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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 12:59:21 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

MsMillgrove


A study like you suggest would be very good material for a PhD thesis. I am skeptical that 6 of the women would be that open minded, but of course who is to say?

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 1:02:04 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Yes, I'm very harsh in My words, but I have to tell you that I have greater sympathy for your wife than I have for you.  If you should ever change your thinking and your actions, that may be different.  But until that time that you are willing to see the ramifications of potential harm that you would inflict, in fact are specifically attempting to inflict by continuing your pursuit, I'll have no better opinion.




Yeah, of course you sympathize with the female. That's to be expected.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 1:14:51 AM   
hazze


Posts: 9
Joined: 8/22/2008
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You owe it to her and yourself to try and bring this into your relationship.

Just be gentle and slow in introducing things.

If she's completly new to BDSM and you give her a long list of things she must do to you, it will make her think you don't care about her as a person, all you want is a body to perform various kinky sex acts.
So try and gently introduce these games into the relationship.
I've found its fairly easy to get a little bit of kink into any relationship if you make it natrual and fun.
I find tickling and spanking is a good way to start things of, and a lot of fun.
Then maybe try sensation play, her biting your neck or nipples or squeezing your balls a bit. All part of sensual vanilla sex.
Don't be afraid to experiment, spank her and play with her. This maybe counter-intuative but it helps her understand why you like these things and that they can be fun as part of a loving relationship.

Be reasonable. Overnight she's not going to turn into a whip wielding monster who wants to torture you 24/7. All you'll do is alienate her. But in time who knows.

Be honest, let her know your desires without scaring her, but let her dip her feet into bdsm slowly.

Be prepared to compromise. Your in a relationship. You need to find something that suits the both of you. If she agrees to try all but one of your fetishes, then enjoy all the stuff she does do, rather than fighting on the one she won't. You may find goodwill and honestly gets you more of what you want than pushing.


If nouthing works then think really hard.
You owe your wife a honesty. Tell her how important this is to you, and suggest she offers ways to dip into it at her own pace.

Think long and carefully about going to see another mistress. It may help you to bottom out your desrires but it could also destroy your relationship, and your betraying the person you are supposed to love.

(in reply to steffie)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 1:16:21 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

At any rate, I do acknowledge that you are in a lousy situation, and you are not alone. Maybe you can find some married gal who is looking, and be sneaky together! It can happen.


I hope you are right!

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 1:18:32 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It seriously isn't that difficult to find a play partner at most groups and events.  If that's all someone wants, it isn't that hard to find.  The problem with it is, most people going behind the back of someone else aren't really just doing it for the bondage or the S/m.  They want the sexual exploration too, and THAT is why they don't want to tell the little woman at home.



That probably depends on your location. From what I have seen it is very difficult to find a partner for these things unless you have a partner that's willing to swing.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 1:22:24 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

Your ability to justify infidelity is truly impressive, if not particularly original. In any case, the vast majority of older women I know who aren't having sex with their husbands haven't lost interest in sex, they've lost interest in their partners. Maybe men need to step up their game a bit when they get older, too, huh?

You really ought to come clean with your wife. Perhaps she'll welcome having a reason to get rid of you. I know I would, were I in her shoes.


I doubt I need to give her another reason.

If you are right about older women then there sure are a lot of women who have lost interest in their partners. That phenomenon could be biology too. 

(in reply to Venatrix)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 5:52:07 AM   
OttersSwim


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My Lady and I have been discussing this whole topic quite a bit and the subject has sparked some interesting conversation and thoughts.

I think that one of the main reasons that subjects that involve issues of "integrity" get so much play here is because -integrity- is an essential element in WIIWD.

From the sub/slave side, if you are going to let someone put you into a compromising position, you want to know that the person whom you are with has integrity, that you can trust them in any situation, and that they will be a fitting partner for you - in word AND in deed.

From the Dom/Domme side, you want to know that the person you are letting into your life can be trusted, has integrity, and will be a fitting partner for you - in word AND in deed.

Evidence of a lack of integrity or refusal to be authentic and true to self, are red-flags that come up during evaluation on both sides of the kneel and is likely a GIANT factor in finding someone compatible for you.

