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RE: On torture. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 7:37:19 AM

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Actually, this kind of thing was pioneered under the Clintons - and the Obama administration is packed with a lot of the exact same staff who the Clintons used.

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RE: On torture. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 7:47:51 AM

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Hello Owner59; Of course you are absolutely correct....and if you remember the Mei Li massacre by Lt. Calley; the Nurenburg trials were brought up, citing the orders came from above Calley, he was just following orders; and the ones above him all were responsible for Calley's actions as Well, and were to be held accountible as well as Calley...... that didn't fly, and the Nurenburg issue was just side stepped. Calley was made the scape goat.

When Bush et al, endorsed torture, which incidently he says "we do not condone torture." .... has in fact, jusified torture....Saddam et al, should have not been held responsible nor accountible as now Bush et al, claim non accountibity for the very same actions Bush accuses others.

Incidently, just two days ago Condolezza Rice was found out....it seems she gave direct orders and okayed the CIA to commit tortures. Now she is mad as hell.....why; not out of shame for the actions but because she was ratted out. This may adversly impact upon her new executive position with the William Morris Ad Agency.

If you want to see a Documentary on this torture issue, see ...'Taxi to the Dark Side.'

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 7:55:01 AM

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The Documentry 'Taxi to the Darkside'
Yup; a little water-boarding, never hurt anyone.

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RE: On torture. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 7:57:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ienigma777

If you want to see a Documentary on this torture issue, see ...'Taxi to the Dark Side.'

Saw it.

Only wish more of those discounting torture as something less than torture would view it.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 12:17:51 PM

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What's amazing about those "torture" techniques is that they are less harmfull than some of the stuff on this website.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/24/2009 12:34:10 PM

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Gman I do not find it amazing at all. Fantasy with consent is HUGELY different to the reality.

Regarding Taxi to the darkside, very interesting doc, but Im thinking the ones who are blase about torture will never watch it or ignore what it shows.
Lucy

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/25/2009 12:04:27 AM

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This just in: Hannity is a wuss!
The FOX News commentator at first agreed to be waterboarded for charity... has now, officially, (through a spokesman) refused to go through with it. He had several standing offers for charitable donations to groups that benefitted wounded vets if he went through with it... (including a $1000 per second he could withstand the "enhanced interrogation technique" that Hannity himself has been a cheerleader for all these months)... but to no avail. Hannity has refused to do it. Not to prove his own opinion. Not to support the troops. Not even to increase his ratings. (!)

FUCKING.
WORTHLESS.
COWARD!

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/25/2009 8:04:40 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

This just in: Hannity is a wuss!
The FOX News commentator at first agreed to be waterboarded for charity... has now, officially, (through a spokesman) refused to go through with it. He had several standing offers for charitable donations to groups that benefitted wounded vets if he went through with it... (including a $1000 per second he could withstand the "enhanced interrogation technique" that Hannity himself has been a cheerleader for all these months)... but to no avail. Hannity has refused to do it. Not to prove his own opinion. Not to support the troops. Not even to increase his ratings. (!)

FUCKING.
WORTHLESS.
COWARD!

I love it.

Now the conservative apologists will begin to explain how this was not a hypocritical decision, after applauding the fact he would prove it "was just a little water poured on someone's face".

Way too funny!

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/26/2009 1:33:10 AM

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Bush did what he was told, he didn't have the brains to understand the implications of his actions... however, ignorence is no defence.

The illegal invasion of Iraq, and subsequent torture and abuse of "insurgents" has merely created a feeling of persecution within the Islamic world. All it has done is widen the gaps between east and west, and further the recruitment of willing members to Al Qaeda's cause.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/26/2009 12:44:20 PM

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Just curious, is there any sources out there at all that show Hannity chickening out?

I see an absurd number of people expecting him to, but zero sources from any news site actually covering it. (And I've seen MarsBonfire say enough untrue things to be skeptical without another source).

Note, I'm not saying he didn't chicken out, just want some verification.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/26/2009 3:37:25 PM

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Well since even garbage sites like KOS is salivating at this, and their latest update says that they're waiting for a response from Hannity, until I see otherwise, I'm presuming that there's no truth to MarsBonfire's post at the time that he posted it.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/26/2009 4:48:23 PM

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Kinkroids, there is torture and then there is...torture. Waterboarding as practiced on one prisoner. Think about this and yes, it has been on TV:

They waterboarded a guy 180 something times. Don't you think that after say the first couple dozen or even 90-91 times, the thought began to creep in that...'hey, these guys aren't really going to drown me.'

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 4/26/2009 4:55:57 PM >

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 4/26/2009 5:21:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Kinkroids, there is torture and then there is...torture. Waterboarding as practiced on one prisoner. Think about this and yes, it has been on TV:

They waterboarded a guy 180 something times. Don't you think that after say the first couple dozen or even 90-91 times, the thought began to creep in that...'hey, these guys aren't really going to drown me.'

How about we tweak that just a bit......Don't you think that after the first couple dozen or even90-91 times,the thought began to creep in that.....hey this guy probably doesn't know anymore?

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/6/2009 5:19:10 PM

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quote:

Source: No charges seen over interrogation memos

WASHINGTON – Justice Department investigators say Bush administration lawyers who approved harsh interrogation techniques of terror suspects should not face criminal charges, according to a draft report that also recommends two of the three attorneys face possible professional sanctions.

The Obama administration decided last month to make public legal memos authorizing the use of harsh interrogation methods but not to prosecute CIA interrogators who followed the advice outlined in the memos.

