also I asked: Do you believe we have X heart for every passion we have in life? Do I have an artist's heart as well as a slave heart because I have a passion for painting in addition to serving?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:00:28 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I think I could propose to you right now...

Heh wonder how Val would take that...

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:00:56 PM

mbes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton
Don't read more into my statement than there is. It was NOT to imply one is superior to the other. I used the word "just" to qualify the submissive up to whatever point it is where it changes from submission to slavery.

Is it wrong to say one can be a submissive, but not necessarily a slave, but one cannot be a slave without being a submissive? Submission in my understanding is to a certain point not beyond what has been decided upon between a Dom/me and the sub (the whole concept of TPE). Slavery is a step beyond what typically is considered "normal" submission.

Come to think of it, yes, I believe it's possible to be a slave without being either particularly submissive, or "a submissive". I should, since I'm not really submissive at all in the ways that many seem to use the word, but my preference is to be owned. I'm one of those quirky ones that doesn't fit in any of the little boxes well.
I don't see any role as inherently superior to, or "more" than, or beyond any other. The only difference is which roles fit best.
Fun discussion, though!

< Message edited by mbes -- 6/4/2008 9:01:20 PM >

(in reply to SirKaton)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:01:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So what is point of saying naturally submissive or natural slave instead of simply slave or submissive? Why slave heart? Do we have X heart for every passion that we have in life?

As I said many threads ago, I DO believe some people have a "submissive HEART" and some people
have a "Dominant HEART".
And passion is a very good description for it, but it is even beyond passion, it is to the core.
It is who you are and many can not change it.

So what you are saying is that some people have an orientation for a particular kind of dynamic that cannot be changed, similar to homosexual and heterosexual?

Isn't that as redundant as saying homosexual and heart of a homosexual?

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The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

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(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:01:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I, like others, am curious as to what the difference is. I would regard all of us to be natural submissives/slaves/doms/owners/whatthefuckevers. I highly doubt any of us went and got 500 ccs of MEGADOM or INSTASUB injected into us. I am "naturally submissive". Just like all the others. Which makes the phrase, in my view, pointless.

Some are naturally drawn to art, math, sciences, caregiving, baking, etc. You can even hear them refered to as having a "poet's soul" or an "artist's soul". Yet everyone I have known in these artistic fields knew not to take these poetic terms seriously because, in the end, that is all they are: poetics.

I'll look to my vanilla life to answer. I was one that was naturally drawn to math and science-it was second nature for me. Growing up (and I still am), a bonafide geek at heart. Along the way, in the midst of doing what I always did, I sought out non-logical challenges and discovered "art". I wasn't natural at it and had to work to nurture and grow in that realm to the point 20+ years later, while I am a professional left-brained engineer, I am also a right-brained semi-professional musician. Nature and nurture.

I've met submissives who their entire life never showed a penitent bone in their body but at some point may actively sought out and learned about what submission is about. Is that natural? Or did they nurture that?

Yes, at the end of the day, no matter what label we put, we are who we are. Not everyone got here the same way and for some, this is a conscious decision. My question simply was asking are there among us who feel that being a "slave" is something they are compelled to do, just like some believe they are and have always been submissive, just like some believe they are and have always been a Dom/me.

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....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:02:28 PM

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No disagreement really. I'd be a fool if I thought life experiences didn't account for SOME of this...

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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:02:47 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I think I could propose to you right now...

Heh wonder how Val would take that...

I asked. He just shrugged and said "Ok".

He's just not really jealous. So whaddya say... Vegas?

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:03:07 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Frankly we all should just surrender to me, as I have a switch heart, not just a master or slave heart. It's so sad that so many slaves are trapped into their natural state and cannot experience the bliss of vanilla relationships or switching.

There is no such thing as a switch heart!
Because I don't believe it and only the things that I believe in can exist, damn it!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:03:48 PM

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I say no to marriage, yes to Vegas and having more excuses to go to the East Coast :)

I guess I just don't have a natural wife's heart.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 6/4/2008 9:04:10 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:04:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

So what is point of saying naturally submissive or natural slave instead of simply slave or submissive? Why slave heart? Do we have X heart for every passion that we have in life?

