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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 5:17:48 PM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

I could have sworn luscious that you said a few post back.  That when steel stepped in to defend someone"he handled it improperly" and when morgan does it she a "hero",  WhatTheFuckOver?

I have at times stepped in to help a stranger in danger however morgan did something I wouldn't have, put my baby directly in harms way.

BadOne



The reason I said that was he said he would know longer stick his neck out. Sorry I confused you. My bad.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 4/7/2009 5:18:16 PM >


_____________________________

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Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 5:23:39 PM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am not saying say NOTHING, I am Saying say the right things. Talking to other people behind someones back is not the right thing. Having a meeting of people and commiting what could very well be slander is not the right thing. Trying to talk someone into being more like what you consider acceptable is not the right thing.

When he hits a Kidney, Say "Hey Buddy, you could do some serious damage hitting her there"
When he leaves a girl crying in the Bathroom, say "Hey Pal, you got a girl in tears in the bathroom you wanna do something about that?
When you witness a girl who says she was raped, say "Hey girl, you need to go get some help, I'll drive you if you want.
When someone comes to a play party uninvited, say "Hey guy you know it's not okay to just show up you really need to be invited I think you should ask the Host if it's okay if you are here."
When someone is abuseing someone else, say "Hey I want to know if you are okay with how Xhe treats you, if not and you want some help I am willing but you gotta want it."

ALL of these are better than going to a group of people and saying "This Guy Equals Bad" especially if you don't have all the facts and had them checked twice by two seperate sources.

I don't know if LadyH has taken this personally, that is not what ANY of what I said was, I was simply stating what I didn't think was appropriate. As far as how I can help a Problem dom, Well if they are willing to listen and be taken under a wing I offer. If not then.... and I mean this literally... It isn't my problem.

Steel


I would say that this is the kind of thing I want in a club and someone who will let me know that so and so doesnt seem to honor safewords or steps over the line or  this person has a way of doing things that doesnt jive with your style. That would be appropriate way to look out for others. Nipping things in the bud before the dom gets out oof control and to the point that he has a reputation and gossip going about him.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 5:27:25 PM   
CalifChick


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Hey Hib?  I missed it somewhere... can you point it out to me where you said you were going to go to a group of people and say "This Guy Equals Bad"?  Funny, I thought I saw you asking how to open his eyes AND you were going to try to be speaking at a sub women's munch to help women learn how to pick men.


Cali



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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 7:03:55 PM   
DarkFury


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Yet the point is when several people have pretty much the same concerns about another person...isn't that worthwhile taking a look into? I didn't advocate sticking one's head out on assumptions and second hand news, simply taking a a concerned notice to "potential" problems. Seems to me it's better to nip a potential problem in the bud than to risk it becoming a fill blown issue.

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 7:07:04 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Cali!  Can you show me that part, too, because I missed it!  Maybe because I am a meddling old biddy and am too busy interfering with other stuff.

Oh, and Steel?  No, I don't take all the bile that has been spewed at me in this thread personally.  I do not take it at all personally that men have twisted my words, made me out to be a busybody, a blacklister, a libeler, and all that other goodness.  I consider the sources.

Just an update, bye the bye...  the person in question has been banned from two local events.  Another one is being shown the door as well. 

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/7/2009 10:01:21 PM   
SailingBum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am not going to be posting anymore on this thread, it seems to me that my words are being twisted very elegantly.    I am wondering where I mentioned "protecting the community", right now... 

Merc, you are a genius of spin.  Congratulations!


Letsee I start a thread.  Some ppl don't agree.  I attempt to explain my untenable position.  More ppl disagree.  Refuse to answer direct questions.  Accuse ppl of "spin and twist". Declare I am not saying another word.  Then post a parting shot which no one gives a shit about. 

One would think the thread starter would be mature enuff to correct the "Evil spin" and explain and defend their positoin.  Instead of running away....   And of course blame the boys... somehow forgetting some of the girls are evil doers <didnt agree>as well.

