quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

I wish Irished, the original poster, would come back to update. Hate a mystery. There were two generalized sets of advice offered him. One was to take it very slow, research, make a plan, and not pop up one day with a full confession using a hot button word like "slave". The other advice was along the lines of tell all, tell now, open communication, sit down and talk etc. So of course he picked the second choice and it left him miserable.

quote:

Re: cheating and betrayal. Is it so impossible to tell the wife you want to see a bdsm expert, that you have no idea if these things are going to be fun between the two of you, that maybe it's not as fun as it seems, that injury is a possibility in experiments with spouses were neither has any experience. Thinking as a vanilla wife, which I was for awhile, I would listen to a reasonable suggestion. I'd ask questions about the person's qualifications that my husband wanted to see. I'd be relieved maybe that he would take this experiment someplace else, and let me know what happened. Some males like to take a ski trip.. or go with friends to an expensive football game--the pro domme fee's about the same as that. Many wives don't object to expenses a male incurs, esp if they don't want to go themselves.

quote:

As long as the wife is informed that there is no penetration, no sex acts as she would understand a sex act, I think many wives would think it over and say, ok, just one time and then you tell me about it. I never heard of any guy trying this, the advice is usually to hide the action. Deceit, lying--is what hurts. Not so much the action itself as the deceit involved. Why does no one ever make this suggestion? To get the wife's ok on a one-time visit to a bdsm expert (yeah let's not use terms like dominatrix.. just a therapuetic worker who is an expert in fetishes.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

Re: cheating and betrayal. Is it so impossible to tell the wife you want to see a bdsm expert, that you have no idea if these things are going to be fun between the two of you, that maybe it's not as fun as it seems, that injury is a possibility in experiments with spouses were neither has any experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove
As long as the wife is informed that there is no penetration, no sex acts as she would understand a sex act, I think many wives would think it over and say, ok, just one time and then you tell me about it. I never heard of any guy trying this, the advice is usually to hide the action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove
Deceit, lying--is what hurts. Not so much the action itself as the deceit involved. Why does no one ever make this suggestion? To get the wife's ok on a one-time visit to a bdsm expert (yeah let's not use terms like dominatrix.. just a therapuetic worker who is an expert in fetishes.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove

I wish Irished, the original poster, would come back to update. Hate a mystery. There were two generalized sets of advice offered him. One was to take it very slow, research, make a plan, and not pop up one day with a full confession using a hot button word like "slave". The other advice was along the lines of tell all, tell now, open communication, sit down and talk etc. So of course he picked the second choice and it left him miserable.

I'm curious as to how you are making this determination.  Did I miss something on this thread somewhere?

Well at one point he came back, he said he laid it out to his wife, that he wanted to be her slave, that she said she had no interest and he felt miserable. Course I could have my head up my ass and I got that confused with another, but I am pretty sure it was the OP who indicated the outcome of his "sitdown and open up" session wasn't successful.

MsMIllgrove said:
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quote:

As long as the wife is informed that there is no penetration, no sex acts as she would understand a sex act, I think many wives would think it over and say, ok, just one time and then you tell me about it. I never heard of any guy trying this, the advice is usually to hide the action. Deceit, lying--is what hurts. Not so much the action itself as the deceit involved. Why does no one ever make this suggestion? To get the wife's ok on a one-time visit to a bdsm expert (yeah let's not use terms like dominatrix.. just a therapuetic worker who is an expert in fetishes.)

LadyPact replied:
You're correct that I don't suggest that folks go to see a pro specifically, though I have quite often suggested that folks go out and meet others in the local community for it.  In My opinion, there is a greater assurance for the vanilla wife at home that there won't be any sexual release for the male because many public clubs don't permit it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove
As long as the wife is informed that there is no penetration, no sex acts as she would understand a sex act, I think many wives would think it over and say, ok, just one time and then you tell me about it. I never heard of any guy trying this, the advice is usually to hide the action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

That sounds reasonable in theory but wouldn't work in practice. The problem for us married guys is that if we told our wives that we wanted to see a bdsm expert they would automatically think we wanted to see a whore. Then of course they would wonder how long we have been having sex with whores. It would create a chain of trouble.

