RE: "Old Ways"

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: "Old Ways"

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: "Old Ways"

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 3:46:54 PM

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

however when used in a profile its not meaning any of that just the protocol stuff

So you somehow magically know what people intend when they write their profiles?
If someone is going to refer to himself as an "Old Guard" master I would hope he at least understands what it is he is talking about. And if he does not, well, people will laugh.

the point is that the op actually doesnt mention old guard or leather, people just assume, therefore im not better or worse by assuming she doesnt mean for it to be turned into a huge arguement, maybe she does

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 3:56:20 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

The people I have met who practice strict protocol and formalities in their lifestyles refer to what they do as "Leather." I can't think of anyone of these legit Leatherfolk who would reference their lifestyles as being "Old Guard" or the "Old Ways".

Hello MadRabbit. Why should the expression ''old ways'' mean ''old guard''? To me it means traditional.

One may still take a public vow to ''honour and obey'' today as was done in my wedding ceremony. Some people commented that it was very ''old fashioned'' and that it is not much done ''today'' (snicker, snicker...), hence it was done the ''old way'' for many who were attending. For some? Those in my age group did not even blink an eye or even noticed that the vows were ''old way'' different than the more modern ''power neutral'' vows.

The ''old ways'' are historically very old and precede any gay group expressing itself in a semi-public setting.

As I said, the old ways reflect a prevalent way of interacting conventions some time ago (protocols, manners and the like.) Just my opinion. RL.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 4:38:00 PM

Jaird

Posts: 3
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

Sorry I caught this one a lot late. But I recomend Asking the Girl what she meant.

Jaird
Old Hetero Male
37 years in the lifestyle
But do not ask me I have no Idea any more. There isn't any woman willing to actually BE a slave.
Definition of Slave: A person that gives up all rights under the USA constitution to be a total Toy for another person. (sexually Sadistically Dominated Ect.)

(in reply to beargonewild)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 9:17:09 PM

Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline

"Old Ways" could also refer to the time when D/s and BDSM were more seperated and you did not feel as though you had to be into BDSM to have a D/s relationship.

A time when Masters in general (not all) actually trained just as subs/slaves did. They didn't call themselves a Master simply because they bought a whip. They took responcibilty for themselves and thier sub/slave. A Master who has spent time on the sub/slave side if even for an evening, is indeed a rare breed.
A time when Masters in general (not all) were not domineering but actual dominants. They (most not all) knew how to keep a sub/slave wanting and needing to please him, to make her/him happily kiss his ass and ask for more without riding their own ego.
A time when petty things like housework weren't a choice, but just part of being a sub/slave.
A time when subs/slaves had a clear defineable line between them. A sub had a few rights, a slave did not...this stopped over time as more and more women got hurt.
A time when Masters/slaves/subs sat down and talked, sometimes making out a contract.
A time when people took the time to get to know eachother if they were entering into a LTR and it wasn't all about jumping into bed on the first meeting.
A time when Masters/subs/slaves actually cared bout eachother as people.
A time when "How big are your tits?" would have been considered an unacceptable thing to ask someone when you first spoke with them.
A time when being a Master/sub/slave was a frame of mind, it was in you to be that way and not faked.
A time when sub/slaves wanted to make their Master proud more then anything.
A time when a sub/slaves state of mind and health were important to a Master.
A time when people in the lifestyle searching, treated eachother with dignity.
A time when, if you were for the most part only getting off on the BDSM factor, you were not an actual D/s relationship it was BDSM.

Yes it still exists, you just have to know where to look for it.