BadOne


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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 12:30:40 AM   
MissMorrigan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum
I could have sworn luscious that you said a few post back.  That when steel stepped in to defend someone"he handled it improperly" and when morgan does it she a "hero",  WhatTheFuckOver?

I have at times stepped in to help a stranger in danger however morgan did something I wouldn't have, put my baby directly in harms way.

BadOne

And neither did I that day, kindly do not materialise something that was not stated by me. Anyone that is familiar with Woolwich Bus Quadrant (clearly you aren't, but kindly afford someone that has a child and does take action the common sense to have given priority to their child's safety first and foremost) will know there used to be a Bus Inspector's portaoffice, and likely still is. My son was placed firstly with the Bus Inspector (which I already stated) and no where near immediate danger. The Inspector is a figure of authority and was given instructions by me to call the emergency services and told exactly where I would be. Had the assault not continued I would have returned to my son forthwith. When I was helped back to the portacabin after the assault, it was to see my son sitting happily munching a finger of kitkat.  My son is now twenty five years of age, he works in his own time with inner city kids in deprived areas teaching them coaching skills, has overcome adversity insofar as having two learning disabilities and despite that acquired a degree in sports science. He is a person that people naturally respect even though he is quietly spoken and yet people listen to him. He's intervened in many a situation between in-gang youth fighting, of course I worry, immensely but one of the things I did teach him is that we as a society enable and encourage antisocial behaviour by simply not doing anything. Thank you for your concern regarding my mothering skills.
-------------------
Coming back to the original topic and my apologies for hijacking the thread, that was not my intention.

Bear, I understand Lady Hibs' good intentions in wanting to speak to the man concerned, those were never in doubt, sometimes we are torn when we see a person behaving repeatedly in a less than favourable way. My comments still stand though, take action when it occurs immediately and give the person no leeway that it is their first and only warning or they find themselves excluded from future events/parties unless they show willing to work with someone to establish a greater knowledge/ability in techniques.

By all means use one's respected reputation within the community to help with the education of newbies regardless of their orientation - knowledge is empowerment - I would have loved having an experienced dominant or submissive take me under their wing when I started out at sixteen years of age, I didn't, I learned through many trials and even more errors. These days, with the inclusion of the internet, there is such a rich repository of information out 'there' and ultimately, we are responsible for our own safety. If we attend a club wherein the person we interact behaves poorly, have the management of the place sort it out and educate the person in protocol, if it's a private party then it's the responsibility of the host to ensure no further occurrences are repeated and how they wish to handle that is up to them, if on a one-to-one basis we have no one but ourselves to rely upon.

There are jerks out there of either gender and regardless of orientation, and there have been many constructive suggestions offered with regard to how to deal with such people. Just know that if I felt someone had behaved adversely to me and in my outpouring to a friend I elaborated due to high emotion, my friend would naturally believe me and not question my version of events - the result for the offender would not be pretty for I know that despite good intention, something told to a friend rarely remains with them and yet another person is involved, and so forth is set a snowballing situation. Rarely do people react without personal bias.


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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 3:10:43 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am not going to be posting anymore on this thread, it seems to me that my words are being twisted very elegantly.    I am wondering where I mentioned "protecting the community", right now... 

Merc, you are a genius of spin.  Congratulations!


Letsee I start a thread.  Some ppl don't agree.  I attempt to explain my untenable position.  More ppl disagree.  Refuse to answer direct questions.  Accuse ppl of "spin and twist". Declare I am not saying another word.  Then post a parting shot which no one gives a shit about. 

One would think the thread starter would be mature enuff to correct the "Evil spin" and explain and defend their positoin.  Instead of running away....   And of course blame the boys... somehow forgetting some of the girls are evil doers <didnt agree>as well.

BadOne



Well, since she was jumped on over things she did NOT say because some person had a knee jerk reaction most  likely cause of thier issues in which many fed off of...

