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RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 5:11:08 PM

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Joined: 10/29/2007
From: Baltimore, MD
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Um, wow. I think that a lot of people are making this much more complicated than it is. Let me break it down as best I can:

1.) Whether the cartoon is racist or not, The Post should have known better. If you know even rudimentary history, you should have seen the fallout coming. I agree that the cartoon wasn't necessarily made with racist intentions, but to say that the outrage is unfounded is ridiculous.

2.) This is clear liberal bias because nobody objected when George Bush was portrayed as a chimp? Really? Really? It AMAZES me how obtuse people are being on here. How about this:

Imagine if one of the most widely read newspapers in the world was the Nation of Islam's newspaper, The Final Call. They do a political cartoon where they depict George Bush as a giant cracker. When confronted about it they say "Oh, it was to suggest the frail leadership of the bush administration, there were no racial overtones." Would you believe them? And if so, could you see how it might be interpreted as racist?

There are liberal crazies who would take this opportunity to yell about the left to anyone who would hear. But you have to admit that the Post gave them a HELL of a lot to work with.

And for those who play the "Double Standard" card (Don't you just love how I can instantly trivialize anything you say by accusing you of playing the (insert word here) card?), keep in mind how people were outraged over the New Yorker's magazine cover.

< Message edited by VioletGray -- 2/20/2009 5:12:14 PM >

(in reply to hardbodysub)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 5:17:13 PM

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
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remember all republicans presidents are stupid. Its a line of attack democrats use all the time against republicans. If you repeat that lie enough times and have the media parrot it people will believe it. The media used it against Bush W, Bush Sr, Ronald Reagan, Gerald ford. ect

Just like some people believe Obama is a genius. Repeat in all the major news venues how smart Obama is enough times and some people will believe it.
Oh an interesting side note. In an interview Chevy Chase admitted he portrayed Ford as a dumb bumbling idiot on SNL not for comedic purposes but in order for people not to vote for Ford.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

It is an attempt to slander a group of people in a manner that has greater depth and is much more insidious than any comparison that has been directed at Bush....

Just as a counterpoint, Bush was portrayed as a stupid chimp all the time, albeit not as a stereotype, but more because he was individually perceived as stupid.

(in reply to cloudboy)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 5:22:47 PM

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http://moderntribalist.blogspot.com/2006/08/palestinian-cartoon-shows-condoleezza.html

The image, as well as words such as "raven" and "black spinster" to describe Miss Rice, appeared in Palestinian newspapers controlled by President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party.

"This is truly ugly," said a former senior aide to Madeleine K. Albright, secretary of state in the Clinton administration. "It's unfortunate and not reflective of the Palestinian people, and they should be upset about it. But you have to ignore these things, you can't respond to them."

quote:

ORIGINAL: VioletGray

Um, wow. I think that a lot of people are making this much more complicated than it is. Let me break it down as best I can:

1.) Whether the cartoon is racist or not, The Post should have known better. If you know even rudimentary history, you should have seen the fallout coming. I agree that the cartoon wasn't necessarily made with racist intentions, but to say that the outrage is unfounded is ridiculous.

2.) This is clear liberal bias because nobody objected when George Bush was portrayed as a chimp? Really? Really? It AMAZES me how obtuse people are being on here. How about this:

Imagine if one of the most widely read newspapers in the world was the Nation of Islam's newspaper, The Final Call. They do a political cartoon where they depict George Bush as a giant cracker. When confronted about it they say "Oh, it was to suggest the frail leadership of the bush administration, there were no racial overtones." Would you believe them? And if so, could you see how it might be interpreted as racist?

There are liberal crazies who would take this opportunity to yell about the left to anyone who would hear. But you have to admit that the Post gave them a HELL of a lot to work with.

And for those who play the "Double Standard" card (Don't you just love how I can instantly trivialize anything you say by accusing you of playing the (insert word here) card?), keep in mind how people were outraged over the New Yorker's magazine cover.