< Message edited by Barelily -- 10/25/2008 9:37:35 PM >

(in reply to Jaird)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 9:34:42 PM

Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barelily
...A time when Masters in general (not all) were not domineering but actual dominants. They (most not all) knew how to keep a sub/slave wanting and needing to please him, to make her/him happily kiss his ass and ask for more without riding their own ego.
A time when petty things like housework weren't a choice, but just part of being a sub/slave.
A time when Masters/slaves/subs sat down and talked, sometimes making out a contract.
A time when people took the time to get to know eachother if they were entering into a LTR and it wasn't all about jumping into bed on the first meeting.
A time when sub/slaves wanted to make their Master proud more then anything.
A time when a sub/slaves state of mind and health were important to a Master.
A time when people in the lifestyle searching, treated eachother with dignity.

Yes it still exists, you just have to know where to look for it.

I like your entire list and relate particularly strongly to the things I quoted above.

And, yeah, it still exists. I must have been looking in the right place.

< Message edited by DesertRat -- 10/25/2008 10:01:11 PM >

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 9:49:48 PM

Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline

*Kisses her Master Desertrats ass and asks for more*

< Message edited by Barelily -- 10/25/2008 9:51:55 PM >

(in reply to DesertRat)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/25/2008 10:23:17 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Just so we understand one another, could you be more specific about the time and place you're referring to.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 9:25:25 AM

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

When a friend from school asked if I was a follower of the "old ways" she meant paganism. (sorry if this has been brought up, but I didn't read the whole thread.)

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to beargonewild)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 1:21:50 PM

Posts: 127
Joined: 6/18/2008
Status: offline

Barelilly hit the nail on the head here by her post...well done by the way! And the period could have been the 80s not the ancient 50s okay. Even the 90s possibly but since the 2000`s came along it seems things have changed for some and others do follow the protocals of old.

But as people say now...."To each his own" of course follow what you want to as long as it makes you happy for nothing else matters now does it?

By the way....my hair is Grey now not Blue thank you!? lol

< Message edited by sailorfrank -- 10/26/2008 1:23:32 PM >

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 1:36:05 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sailorfrank

Barelilly hit the nail on the head here by her post...well done by the way! And the period could have been the 80s not the ancient 50s okay. Even the 90s possibly but since the 2000`s came along it seems things have changed for some and others do follow the protocals of old.

Frank, first of all if the 80's and 90's are old then we're working from a different understanding of what constitutes "old". Second, by what measure did lily make that assessment? Was she active in organized BDSM in the 80's to know what was happening then? Is she active in organized BDSM now to know what is happening out there beyond rural Maine? Is she referring to the way things used to be in rural Maine, or the way things used to be across the country?

I've been around for a fair while myself, and across a fair bit of geography. And frankly (no pun intended), I just don't see it. Maybe some folks are just now seeing variations that always existed, but that they had not been exposed to previously. But I gotta tell ya, there's nothing out there now that hasn't been there for quite a while.

My question still remains... let's have some context as to when and where she was talking about. Without context, there's no way to know if those statements are valid or not.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/26/2008 1:37:26 PM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to sailorfrank)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 4:01:33 PM

Posts: 13
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline

Thanks, robertolapiedra:

That puts a perspective on it. The slave who writes her profile says "if you have to ask...don't bother responding" Of course I have no intention of responding. I wonder who would.

_____________________________

The answer is always "all of the above"

(in reply to colouredin)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 4:09:09 PM

Posts: 13
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline

Barelily,

Your thoughtful answer gives me much food for thought...Thank you.

_____________________________

The answer is always "all of the above"

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 4:20:28 PM

Posts: 13
Joined: 10/19/2008
Status: offline

Thank you all for the enlightened dialogue. It has taught me much.

I sent a message to the slave who posted the statement so that she could see the the responses.

Maybe she'll take me up on my invitation to clarify her statememt here, since she asked that no one relpy to her if they did not understand what she meant by "willing to train me in the old ways".

_____________________________

The answer is always "all of the above"

(in reply to RocketDoc)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 5:13:04 PM

Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline

Sailorfrank, I'm 46 so no it wasn't the 50's

and thank you for the nice reply.
RocketDoc good luck finding what you need hun.