Since when did you become a spoke person for "no one"? I certainly am glad she came back and I do give a shit. Perhaps it  is you would should take a laxative?



_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 3:20:06 AM   
colouredin


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FR

There used to be a preditory dom in my circle. He approached me as a newbie and other people I know, he was a nasty piece of crap really seriously if I fazed easier I would probably have run away from all things scene related. I told a few girls about it and they had similar experiences, this guy was confronted in a very dramatic way the problem is the fall out wacked me round the face too, I became rather ostracised from it all because some people chose to believe this dom. Personally from now on I stay out of the politics, there will always be someone to stick up for the assholes and I dont want to gt in crap cos someone else is a dick. Call me weak but I just cant be arsed people can learn for themselves, no one likes a hero

_____________________________

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 3:36:36 AM   
mistoferin


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Oh Lady H, I am sorry that this thread has turned out the way that it has. It is impossible for people to understand or offer advice on this without the benefit of knowing both you and the extent of the situation being discussed. I am well aware of the “who” in this case…his reputation enters the room an hour before he does. I’ve even had my own little “Come to Jesus” conversation with him once. It may make you feel better to know that you are far from the first person frustrated by it and I know that several people, with intentions of helping him along this path, have tried to point out to him the error of his ways. But the fact remains that you can lead a horse to water and all… Also, I have no issue telling someone to watch their step when they are walking through a field of cowpies. Sometimes, even cowpies can be pretty unassuming…even charming. I can tell you that there are several places at this point where he is no longer welcomed or allowed.
As an aside….Lady H is a very well known (more widely known by her real name) lifestyle figure in Michigan. She is a poised and beautiful lady of integrity who does NOT have a reputation of poking her nose in places where it’s unwarranted. That fact to me only stands as testament to the frustrating nature of the situation being discussed. Having personally witnessed the two interact I can come to no other conclusion than that her motivations in asking for advice here were to be helpful.

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~erin~

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 4:01:42 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Mist, Lady H's integrity has never been in question nor her intention in wanting to help, I've long read her posts on the boards and believe I have a good sense of the kind of lady she is. The man's reputation, as you confirmed, is pretty widespread in the community, one can only assume, although you have now affirmed that you are one person who has already spoken with him, that others have spoken to him in an attempt to have him see where his behaviour is letting him down, is potentially harming other people, that he's gaining a poor reputation and which will ultimately lead to his exclusion from events. It has fallen on deaf ears and one can only presume that his continuance in this vein indicates he has no intention of changing b/c even if he is barred from events, the internet will proivde him with the means to continue meeting unsuspecting naive submissives - it would seem he enjoys being one of those cowpies.

I am not one for stating a person should remain silent, I do believe in action at the time of the offence or as soon as possible thereafter, and Lady H has come back to notify us all that action has been taken, and that the man in question  has now found himself banned from attending certain events in the future - this, I can see, is a positive step and one I applaud. I hope it was fully explained as to why he was banned, and should it not be a lifetime ban, what steps he can take to rectify this situaition.

The great thing about these boards is that despite not personally knowing the authors of posts or the full circumstances that led up to them, we can discuss, debate and hopefully formulate possible solutions with the help of others' input. I know that I have encountered opposing viewpoints to posts I have made over the years and despite not agreeing with some of them, they have always given me something to take away from here. 

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 5:44:22 AM   
MasterRaid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Okay, guys, here's my story.  We have a Problem Child in my town.  He's been around forever.  He preys on the new young girls because the ones who know him avoid him.  His reputation is so bad that he is actually hurting business for certain events, because folks won't attend if he is there! 

Naturally, this is all an "underground" reputation, because in the scene, if it's not prosecutable, it's just a bad date, right?  He says all the right things in public, after all!  Evidently, he is unteachable, or so I am told.  As a female dominant, he has never ever done anything inappropriate to me, except demonstrate his utter lack of social skills.  To other women, it's been everything from date rape, to telling one that he gave her herpes, to just playing so ineptly that we found his date sobbing in the ladies room. 