If you are at a stage in your life where you either lack integrity or authenticity, then you are compromised in your ability to keep your word, and your deeds do not show trustworthiness. 

You will not be selected not only because of the complications that your situation presents, but the fact that it reflects on your character that you are not someone who can be trusted - in word, or in deed.

As I said earlier, we do not always act with integrity in our lives.  It is vital that we recognize that integrity and authenticity are absolutely essential to -getting what we want-, and are IMO a key element to happiness.  This is true in any aspect of life, and certainly in WIIWD.

If you are in a place of compromise in either integrity or authenticity, then you can do one of two things - change your reality, or lower your expectations...in -yourself-.  Changing your reality will likely involve some amount of tumult and pain.  Lowering your expectations in yourself simply drags out the inevitable and increases the pain and tumult, IMO, and it puts you in a "when did I become -that- guy?"  place that you simply do not want to be in your life.

I have some experience with this as has been said earlier.  I spent 17 years in a marriage where the sex died after year 5, and while I did maintain my integrity, I was compromised on my authenticity to -self-.  I have spent the past year ending that marriage so that I can be true to my authentic self and embrace the duality of my gender identity.  There is a lot of pain and much tumult involved in this as anyone who has gone through a divorce can attest to.

But I can say that I also have never been happier in my life than where I am today.




_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to azjojoba)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 6:46:05 AM   
Venatrix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba


If you are right about older women then there sure are a lot of women who have lost interest in their partners. That phenomenon could be biology too. 



Absolutely! After all, you've never struck me as a person who's wanted to take any personal responsibility for the mess he's at least partially created. Biology makes a convenient scapegoat, certainly.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 12/14/2009 6:48:06 AM >

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 9:09:05 AM   
LadyPact


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Lots of interesting comments (though some predictable) since I was on this thread yesterday.  Since most of the comments that I'd like to touch on are within the last page or two, I'm going to save Myself the additional work and not go back and quote.  Please understand that I am making My comments in relation to BDSM.  Not swinging and not casual sex.  In My personal opinion, these are three different topics and I would have different answers in addressing each of them.

On the subject of finding casual BDSM partners, I am looking at My own personal experience.  There are a lot of people out there who don't participate in casual play and I completely understand that.  When I'm using the term casual play, I'm referring to engaging in BDSM with any range of persons from didn't know them before you met at a BDSM club or event spanning through friends that just happen to match you in a top/bottom sort of way.  With that said, I have never encountered a lack of play partners, either through local groups and even places where I had never met anyone before.  I don't think that has anything to do with locations, as it's held true for Me from one side of the country to the other.  I just haven't come up short on people willing to let Me beat them.

Do I think some of that hinges on gender?  Yes, I do.  I think it's more difficult for male tops to find bottoms than female tops.  I tend to think that's even more correct when the male top isn't well acquainted with the potential bottom.  I don't have personal experience from the bottom side, with the exception of what I've observed over the years.  I do know that there are some bottoms who don't have a problem finding casual tops if they attend groups regularly or get to the club on a regular basis.  Female bottoms have more success in this area (from My observation) than males, but it doesn't mean that males are excluded in this area. 

That's where My gender bias on the subject ends.  It honestly doesn't matter to Me whether we're talking about a male not being honest with his spouse or a female being dishonest with hers.  All of the other subjects touched on in this thread, fidelity, integrity, and the like, aren't the responsibility of one more than the other.  For that matter, neither is sex drive.

In My opinion, sex drive doesn't rely on the desire for sex alone.  There are a lot of factors that contribute to it.  A healthy, loving relationship is going to feed into that.  When other areas of the relationship are lacking, it's going to show up in the bedroom.  Both parties contribute or don't contribute to those factors, as well as outside influences.  Things such as financial difficulty, to name just one, can also have an impact.  You can't control the outside stuff in some cases, such as a temporary drop in drive due to something like a death in the family, but you absolutely can control what kind of relationship that you have in other areas.  A good relationship isn't just two people who happen to cohabitate under the same roof where they appear to be comfortable with the bills paid.  There's a lot more to it than that.