Rover, I'm a tad disappointed with you. But I have learned that the term selective hearing also applies to reading

I did not give specifics because it was not called for. My answer was made in the same manner the question was given. Keep in mind not everyone feels the need to post the details of their history.
I also made a clear distinction between BDSM and the D/s lifestyle, so for you to ask if I was active in organized BDSM is contrary to what I said.
I've also seen a fair bit of geography so lets not pick on Maine shall we, it's a bit trite.
By what measure did I make that assessment? Thats fairly obvious to everyone except you I guess, the assessment was based on my life and what I've experienced. Pretty simple.
Anything else I can answer for you,dear, please do speak up.

< Message edited by Barelily -- 10/26/2008 5:21:47 PM >

(in reply to RocketDoc)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 5:45:40 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barelily

Rover, I'm a tad disappointed with you. But I have learned that the term selective hearing also applies to reading

If you'd care to point out what I selectively read, I'm willing to be enlightened.

quote:

I did not give specifics because it was not called for. My answer was made in the same manner the question was given. Keep in mind not everyone feels the need to post the details of their history.

Actually, I asked a pretty straightforward question and gave you the benefit of the doubt by not jumping to any conclusions until you had an opportunity to provide context. When someone asks me about Leather history, or my own history, I'm able to provide simple answers. You're under no obligation to do the same, of course. But folks are likely to draw conclusions about that. It's human nature.

In the future, if you don't like those questions being asked, you might want to reconsider alluding to Leather history, or your history, in a public venue like these forums. Public postings invite public discussion.

quote:

I also made a clear distinction between BDSM and the D/s lifestyle, so for you to ask if I was active in organized BDSM is contrary to what I said.

Considering the term BDSM includes D/S, drawing a distinction between the two is rather unlikely. Perhaps you meant to draw a distinction between D/S and B/D and S/M (ie: each of the three constituent parts of BDSM).

quote:

I've also seen a fair bit of geography so lets not pick on Maine shall we, it's a bit trite.

You can consider it whatever you like. Personally, when I see someone making professions for all of BDSM (or Leather, if you prefer) I tend to want to put that into context. I find it helpful to understand whether that conclusion is drawn from the internet or personal experience, from a single community or a region or even nationally, from the confines of a personal relationship or from within organized BDSM. Each of those factors (and more) help me to understand what you're basing your opinion on, and how I might choose to respond.

The alternative is to make conclusions based on facts that are not in evidence. Not that I have never done that, but I do my best to avoid it.

quote:

By what measure did I make that assessment? Thats fairly obvious to everyone except you I guess, the assessment was based on my life and what I've experienced. Pretty simple.

And that is what I am trying to ascertain. Pretty simple... I thought. As you have clearly stated yourself, your experiences are relevant context. One might question your motivation for asking me (us) to accept them without actually sharing them.

quote:

Anything else I can answer for you,dear, please do speak up.

I'll save any further questions until you answer the earlier questions. I like to think that I've been exceedingly gracious and patient thus far. Though it is tempting, I have come to no conclusions about your statements and given you every opportunity to provide the needed context. But your continued evasiveness will provide plenty of context from which conclusions can be drawn.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/26/2008 5:46:16 PM >

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 6:14:34 PM

Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline

Again you put words into my mouth that I never mentioned nor alluded to. Thus the selective reading.
I'd suggest you go back and read my original post again alittle more carefully, paying particular attention to the fact that I was referring to another time frame and included keys words such as, "not all" in order to avoid people assuming that I was making professions.
But this is what it all boils down to,
My post was not directed at you (us) it was a direct responce to the poster, so frankly I don't care what you chose to believe or find merit in.
If the original poster had asked further questions of me I would have been more then glad to answer.
If you made a post I replied to and asked further questions I would be more then glad to answer, but the facts remains that the original post was not yours.
My post, was referring to generalities and does not need to be backed up with citeable references. How borish of me that would be.
No you have not been gracious, you've almost demanded answers to things that are quite frankly none of your buisness. A gracious person would respect someones right not to broadcast their life in a post.
Now it seems this thread has died since RocketDoc's thank you, so I see no reason to continue having my words and thoughts presumed upon.
Thank you and have a nice day.