What would you do?  Anything?  How would you approach this person and show him that he is not being one of the good guys?   I know that you can't make an asshole change his stripes (or whatever) but what do you think?  I am not a blacklister, and I am in no way suggesting that we do anything like that.  I'd just like to see this guy's eyes opened. 


Simple, tell him he sucks as a Dom and is hurting people. Until he changes or gets training he is not allowed around. If he refuses training or still causes pain or problems to the subbies, beat the shit out of him. Granted it may not be the best political decision or even the right thing to do but as a Dom and Dungeon Master for many parties locally I feel it is MY responsibility to make sure new subbies are protected from the would be doms who harm them through lack of knowledge or just being a schmuck. I had to deal with a would be dom like this last year who's idea of rape play (with a willing sub of course who wanted the forced sex play) was to tell the sub, "I want you to resist or you will feel intense pain" he then proceeded to punch her in the stomach and shove her down a flight of stairs.  I told him if I ever hear of him scening again without knowing what in the hell he was doing he would not like our next meeting and that I was incredibly angry with him. A few days later he came to me asking for hep and I sent him to a freind for training. I hear he is doing better.


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First rule in dealing with the Devil............................
..................................................................DON'T!

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 5:55:56 AM   
lusciouslips19


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It just shows... A little knowledge, mixed with ego and arrogance is a dangerous thing.

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Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 6:07:28 AM   
MissMorrigan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRaid
A few days later he came to me asking for hep and I sent him to a freind for training. I hear he is doing better.

Your anger management training doesn't seem to be working so well, I hope your friend is more adept in training methods, perhaps you could benefit from his services also?


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A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 6:20:31 AM   
MasterRaid


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(Chuckles) In some cases I feel passion about the saftey of the submissive is more important than tact.

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..................................................................DON'T!

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 6:26:59 AM   
colouredin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRaid

I had to deal with a would be dom like this last year who's idea of rape play (with a willing sub of course who wanted the forced sex play) was to tell the sub, "I want you to resist or you will feel intense pain" he then proceeded to punch her in the stomach and shove her down a flight of stairs. I told him if I ever hear of him scening again without knowing what in the hell he was doing he would not like our next meeting and that I was incredibly angry with him. A few days later he came to me asking for hep and I sent him to a freind for training. I hear he is doing better.



Oh the formality, sent him to a friend for training??? really? Also I know of MANY subs who enjoy being punched etc, its different folks for different strokes, who are you to stick your nose in? Fair enough if he came to you for help you give it him but were you there? Do you know how it went? OR did you hear about it? Im expecting the latter and you know what thats not the best way to decide. If a person comes to me because their dom hasnt treated them well in their opinion I tell them not to see them again. One persons abuser is anothers ideal


_____________________________

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 6:32:33 AM   
MissMorrigan


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Ah, but don't you also think that to master others, it is partly through teaching by example? Violence breeds more of the same b/c usually the person on the receiving end of it broods, the resentment festers and the outlet for it is usually a person in whom they sense some kind of weakness?  I've dealt with violence the majority of my life - not in my personal life. It rarely accomplishes anything other than a quick, easy release of the frustrations of the person dishing it out when they can't find any other means of correcting a situation.

Occasionally Reality is turned into a punching bag for me, I'll don my gloves (if I'm feeling brutal I won't bother with the gloves) and go at him until I've expended my energy and we're both left gasping for air. If people saw us they'd feel the utmost sympathy for him and I'm sure I'd elicit the anger of many at 'mistreating' my boy - Hopefully many from here will meet us both in the near future whether that be at Brighton Pride, or at Greedy's return to England, people will see just how downtrodden, passive and mistreated he is.  You're welcome to come knocking on my door and teach me a lesson, Master Raid. But then, I love seeing grown men cry (said partly in jest).