(in reply to VioletGray)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 5:32:55 PM

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MS,

You are using a Palestinian political cartoon as an example. Do you have examples in the U.S. press?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MasterShake69)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 5:55:44 PM

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i believe i did already but here it is again.

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2004/11/20/racist-cartoons-of-condoleezza-rice/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/gog/misc-events/leadership-oliphant-cartoons-and-sculpture-from-the-bush-years,1143249.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

MS,

All of these examples of political cartoons that you cite here would be inappropriate and offensive IMO. If you have the links that would be helpful in the analysis.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
I don't recall much discussion of the cartoons by noted artists like Doonesbury, Oliphant and Danziger depicting Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice with slavery connotations. I've never seen much outrage at the cartoons labeling Clarence Thomas as an Uncle Tom, either.

There was no big fuss about Garry Trudeau's "Doonesbury" cartoon of Mr. Bush referring to Ms. Rice as "brown sugar," or Ted Rall's cartoon having Ms. Rice proclaim herself Mr. Bush's "House nigga." Noted political cartoonist Pat Oliphant showed Ms. Rice as a parrot with big lips and Jeff Danziger had her muttering like Butterfly McQueen's character Prissy in "Gone With the Wind." Nor has there been any concerted effort to condemn Don Wright's cartoon showing Justice Thomas as Justice Scalia's lawn jockey.

(in reply to Vendaval)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:06:11 PM

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OK, the first link goes to commentary about 3 cartoons all of which are in very bad taste and play on Black racial stereotypes. The second link had a cartoon that was too small to read properly and even with the view increased I could not make it out.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MasterShake69)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:13:39 PM

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ill see if ican find a better pic for you

some more background

http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=pages.democrats

DEMOCRATS DEFEND BIGOTRY The moment that Dr. Condoleezza Rice was nominated to be the first black woman secretary of state, liberal Democrats, emboldened by the silence or complicity of most black Democrat civil rights advocates, showed their racist underbelly. Democratic Party leaders in Congress and liberal cartoonists engaged in the kind of racism that liberals say they abhor. Liberal cartoonist Gary Trudeau, Pat Oliphant, Jeff Danziger, and Ted Rall, as well as radio talk show host John Sylvester attacked Dr. Rice because she is a Republican, using the same kind of vile, racist slurs that the Democrats used against blacks during the era of slavery and segregation. Pat Oliphant drew Rice in two cartoons as a big-lipped, bucktooth quaking parrot, slurring her as a hollow-headed stooge. Jeff Danziger depicted Rice as a stereotyped “mammy,” barefoot and ignorant. Gary Trudeau’s demeaning cartoon showed President Bush tagging Rice with the label of “Brown Sugar.“ Ted Rall penned a cartoon depicting Rice boasting about her role as “Bush’s Beard.” Another Rall character demanded that Rice “hand over your hair straightener.” Rall added that Rice is being sent to an “inner-city racial education camp.” Even before Rice’s nomination was announced, Ted Rall referred to Rice as the president’s “House [N-word].” John Sylvester, a white liberal Democrat in Madison, Wisconsin, characterized Rice on his radio talk show as a servile black, calling her an “Aunt Jemima.” When Rice appeared before the Senate for her confirmation hearing, Democrat Senator Robert Byrd, the former “Keagle” in the Ku Klux Klan who waged a 14-hour filibuster against the 1964 Civil Rights Act, led other liberal Democrats, including Senators John Kerry and Barbara Boxer, in a filibuster against Rice’s confirmation. In 1964, it took the leadership of Republican Minority Leader Everett Dirksen to break the filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Bill led by Byrd, and more Republicans than Democrats voted for the bill. Recently, Senator Dodd praised Senator Byrd as someone who would have been “a great senator for any moment,” including the Civil War. Democrats who denounced Senator Trent Lott for his remarks about Senator Strom Thurmond have remained silent about Senator Dodd’s racist remarks. Mr. Thurmond was never a member of the Klan and he defended blacks against the poll tax and lynching. If Mr. Byrd and Mr. Thurmond were alive during the Civil War and Byrd had his way, Thurmond would have been lynched. Among those who supported Dr. Rice's nomination to be secretary of state and were outraged by the Democrat's attacks are Andrew Young, the former Atlanta mayor, U.S. Congressman and United Nations ambassador in the Carter Administration, as well as C. Delores Tucker, chair of the National Congress of Black Women. Dr. Dorothy Height, Chair and President emerita of the National Council of Negro Women, wrote in a letter to the New York Post: Despite the challenges she will face, Dr. Rice’ appointment is a time for women of color to smile.” But Ex-Ku Klux Klansman Byrd and other liberal Democrats who don’t want black women to smile. The New York Post blasted Byrd for blocking Rice’s confirmation, openly questioning whether Byrd was motivated by racism. Given Byrd’s history, the answer is a definite yes. Although Byrd officially left the Klan in 1943, he continued to advise the terrorist group for years afterward. In the early 1970's Byrd pushed to have the Senate’s main office building named after Democrat Senator Richard Russell, Byrd’s mentor and leading opponent of anti-lynching legislation. In 2001, Byrd was forced to apologize for using the N-word on TV. Three years after Byrd said he’d left his white sheeted brethren behind, he wrote to Georgia’s Grand Imperial Wizard, saying: “The Klan is needed today as never before.” Byrd was also a fierce opponent of desegregating the military, complaining in one letter: “I should rather die a thousand times and see old glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again than see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen of the wilds.”