Of course a certain percentage of wives would be open to the idea, but it's a risky gamble for guys to take. Doing it on the sly seems far less risky.

Also, the mere mention of BDSM could disrupt a marriage -- especially if the husband isn't sure he wants that kind of arrangement. Visiting a pro allows him to find out for himself if that kind of thing works for him. Look at it as a test run.

Another alternative would be to ask the wife to watch so she would have no reason to be suspicious. I'm sure there are pitfalls with that one too.

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

There is more to being a man than just opening doors and lifting heavy objects for a Lady.  There is -honor- and -duty- and -fealty-.  Fealty not only to the word you have given to "love and honor", but also to the very essence of being a man - which says that you do not shirk responsibility, you do not go back on your word, and you certainly do not sneak, lie, or betray one to whom you have sworn yourself to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove
Ah true, but in the public clubs I go to, it's kind of a mindblower for a firstimer. They do look a bit shell shocked on their first visits. I suppose that if the male went first with a friendly kinkster.. maybe he could feel more confident in bringing his wife over for a look. It's a good idea.


LadyPact, I appreciate your feedback and others because I was trying to imagine myself inside the vanilla wife head and what solutions would be practical. I am inundated with married males. I even have a sub who is married (with the wife's full permission and knowledge) so I am very interested to figure out, is there any hope in this dilemna on how to handle the situation. I think it comes down to specifics that suit the couple involved and not necesarily a generalized "plan" of action.

I am dead set against using words from the bdsm lexicon that will turn off the vanilla wife, there's ways you can phrase things that will frighten them, disgust them and I truly believe that any man who hopes for a good outcome should stay away from the all the bdsm buzz words and try to sound as vanilla as he can. I am actually against talking if the truth be told and think that silent methods of action to the wife like pampering her fully, helping around the house and serving her like the Queen she is--is a much better first step then talking about it.

Again thank you for your excellent, thoughtful reply.

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ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

There is more to being a man than just opening doors and lifting heavy objects for a Lady.  There is -honor- and -duty- and -fealty-.  Fealty not only to the word you have given to "love and honor", but also to the very essence of being a man - which says that you do not shirk responsibility, you do not go back on your word, and you certainly do not sneak, lie, or betray one to whom you have sworn yourself to.

You are quite an idealist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The serious problem with threads on this particular subject is that they are often used for justification for a married male's choosing the option of cheating, lying, or visiting a pro behind the wife's back.  Even when a number of folks come forward to say that it doesn't have to be that way, and are a perfectly legitimate example of why it can work, there's always some <cough> submissive who wants to go on about why being unscrupulous is the answer.

Otters, thankfully, we have you to counter balance them.

Now, learn to take a compliment, and say "thank you".

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

Now tell me what a prude I am... how cruel the dominant's around here are and all that dishonorable you got buddy. I could expect no less from you.

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My reasoning on this thread is very sound, especially considering the original question asked. Sometimes there is a good reason for not letting the old lady know.

What Otter wrote is just fine, but it's idealistic and naive, and was probably more of an attempt to appeal to the women here that like to trash men that want something outside of their marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The serious problem with threads on this particular subject is that they are often used for justification for a married male's choosing the option of cheating, lying, or visiting a pro behind the wife's back.  Even when a number of folks come forward to say that it doesn't have to be that way, and are a perfectly legitimate example of why it can work, there's always some <cough> submissive who wants to go on about why being unscrupulous is the answer.

Otters, thankfully, we have you to counter balance them.

Now, learn to take a compliment, and say "thank you".

My reasoning on this thread is very sound, especially considering the original question asked. Sometimes there is a good reason for not letting the old lady know.

quote:

What Otter wrote is just fine, but it's idealistic and naive, and was probably more of an attempt to appeal to the women here that like to trash men that want something outside of their marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

Now tell me what a prude I am... how cruel the dominant's around here are and all that dishonorable you got buddy. I could expect no less from you.

I have no way of knowing if you are a prude, but you are quite a traditionalist  and very judgemental when it comes to this cheating thing.

Yes, the dominants here are cruel, but that's to be expected and is OK with me. I'm sure you have a soft heart sometimes and I am sure you would hug and kiss me if you met me in person.