In many cases during discussions like these, I've really wondered what would happen in that relationship at home if the party looking to 'explore' their outside interests, would take the amount of time they used to do that, and invested it in their relationship instead, if there would be an improvement.   I'm not saying that even if someone is investing 100% into their relationship that they are automatically entitled to demand BDSM at home.  Some people have no kink interest and  it's their right to be that way, just as much as kinky people who don't want to be vanilla.

So, the question goes from there.  Exactly what do you do in this situation?  I can only speak for Myself.  I'd have to start with an honest evaluation on what is really most important to Me in My life.  To Me, the BDSM isn't more important than My integrity that I owe to Myself and to the person that I married.  Neither is My sex drive for that matter.  Mine and My various interests are ones that My husband doesn't particularly share, so we have reached agreements on how to handle the matter.  That didn't happen overnight and it didn't happen because both of us didn't work on it. 

When people come on these boards and make statements like 'I don't *think* My spouse' would do this or that, it says to Me that you don't KNOW because you don't have the type of good, healthy, honest communication that would contribute better relationship at home in the first place. 




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 10:07:18 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Addressing the biological angle... libido is chemically based. Hormones have a lot to do with the physical side of desire, and women have ups and downs. For instance, the glamour that is menopause can turn off libido entirely in some women, while in others it ramps up. There are lots of other reasons for hormone levels to be off kilter. If you are not really interested in sex because the person you have sex with doesn't do it for you, you might not even notice that the physical urge is gone, because the mental one took off ages ago.

I've spoken to MANY men over the years who say that they have no sexual relationship with their spouses at all. The first thing I ask about is her health status. Then I ask the other leading questions. I wish I could say that they went and did the right thing about improving their relationships at home, but somehow, whining after strangers was always easier.

It's what keeps escort services in business, I guess.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 10:56:18 AM   
Venatrix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Evidence of a lack of integrity or refusal to be authentic and true to self, are red-flags that come up during evaluation on both sides of the kneel and is likely a GIANT factor in finding someone compatible for you.



Otters, once again, you've nailed it.  It all comes down to how you deal with the situation.  That's not to say that one marital affair is or ought to be a marriage-ending event, but it should at least be a wake-up call that the marriage is in difficulties and steps to resolve those difficulties should be taken.  Multiple affairs and spending years searching for someone outside of marriage and then complaining that women are judgemental and uninterested shows far more serious problems with integrity. 

As you've found, you don't always resolve marital problems immediately, but a person of character does at least acknowledge them and address them, rather than sneaking around, trying perenially to find a bit on the side.

(in reply to OttersSwim)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:02:31 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Addressing the biological angle... libido is chemically based. Hormones have a lot to do with the physical side of desire, and women have ups and downs. For instance, the glamour that is menopause can turn off libido entirely in some women, while in others it ramps up. There are lots of other reasons for hormone levels to be off kilter. If you are not really interested in sex because the person you have sex with doesn't do it for you, you might not even notice that the physical urge is gone, because the mental one took off ages ago.

I've spoken to MANY men over the years who say that they have no sexual relationship with their spouses at all. The first thing I ask about is her health status. Then I ask the other leading questions. I wish I could say that they went and did the right thing about improving their relationships at home, but somehow, whining after strangers was always easier.

It's what keeps escort services in business, I guess.

Some of this, I do agree with.  From the standpoint of sexual drive, I think it would be silly to say that hormonal changes don't play a part in it.  At the same time, I don't think those are sudden changes, and they are more gradual ones.  Just like I don't think that is just specific to one gender or the other.  There aren't many men out there who at fifty are able to perform with the same frequency that they did when they are twenty.  Again, though, that is something that I attibute to sex, not BDSM.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:09:27 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba


If you are right about older women then there sure are a lot of women who have lost interest in their partners. That phenomenon could be biology too. 



Absolutely! After all, you've never struck me as a person who's wanted to take any personal responsibility for the mess he's at least partially created. Biology makes a convenient scapegoat, certainly.


Americans by their nature have problems accepting that biology affects emotions such as sex drive. Feminism has driven the mere mention of it underground.