That decision angered conservatives who accused President Barack Obama of selling out the CIA, and from liberals who thought he was being too forgiving of practices they — and Obama — call torture. The president's rhetoric, if not actual policy, shifted on the matter as the political fallout intensified.

Officials conducting the internal Justice Department inquiry into the lawyers who wrote those memos have recommended referring two of the three lawyers — John Yoo and Jay Bybee — to state bar associations for possible disciplinary action, according to a person familiar with the inquiry. The person, who spoke on condition of anonymity, was not authorized to discuss the inquiry. The person noted that the investigative report was still in draft form and subject to revisions. Attorney General Eric Holder also may make his own determination about what steps to take once the report has been finalized.

(Full article here).

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/6/2009 7:53:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Kinkroids, there is torture and then there is...torture. Waterboarding as practiced on one prisoner. Think about this and yes, it has been on TV:

They waterboarded a guy 180 something times. Don't you think that after say the first couple dozen or even 90-91 times, the thought began to creep in that...'hey, these guys aren't really going to drown me.'

First of all, "180 times" was over just a few sessions...a "waterboarding" is counted each time he's dunked. Second, you apparently don't understand that panic crowds out logical thought like "they arent really going to drown me".

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/7/2009 4:52:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Kinkroids, there is torture and then there is...torture. Waterboarding as practiced on one prisoner. Think about this and yes, it has been on TV:

They waterboarded a guy 180 something times. Don't you think that after say the first couple dozen or even 90-91 times, the thought began to creep in that...'hey, these guys aren't really going to drown me.'

First of all, "180 times" was over just a few sessions...a "waterboarding" is counted each time he's dunked. Second, you apparently don't understand that panic crowds out logical thought like "they arent really going to drown me".

Funny, when I watched the video of the waterboarding, no one got dunked But I will agree with the panic thing. When I was in the water torture demo at LR, I wasn't thinking about the hot women playing with me. I was thinking OMG I can't breath. Now maybe after close to 100 times I would have gotten used to it, but they didn't go that long, so I can't really say.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/9/2009 8:39:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I for one think just the opposite. I think thatPresident Bush will go down in history as the one President willing to do what it took to end worldwide terrorism. So he authorised putting a bug on a terrorist to make him talk. So What...

What? In the 7 years since 9/11 the worldwide body count from terrorist actions ha sgone up not down from the 7 years prior. GWB, torture, unlawful imprisonments and the invasion of Iraq led to more deaths caused by terrorist attacks not less.

In the 7 years since 9/11 the average global temperature has risen 5/8 of a degree, and has led to more deaths caused by terrorist attacks.

Both theories are possible, and neither one can be proven.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/9/2009 8:47:08 AM

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Per the NY Times

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The United States prosecuted some Japanese interrogators at war crimes trials after World War II for waterboarding and other methods detailed in the memos.

I didnt think this smelled right when I read it, and it isnt. The technique was not waterboarding it was the "water cure". Forced ingestion of massive quantities of water, causing extreme abdominal pain. Sometimes accompanied by jumping up and down on the engorged stomach.

NY Times: all the mistakes that fit, we print. Fit our agenda that is.

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/9/2009 9:02:33 AM

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quote:

CIA Says Pelosi Was Briefed on Use of 'Enhanced Interrogations'

Intelligence officials released documents this evening saying that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) was briefed in September 2002 about the use of harsh interrogation tactics against al-Qaeda prisoners, seemingly contradicting her repeated statements over the past 18 months that she was never told that these techniques were actually being used.

In a 10-page memo outlining an almost seven-year history of classified briefings, intelligence officials said that Pelosi and then-Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.) were the first two members of Congress ever briefed on the interrogation tactics. Then the ranking member and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, respectively, Pelosi and Goss were briefed Sept. 4, 2002, one week before the first anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The memo, issued by the Director of National Intelligence and the Central Intelligence Agency to Capitol Hill, notes the Pelosi-Goss briefing covered "EITs including the use of EITs on Abu Zubaydah." EIT is an acronym for enhanced interrogation technique. Zubaydah was one of the earliest valuable al-Qaeda members captured and the first to have the controversial tactic known as water boarding used against him.

The issue of what Pelosi knew and when she knew it has become a matter of heated debate on Capitol Hill. Republicans have accused her of knowing for many years precisely the techniques CIA agents were using in interrogations, and only protesting the tactics when they became public and liberal antiwar activists protested.

(Full article here).

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RE: On torchure. Obama is WRONG - 5/9/2009 9:13:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelNUnsual

Per the NY Times

The United States prosecuted some Japanese interrogators at war crimes trials after World War II for waterboarding and other methods detailed in the memos.

I didnt think this smelled right when I read it, and it isnt. The technique was not waterboarding it was the "water cure". Forced ingestion of massive quantities of water, causing extreme abdominal pain. Sometimes accompanied by jumping up and down on the engorged stomach.

NY Times: all the mistakes that fit, we print. Fit our agenda that is.

You need to smell around a little more:

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors.[71] At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again… I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death.

Waterboarding - MSN Encarta

Following World War II (1939-1945) American prosecutors convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding Allied prisoners of war. The soldiers were tried as part of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, also known as the Tokyo War Crimes Trials.

McCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding - CBS News

(AP) Republican presidential candidate John McCain reminded people Thursday that some Japanese were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with techniques that included waterboarding.

"There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans," McCain said during a news conference.

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