Face slapping - how hard a limit?

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Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:08:43 AM

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There's an old thread in P&RS on slapping the face. It's interesting to see the responses are so overwhelmingly along the lines of "slap me and I'll slap back".

I think I've slapped a sub's face (other than in play where she's asked for it) about three times only in my life. On each occasion we were fooling around but gradually a fun, cheeky response became inappropriate; I was being firm, sub was being cheeky and not paying attention. So bang - an angry slap (not hard, not dangerous, mildly firm).

On two occasions it was what was needed - a sharp pull back to the reality of submission. On one occasion I got the response mentioned frequently in the thread - she slapped back.

It completely and irrevocably altered my perception of our relationship. If she feels she can slap me, fine; we're just two adults relating one to another. I don't like it, she doesn't like it - no big deal. But, in my mind it was a mega earth-shattering moment, she was no longer mine, clearly never had been; she was just a friend.

And the way I feel about a sub and the way I feel about a friend - two hugely different relationships. Friends are very important to me. Subs are - well on a completely different higher level; "important" just doesn't say enough.

Of course there are different relationships - one can be a sub "playing" with a dominant person, or one can be a sub with "your own" dom. (Do I mean a twue sub?).

Maybe we doms should get this included in the dom manual - at a suitable point, reasonably early in the relationship, slap sub to assess her subliness. Instant obedience, shocked breakdown into tears - fine; test passed. A slap back - failure and withdrawal of her sub card.

But I'd be interested to hear whether those (and there are many) who say it's a hard limit mean a limit in casual play or a limit with their dom.

RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:30:10 AM

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So, if I don't let you slap me, I'm not a sub? Is that what your saying? Interesting.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:35:25 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So, if I don't let you slap me, I'm not a sub? Is that what your saying? Interesting.

i don't think that is what he is saying at all...

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:40:10 AM

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I didn't think so until I read the this

"Maybe we doms should get this included in the dom manual - at a suitable point, reasonably early in the relationship, slap sub to assess her subliness. Instant obedience, shocked breakdown into tears - fine; test passed. A slap back - failure and withdrawal of her sub card. "

Sorry but it would be reflex for me to slap back. Has nothing to do with whether or not I am submissive.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:40:33 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

So, if I don't let you slap me, I'm not a sub? Is that what your saying? Interesting.

You haven't got it - "If I slap you (unlikely) and you slap back, you're not my sub" is closer to my view. But the question was what's your view?

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:41:14 AM

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Well that certainly is your right.

Edited to add: Maybe you should leave that part out of the manual then, unless the manual is only for you.

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 8/3/2008 4:42:13 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:46:25 AM

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If he slapped me out of anger (in the middle of an arguement) i would not return the favor, nor would i give in to the temptation to kick him squarely in the nuts. But it might be a deal breaker. We have an understanding that he will never raise his hand to me in anger.
If he slaps me during a scene...i love it.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:50:02 AM

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I agree with you. Slapping back, perhaps even the thought of slapping him back - would negate our relationship.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 4:51:46 AM

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Interesting question SD. I started a thread a couple days ago about an incident that occurred during an interchange between me and my new Sir. I have always loved face slapping but the punitive feel of it or perhaps fast secession of the slaps triggered something in me. A Flashback, emotional land mine and I got quite out of sorts. I still want to engage in face slapping but we will proceed differently.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2042932/mpage_1/tm.htm

I didn't slap back, I said, "daddy, I didn't like that at all".
So I guess I still get to keep my twue subbie card?

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:09:24 AM

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I understand what you are saying SD... and yes, it would certainly change the entire dynamics of the situation for me. A return slap would tell me that the sub feels to be on an equal basis, not D/s.

Yes, the sub may still feel they are sub, but they couldn't possibly be my sub.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:15:20 AM

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(apologies for formatting n typos...typing one handed due to broken arm)

There is face slapping in our Ds relationship dynamic.
Much like being flogged or whipped, it is part of the erotic and passion ie bdsm.......not punishment....and certainly not used because Tyson is angry or frustrated ( at or with me ).

On the few occassions when I have needed punishment, as in behavior modification, his implements are not used. He keeps those separate and therefore separate in my brain and how my mind and body react to his use of them. His hand is the same and an implement if you will.

NO ONE strikes me out of anger, rage...their fear...or frustration with me. (that to me is a sign of their lack of control not control )... If they did and I reacted in kind> they don't need to be concerned with whether or not that makes me "their submissive" or " a submissive" ....because they would no longer be my dominant.
btw the "in kind" of my reaction if it happened> would probably not be a slap and more than likely connect a little lower than his face.

Do I slap back, when he slaps during passion or "play" ?
no. It does one of 2 things to me..
makes me very calm, focused, quiet and humble..like something I cannot purge on my own from inside me has suddenly been purged from my body..and i feel a rush of calm and peace take its place..........or
sends me over the edge of my passion and I tend more ( Im told) to bite and scratch when that happens. It depends on his mood and mindset and where he has put me/mine when he introduces it.

hope that makes sense.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:29:55 AM

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What do I think? It sounds to me like you let a situation get out of control and then used coercion to re-gain control. Twice it worked. Once it didn't. Good for the lady who slapped back.

I wouldn't slap back in such circumstances. I would walk out.

Remember, its volunfuckentary submission and confuckingsensual slavery. If you need to slap someone to get or maintain it, its thuggery, not D/s.