Biology is probably the most important factor when people lose interest in sex. Once their sex drive ebbs it's easy to find all sorts of other reasons to rationalize the behavior.

(in reply to Venatrix)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:12:03 AM   
azjojoba


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's what keeps escort services in business, I guess.


Yes, indeed. If women had high sex drives comparable to men, there would be almost no infidelity and prostitution.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
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RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:17:55 AM   
Venatrix


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Great.  First you blame all of your problems on women not wanting cheaters.  Then you blame them on biology.  Now you're blaming them on Americans. 

If biology really is a factor in your wife's lack of interest in you, and you keep looking for someone outside of this relationship, what stops you from doing the honest thing and leaving the marriage?  How do you justify your long-term attempts to go behind your wife's back?  You've been on this web site for almost three years.  This obviously isn't a temporary situation whilst you try to sort things out for the best.

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:20:07 AM   
Lockit


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Well I must know some horny ol broads then, because whenever one had an issue... they went and found out what was going on and got help with it. But loving and desiring their spouse to begin with was a big factor I am sure. There have been men I didn't desire and didn't want to do... but they had to do some pretty awful things to make me feel that way and I have gone through some of the most major hormonal things a woman could. In fact... so much that the doctors said I was rare and they had never seen anyone go through what I did and believe me, the only thing that kept me from wanting sex was poor behavior in a man or a bad, bad relationship.

I dated a man once who said his ex hated sex and never wanted to have it... having been with him, I could understand why she hated it. Then his daughter came to visit and stated that all her mom and second husband did was have sex. Something wrong with that story and I don't think she hated sex at all... just the person she was having it with.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:24:55 AM   
Venatrix


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Joined: 11/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's what keeps escort services in business, I guess.


Yes, indeed. If women had high sex drives comparable to men, there would be almost no infidelity and prostitution.



That's true, Azjojoba.  From what I've seen of a lot of men on this site, they have NOTHING to offer a woman but their dicks, and the amount of time they spend thinking of them is truly astonishing.  Unfortunately for men like you, most women aspire to more in life than to be a receptacle for semen.  You either need to up your game, or be condemned for the rest of your life to whining about how all of your problems are someone else's fault.

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:34:28 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's what keeps escort services in business, I guess.


Yes, indeed. If women had high sex drives comparable to men, there would be almost no infidelity and prostitution.



That's true, Azjojoba.  From what I've seen of a lot of men on this site, they have NOTHING to offer a woman but their dicks, and the amount of time they spend thinking of them is truly astonishing.  Unfortunately for men like you, most women aspire to more in life than to be a receptacle for semen.  You either need to up your game, or be condemned for the rest of your life to whining about how all of your problems are someone else's fault.


Seriously.  Az needs to realize the reality is not that "Women aren't interested in sex," it's that "Women aren't interested in sex with azjojoba."  The common denominator is him.

Akasha



_____________________________

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Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:34:38 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

quote:

ORIGINAL: azjojoba


If you are right about older women then there sure are a lot of women who have lost interest in their partners. That phenomenon could be biology too. 



Absolutely! After all, you've never struck me as a person who's wanted to take any personal responsibility for the mess he's at least partially created. Biology makes a convenient scapegoat, certainly.


Americans by their nature have problems accepting that biology affects emotions such as sex drive. Feminism has driven the mere mention of it underground.

Biology is probably the most important factor when people lose interest in sex. Once their sex drive ebbs it's easy to find all sorts of other reasons to rationalize the behavior.



I really hope you see the hypocrisy in the highlighted above.  I really do.

I don't know if biology is the most important factor.  If the other factors in a couple's relationship are going well, I think most people would be heading to the doctor to find out what's going on.  If nothing else, the other partner would be encouraging them to see if there was a medical explanation.




_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to azjojoba)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: married sub - how to tell my wife - 12/14/2009 11:36:43 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I dated a man once who said his ex hated sex and never wanted to have it... having been with him, I could understand why she hated it. Then his daughter came to visit and stated that all her mom and second husband did was have sex. Something wrong with that story and I don't think she hated sex at all... just the person she was having it with.

I think this is a completely accurate example of what happens for a lot of people.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 140
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