Is there a problem with feeling good about oneself and their relationship? I don't think so... unfortunately... wayyyyy to often people delude themselves... So In a context of a relationship... I think it's great to say... I am so naturally Dominant with this person... or I am so naturally submissive with this Person. but not to loose the reality that alot of things came together for that relationship to be so comfortable etc. That there was conditioning and nuturing that refined what is just raw internal desires.

Just because someone has all that Natural talent within them..... doesn't mean that such talent is ever realized successfully. It will and does need to be nutured to maximize that talent of the person. Depending on one's life experience... some natural talent will never be realized..... Do you ever wonder how many Bach's we never heard because they are born without an opportunity to play an instrument. What is natural is rather pointlless without the Nuturing to harvest it and sometimes the nuturing is just dumb luck

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:07:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
There is no such thing as a switch heart!
Because I don't believe it and only the things that I believe in can exist, damn it!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Very cute.

But Mia, you should understand- no one here is saying "the concept of feeling a deep connection to one's self and natural inclination towards certain relationship orientations" do not exist.

We are simply saying that the specific concepts of "slave heart" and "natural slave" are redundant, and hold no real value except to allow people to feel special and superior for whatever their orientation happens to be.

Why do we not ask about vanilla hearts and natural vanillas? Why do we not say "I have the heart of a homosexual"?

The answers to those questions are the reasons I reject these concepts as well.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:07:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

All dominants in some shape or form have learned or changed things about themselves in order to express that part of their selfs, but most don't admit because saying that you had to learn to be dominant is an insult to the ego thanks to the false mantra of "If it's not 100% completely super duper natural, then your not real."

Gotcha on the first part-well said...

Not here. I readily admit that while I've always been like this, as I gained experiences to be able to wrap words around, I changed and grew into the one I am today.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:14:41 PM

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Joined: 3/31/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes

Come to think of it, yes, I believe it's possible to be a slave without being either particularly submissive, or "a submissive". I should, since I'm not really submissive at all in the ways that many seem to use the word, but my preference is to be owned. I'm one of those quirky ones that doesn't fit in any of the little boxes well.
I don't see any role as inherently superior to, or "more" than, or beyond any other. The only difference is which roles fit best.
Fun discussion, though!

Fun indeed.

Far be it from me to try to put you in a box (and this is purely an educational question, not a challenge), but how can one be owed if they do not submit their will to that of their owner?

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to mbes)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:15:49 PM

Posts: 14867
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I say no to marriage, yes to Vegas and having more excuses to go to the East Coast :)

I guess I just don't have a natural wife's heart.

1 outta 2 ain't bad.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:19:04 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
There is no such thing as a switch heart!
Because I don't believe it and only the things that I believe in can exist, damn it!
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Very cute.

But Mia, you should understand- no one here is saying "the concept of feeling a deep connection to one's self and natural inclination towards certain relationship orientations" do not exist.

We are simply saying that the specific concepts of "slave heart" and "natural slave" are redundant, and hold no real value except to allow people to feel special and superior for whatever their orientation happens to be.

Why do we not ask about vanilla hearts and natural vanillas? Why do we not say "I have the heart of a homosexual"?

The answers to those questions are the reasons I reject these concepts as well.

There is my very bright LA.
But again the funny thing is PEOPLE assume that it is a good thing.
It really can be a liability.
I can think of many cases where many would be better OFF, if they were not that way at all.
I sometimes wish I could be a switch or even a submissive.
Many people go down in flames because they are NOT flexible.
I also believe you can have a "homosexual heart".
lol
You can have a "heart" for anything.
Some people have asshole "hearts", some people have criminal "hearts".
In the end, isn't it all semantics?
Or the "nature" vs. "nurture" arguement?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/4/2008 9:20:51 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:19:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

1 outta 2 ain't bad.

Hell... if your getting Laid... 1 outta 3 is good enough

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:20:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
But Mia, you should understand- no one here is saying "the concept of feeling a deep connection to one's self and natural inclination towards certain relationship orientations" do not exist.

Perhaps that is how I should phrased the original question/comment...

That is really the gist of what I am asking. Labels notwithstanding, we believe it exists for Dom/mes and submissives. Can the same be said for slaves...

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 9:22:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
In the end, isn't it all semantics?

Only for people who use words as fantasy playtoys, instead of connecting them to the real lives of real people.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to MzMia)

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