To address the implied question at the bottom of the op: Controlled face slapping in the context of play isn't a hard limit for me. I have a low tolerance for it and don't really like it, but I play around with it if my play partner wants to so long as they're careful and are sensitive to my cues concerning when I'm approaching overload. Being slapped (or punched, or kicked, or otherwise physically assaulted) in the heat of a 'real' conflict, as a knee jerk reaction to something I've done isn't so much a limit as a deal breaker.

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 8/3/2008 6:47:11 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:32:03 AM

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sorry double post

< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 8/3/2008 5:33:43 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:38:12 AM

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He has slapped me when I've forgotten a particular protocol in our relationship. It's not done in anger, but as a reminder because sometimes I just get caught up in the moment. He has also slapped me during rough sex.

I love it and it puts me in a dreamy, hot headspace and/or brings my focus back to where it should be.

But not long ago He was softly stroking my face and noticed just the faintest of evidence of an old bruise. On some occasion when He had slapped me it had left a very, and I mean very light bruise. No one would ever notice it unless they invaded my personal space. But it seemed to bother Him that He had left a mark on my face. He said He loved my face and didn't want to leave marks on it. He hasn't slapped me since, although I'm hoping that He will still do it.

I would never, ever dream of slapping Him back, nor do I think it's in me to do such a thing. That would cross a line that, for me, would make me question what was happening mentally and emotionally...... and would have a lasting, detrimental effect on our relationship.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 5:53:01 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

What do I think? It sounds to me like you let a situation get out of control and then used coercion to re-gain control. Twice it worked. Once it didn't. Good for the lady who slapped back.

I wouldn't slap back in such circumstances. I would walk out.

Remember, its volunfuckentary submission and confuckingsensual slavery. If you need to slap someone to get or maintain it, its thuggery, not D/s.

I've got the same response.
Someone (any one) slaps me across my face and I am walking the other way.

My jaw is absolutely off limits for any kind of impact play, if someone that I am involved with loses perspective or their temper enough to forget that my jaw is so off limits then in no way do I want to be near that person. I would not trust that person again. It is a very serious issue.

For me it has nothing to do with dominance or submission, it is simply something that is off limits for life.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 6:15:11 AM

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I definitely would not consider her any 'less' of a sub.
I like a sub worthy of being dominated. As such, if she slaps me back I would probably tell her to bend over, she's being spanked for slapping me.

Even with repeated defiance, I would simply state that I don't think our relationship is working out, not claim she is any less of a sub.

Finally may I point out that if you are not dominating a woman, than there are two possibilities: 1. she is not being an effective sub. or 2. you are not being an effective dom. But just as failing to sub once does not make you a 'fake' sub, failing to dominante a woman once does not make you a fake dom. Do not be so quick to assign the blame to her, or to ascribe a permanent change in status to a single instance.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 6:21:30 AM

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I would never slap a sub's face for correction.
I would think of it as failing to manage MY own anger, although I would totally do it to an annoying vanilla!

However, as said above, completely different when I'm aroused: My leather-clad hand, any of his cheeks, but only after it's been discussed as a limit.
Ahhhh, an attractive naked kneeling or bound man with slightly beestung lips blissing out and begging for another. . .

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 6:24:21 AM

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I think this is where negotitation comes in. I know hardcore masochists who don't like tickling and having their belly buttons touched. I know some of the meanest sadists who kiss the bruises they make on their submissives as their form of aftercare. Those things don't change anything about their titles or limits. It just means that everyone draws the line at different things. Face slapping is intense, invasive and personal even if the slap doesn't hurt. It has such a violent reaction in most people that I would think that someone should ask if their submissive has some issue with it.

Allowing or not allowing shouldn't be prove of anyone's submission. And I think if a Dom/Top slapped someone who never seemed interested in that type of play before without discussing it, I'd probably recommend ducking quickly afterwards.

< Message edited by Aliceiscurious -- 8/3/2008 7:02:44 AM >

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 6:44:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aliceiscurious

I think this is where negotitation comes in. I know hardcore masochists who don't like tickling and having their belly buttons touched. I mean some of the meanest sadists who kiss the bruises they make on their submissives as their form of aftercare. Those things don't change anything about their titles or limits. It just means that everyone draws the line at different things. ...

Allowing or not allowing shouldn't be prove of anyone's submission. And I think if a Dom/Top slapped someone who never seemed interested in that type of play before without discussing it, I'd probably recommend ducking quickly afterwards.

I agree with the tickling argument. I don't like to tickled either and would much rather have the crop or cane. Everybody is different and it is important to lay out the ground rules and limits from the begining.

Face slapping in play and for domestic punishment is perfectlly reasonable in O/our relationship and clearly that was not the case with the woman who slapped back. Just because you are a Dom/me doesn't give you the right to duck your responsibilities. Hitting somebody out of anger is still hitting somebody out of anger.

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RE: Face slapping - how hard a limit? - 8/3/2008 6:47:18 AM

sambamanslilgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

Maybe we doms should get this included in the dom manual - at a suitable point, reasonably early in the relationship, slap sub to assess her subliness. Instant obedience, shocked breakdown into tears - fine; test passed. A slap back - failure and withdrawal of her sub card.

i guess i should return my submissive card because face slapping is a hard limit for me.

yes, i will react and slap you back - i truly don't care if it makes me look less subbly in your eyes however i'm the type who will defend herself - play or not.

< Message edited by sambamanslilgirl -- 8/3/2008 6:49:35 AM >

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