(in reply to Vendaval)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:26:39 PM

MasterHypnotist

Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

I am typing very slowly

This is getting boring. I didn't miss the point, you did. The Republican-promoted tax cuts stimulate the economy minimally because of where they are targeted. The money lost could, and should, be put to better use elsewhere, where it stimulates the economy more.

You want boring... let's just use numbers. That should just put this whole thing to rest. (The Appropriation Committee's SUMMARY is 13 pages!)

* $787,000,000,000 for a "STIMULUS" package that is simply the second in line of an unknown number of "stimulus" packages.

* Just .0312 of that amount will be spent in ANY fashion, 2009. (FOX News, 2/5/09, still using the $865B numbers)Remember, this was imperative to move quickly to stimulate the economy! What do we get for our expediency? .0312 this year. Question... Why not just pass a stimulus bill that will be spent THIS year and next year.

* 2010? Much better. .16 of the amount will be spent. (FOX News) Wheeeeeeeeeeee! Less than 1 of every 5 dollars alloted are going to be spent in the next two years. Why not just write and pass, that bill and see how things are going in 14 months?. Round it up, call it $169,000,000,000. While still a huge number, do you think that would make the bill easier to read and parse out?

* The U.S. infrastructure will finally get the uplift it needs. Yeah, right... over the course of the bill, (years and years) a whopping .036 of the money goes to roads and bridges. (FOX News)

* Clean energy... oh, baby! Light that fuse! .02 of the package goes to clean energy... and of that .02, only .14 gets spent in the next two years. (FOX News)

* However, 150 FEDERAL PROGRAMS get cars and computers! Yes, I'm sure it's a necessary thing... it's just not a well definded STIMULUS thing.

* While Federal programs get new computers and cars, the average American will get an additional $8 per week in their paycheck from reduced or deferred income taxes over the next two years. (USA Today, 2/17/09) Would you like fries with that?

* Pell Grants increased by $500. Good news, but is it immediate economic stimulus? (MSNBC, 2/17/09)

* Tax rebates if you are a first time new homes buyer, or deduct the tax from your taxable income if you purchase an auto. (USA Today, 2/17/09) Small boost to the economy, experts say. But how that helps the jobless, I'm not sure. Is anyone who was NOT going to buy a house or car, buy one now because of these rebates?