Joking aside, I do not see the benefit in lashing out at someone in anger. There have been many occasions when I've felt so angry at another's actions that I've wanted to hit him - it's a fairly natural reaction for many. The moment I cross that line I'm engaging in hypocrisy and giving them the message that it's fine for me to be violent, not for them - the question then is, why not?


< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 4/8/2009 6:44:14 AM >


_____________________________

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 7:42:08 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

The cheating is not what I was refering to Morggy. But you as a woman understand what I am talking about. If a woman does try to defend herself against a mans attack, she is made to prove it instead of beleieved. Shes called a liar,so why speak up? Why should anyone care whats happening? The women is villified when she tries to take a stand.
It all depends on one's perspective, doesn't it? 

What you seem to state is that "rape is rape" but with the laws written the way they are anymore, is that really the truth of it?  A woman allows a man into her apartment, they get naked...consensually...they begin the horizontal mambo and about halfway through it, she decides "no".  He's just THIS close to cumming and she decides "no".  If he does not stop, then in many states, he has just committed "Date Rape".  Never mind the fact that she was consensual in what was going on.  Never mind that it was her hormones, not just his, that helped get them into the position they were in ... if her brain and/or her conscience overrides the influence of her hormones at any time, the man is supposed to make the same switch at the same time.  I call B. S. on that.  Rape used to be clear cut, at least to anyone with sense who chose to prosecute it, to juries who've put plenty of rapists away, etc..  Have there been abuses...calling a woman's past into question, etc?  Sure there were.  Times have changed.  But not all of the change has been good.  Tis hard sometimes to look at some women and think of how they want to be treated equally, including the right to equal responsibility except when it comes down to their own "bad" decisions.

I've related the story on these boards before about being invited to go see and spend some time with a submissive that I was interested in.  I did go to see her, took time out of the office and everything.  We spent a pleasant three days and two evenings together.  I woke up the third day with my bag dropped by my head and these words "you have 15 minutes to get dressed and get out or the cops will be here."  I didn't argue, I just left.  I spent my whole trip through that state looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights.  I'd be willing to bet that my visit was a source of "badddddddddddd dominant" material for at least several conversations at her next munch/club meeting.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  I'm not saying that there aren't predatory dominants out there.  So do a class on what newbies should watch for in male dominants.  But here's a question...how about a class for new male dominants about what to watch for in predatory/psycho submissives?

Hijack over.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 4/8/2009 7:57:59 AM >

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RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 8:00:48 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRaid
A few days later he came to me asking for hep and I sent him to a freind for training. I hear he is doing better.

Your anger management training doesn't seem to be working so well, I hope your friend is more adept in training methods, perhaps you could benefit from his services also?



I dont get why you reprimanded the above person? He handled the offender appropriately. He didnt toanything but say he was angry and tell the offender he wouldnt like how he was delt with if he did it again.

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? - 4/8/2009 8:04:39 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

I've related the story on these boards before about being invited to go see and spend some time with a submissive that I was interested in.  I did go to see her, took time out of the office and everything.  We spent a pleasant three days and two evenings together.  I woke up the third day with my bag dropped by my head and these words "you have 15 minutes to get dressed and get out or the cops will be here."  I didn't argue, I just left.  I spent my whole trip through that state looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights.  I'd be willing to bet that my visit was a source of "badddddddddddd dominant" material for at least several conversations at her next munch/club meeting.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen.  I'm not saying that there aren't predatory dominants out there.  So do a class on what newbies should watch for in male dominants.  But here's a question...how about a class for new male dominants about what to watch for in predatory/psycho submissives?

Hijack over.


Just goes to show you how crazy people can be and why knowing aperson a little more than afew days before playing is warranted. Istill think public play is still the safest because it is monitored and you can find out about reputation on either end of the flogger.



_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 80
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