< Message edited by Barelily -- 10/26/2008 6:21:31 PM >

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 6:22:53 PM

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

Oooo....somebodies talking out of their ass....

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 6:35:55 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barelily

Again you put words into my mouth that I never mentioned nor eluded to. Thus the selective reading.

If I were putting words in your mouth, I would not be giving you the opportunity to explain yourself before jumping to a conclusion. Simply put, that's poppycock.

quote:

I'd suggest you go back and read my original post again alittle more carefully, paying particular attention to the fact that I was referring to another time frame and included keys words such as, "not all" in order to avoid people assuming that I was making professions.

And having carefully read your post, I am simply asking what time frame you were referring to. Or is it an imaginary time frame? It's really not a difficult question, though you seem to have such difficulty answering it.

quote:

But this is what it all boils down to,
My post was not directed at you (us) it was a direct responce to the poster, so frankly I don't care what you chose to believe or find merit in.
If the original poster had asked further questions of me I would have been more then glad to answer.

So let me get this straight... if the OP had asked you my question you would have answered it, but since I asked it you will not? I ask this with all sincerity... how many fourms have you been a member of? Because that's just not the way things work.

quote:

If you made a post I replied to and asked further questions I would be more then glad to answer, but the facts remains that the original post was not yours.

What possible relevance does this have? Do you understand how forums and threads work? Do you understand the give and take, question and debate, amongst all members who choose to participate?

quote:

My post, was referring to generalities and does not need to be backed up with citeable references. How borish of me that would be.

Generalities about what? About a factual reality that took place some time ago? Or about a fantasy that never took place? Can you understand the difference, and appreciate how someone like myself would want to know that before you publicly embarrass yourself (ooops... too late for that).

quote:

No you have not been gracious, you've almost demanded answers to things that are quite frankly none of your buisness. A gracious person would respect someones right not to broadcast their life in a post.

If it's none of my business, then why would you make a public spectacle of it in this thread? Don't whine that you're being put on the spot after making a public statement like that. This is a forum for discussion, not a billboard where you can say anything you like without comment or reply. You made it my business by implying that such nonesense was the norm at some point in Leather history. Cough... bullcrap... cough.

quote:

Now it seems this thread has died since RocketDoc thank you's, so I see no reason to continue having my words and thoughts presumed upon.
Thank you and have a nice day.

Until now I have resisted the temptation to presume about you. I've given you multiple opportunities to explain yourself without conjecture on my part. I feel no need to do so any further.

I believe you're relatively new to the boards here. A friendly word of advice is that you'll find it difficult to portray fantasy as factual around here without someone (like me) calling you on it.

Spade.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Barelily)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 6:46:48 PM

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Here's what we have to look forward to... in fifty years Leather folks will look back on today as the "good old days" and will have ascribed to us "the old ways" as if there was some sort of universal BDSM of the era. And of course, it will have been better, more respectful and honorable, and stricter than anything in practice at the time.

John

If your around in 50 I'll ask you about the good ole

days.

Edit: Maybe she was referring to "old fashioned ways" compared to the new age I wanna get in touch with cosmic space and time Dom's. Just a guess

< Message edited by Icarys -- 10/26/2008 6:51:23 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Rover)

RE: "Old Ways" - 10/26/2008 6:59:08 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

If your around in 50 I'll ask you about the good ole days.

I sincerely hope we're both around to tell swashbuckling stories of our Leather youth. :) (Heck, we should do that now!!)

quote:

Edit: Maybe she was referring to "old fashioned ways" compared to the new age I wanna get in touch with cosmic space and time Dom's. Just a guess

One can only guess, since she's not answering any questions that did not come from the OP.

John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Icarys)

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: "Old Ways"

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.571