* Weatherize your home AND remember to keep your receipts for your taxes, you can deduct it! (USA Today) Again, a good thing... but does it create jobs and stimulate the economy... and do we really need the incentive to do it in the first place?

* Increasing unemployment benefits by $25 per week, extending unemployment coverage, foodstamp alotments, and a subsidy for COBRA payments. (USA Today) All good and necessary things that certainly appeal to the Democrat base. Frankly COBRA needs work.
I would like to point out that the unemployed get an extra $25 per week income and enhanced benefits for being out of work for an extended time. When they get a job, they get reduced to an additional $8 per week in tax relief. I'm not begrudging the benefits... I'm simply looking for the logical rational.

* A $7500 tax credit to by plug-in hybreds! Now, this is good... except, and I just have to quote,
"Providing a tax credit of up to $7,500 for families that buy plug-in hybrids to spur a new generation of cars 'will help the environment and help Detroit,' Kurtzman says.
"But automakers won't have plug-in hybrids and battery-power electrics in showrooms until next year at the earliest.
"'To roll that into a stimulus is almost misleading,' Medlock says." (USA TODAY)

Yeah, well, not only is it misleading... apparently it is also boring, eh hardbodysub? This could have all been done much more simply, honestly, and with less beurocracy, and certainly with more than a .19 efficiency in the next two years! No, I don't think I missed the point at all. I think I simply went behind the rhetoric, that's all.

MH

(in reply to hardbodysub)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:27:13 PM

Posts: 631
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It is difficult for me to believe any
who claim to have perceived any OTHER meaning
as to who the dead chimp in that cartoon was intended to represent.

Congress? Congress is PLURAL. Dead chimp in cartoon: decidedly singular.

This can not POSSIBLY have escaped whomever at The Post passed on it's publication.

Great Publicity (there is no 'BAD' publicity to media whores, right?)

That cartoon was both tasteless and un-funny, also pointless, on all counts.

Then again, The Post is mere Yello Journalism... kinda Enquire-ish (but not as interesting).

Now, I personally am no 'O' supporter, in any way shape nor form... he truly frightens me.
However, that has nothing whatsoever to do with his racial make-up.

_____________________________

Black Water Dragon

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:45:30 PM

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MS, nobody here is saying that bigotry or racism is particular to any one political party.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to MasterShake69)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 6:59:55 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Right. Those Condoleeza cartoons were SO warm and fuzzy. Liberal hypocrites can all go to hell.

Can you link us to any Condoleeza Rice cartoons that you think were racist in nature, rather than simply insulting?

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to MichiganHeadmast)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 7:06:22 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
It is a rather ridiculous notion to say that it could not be interpreted to be directed at Obama....I have seen way too many posters come out here and refer to the stimulus package as being "his."

So it can easily be interpretated that Obama is the "one black man" responsible for the stimulus bill. If you do not have the capability to reach this as a possible conclusion then I don't know what else to say.

Possible conclusion? Mmmm.... I suppose. I guess if you stretch hard enough, you could figure out a way to decide that this is a possible conclusion.

But then again, a logical conclusion? To paraphrase you, if you seriously think this is the most logical conclusion, then I don't know what else to say to you.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 7:15:23 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

Well,
Since we daren't blame B.O. ....... ;)

hell no, you see what they did to the guy with the abort obama sign?
SS went to his house and tossed it.
I guess the first ammendment is dead now!

I don't know what sign you're talking about, but perceived threats to the president have never been covered by the first amendment, and don't pretend you didn't know that. You're just being ridiculously partisan again.

Speaking of the Secret Service, let's take a look at this from another perspective. People here are maintaining that the cartoon clearly intended to portray Obama as a chimpanzee. If you follow that line of reasoning, the cartoonist has intentionally drawn a cartoon depicting the president of the United States as having been shot dead. If this is as clearcut and unambiguous as some of you insist it is, how do you explain the fact that the Secret Service has apparently shown no interest in this matter whatsoever?

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to hardbodysub)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 8:35:23 PM

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Joined: 8/7/2005
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Volume doesn't equate to quality. I'm not even going to read any more of the stuff you repeat from Fox news. It's amazing that you spend so much time dredging it up and writing it. Like I said, this gets more boring all the time, you're not changing your tune no matter what, and you're not convincing anyone who disagrees with you.

(in reply to MasterHypnotist)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 8:46:28 PM

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Joined: 11/30/2005
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ive run into alot of dead links.

heres something else i found not in the league as the others

http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/5d4132bb-53e6-4913-825d-227d0a89de56.html
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/eb7ae5be-0159-4f71-b274-722abf156560.html
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/b41995f4-cbde-4f1d-9123-c3069a7f7768.html
http://www.politicalcartoons.com/cartoon/5167842f-02ae-410e-bc5c-8ca273f03e0d.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Right. Those Condoleeza cartoons were SO warm and fuzzy. Liberal hypocrites can all go to hell.

Can you link us to any Condoleeza Rice cartoons that you think were racist in nature, rather than simply insulting?

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 8:51:14 PM

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Joined: 11/30/2005
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please let me know the time and day my opinion was repeated on foxnews. It should be easy for you to answer it since you must have been watching foxnews and saw some sort of connection.

I usually just use GOOGLE then clip and paste what i find.

Maybe foxnews also uses google????? Or maybe they are reading the collarme message boards????

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

Volume doesn't equate to quality. I'm not even going to read any more of the stuff you repeat from Fox news. It's amazing that you spend so much time dredging it up and writing it. Like I said, this gets more boring all the time, you're not changing your tune no matter what, and you're not convincing anyone who disagrees with you.

(in reply to hardbodysub)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 8:55:22 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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Joined: 1/26/2009
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I'm not seeing anything the least bit racist in any of those.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to MasterShake69)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 8:59:26 PM

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Joined: 8/7/2005
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Hello? New here? My post wasn't in response to you. If you check the lower right corner of the post, you'll see the little "(in response to ...)".

(in reply to MasterShake69)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 9:01:45 PM

MasterHypnotist

Posts: 120
Joined: 6/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

Volume doesn't equate to quality. I'm not even going to read any more of the stuff you repeat from Fox news. It's amazing that you spend so much time dredging it up and writing it. Like I said, this gets more boring all the time, you're not changing your tune no matter what, and you're not convincing anyone who disagrees with you.

Oh, for the love of Pete. You think I'm posting to try to convince you? Hell no, son... this is twit slappin! I love twit slappin!

The factual sources included FOX, USA Today, MSNBC, Wall Street Journal and the Congressional Budget Office. The numbers are the numbers. Pull them from Huffington, NPR, or The Nation. All I did was websearch for articles that actually had numbers in them, that's all.

I just lead with FOX to make sure your mind stayed closed.

Argumentation based on documented facts simply allows opinions to have merit for consideration. So, when you're ready to show some quality instead of partisan bravado, please post.

I'm lookin forward to it,

MH

(in reply to hardbodysub)

RE: New York Post Cartoon: Is Obama the chimp... - 2/20/2009 9:06:23 PM

Posts: 359
Joined: 10/29/2007
From: Baltimore, MD
Status: offline

MasterShake69, I'm not sure how any of what you are saying applies to the point that I'm making.

Should liberals be held accountable just as often as conservatives for racist behavior? Absolutely. Is there a double standard? Perhaps. But what does any of this have to do with the topic? I fail to see how this relates to the chimp cartoon. You seem to view this as liberal vs. conservative. In reality it's bigots vs. civilized society, or at least thoughtful vs. thick-headed.

(in reply to MasterShake69)

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