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Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:12:08 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		I am in a bit of an unplesant situation....would appreciate any discussion, ideas, advice, etc.

I have a slave whom I put My collar on 6 years ago. I married her about a year after I took her into My home (when I gave her My collar).

she was a "doormat" personality when she came to Me. I have helped her grow and accept herself and put a lot (most) of her baggage behind her. She can easily carry the rest....

however as she has grown and worked through her issues, she has lost a lot of the spark that was fuel for her submission.

I could not continue the chain of abuse that brought her to Me. I had rather expected her to countinue to want to submit because of her love for Me, but it seems with out the overwhelming fear of failure, and guilt issues spuring her....she is unable or unwilling.

she now claims she wants a nilla life, husband/wife with Me....there is a distinct "or else I need to leave" air to her statement.

---

Perhaps I simply fucked up a good thing....but I would do it again as all of the changes besides mabey losing her submissiveness are 100% for her betterment.

I do not want to get to much into her past issues and what not, but need to focus on where to go from here.

I really didn't see this coming /shrug.

---

Odd thing is, as much as she appears to and sounds as if she would rather leave than submit any longer, If I try to walk out or say anything about making her leave.
she breaks down instantly.

the other day she refused to put on her seatbelt (it has been a rule since day one, seat belt on in car).. she sometimes forgets and a gentle reminder will be enough.

this day however she was making the fool, screaming yelling, cussing and refusing to belt up.....simply because I told her to and "I will not submit" (her words)

I pulled over, explained I would not drive the car with her seatbelt off because I love her and do not want her injured (all the while she is yelling now about how I dont care about her I just want to abouse her and hurt her)

I calmy told her that I would only ask her once more to put on the seatbelt.

Response, if you touch me or try to put the belt on, I am leaving (not her words but same point)

without saying anything else I step out of the vehicle and begin to walk away from the car.

before I could go 30 feet, she was out of the car..in front of Me on the shoulder of the road, on her knees (she usually is very very timid about anything public) she didnt seem to even notic the passing traffic much less care about them as she knelt on the street and begged Me to allow her back in the car, she promised to wear her belt.

I agreed, we get back in the car, and she belts up.

----

My point is she claims she wants to leave, then panics if anything happens that appears to be headed that way....she will almost instantly submit to anything if she fears I will leave or send her away (its a hold over from her baggage)...

But she claims to not want to submit, just feels she has to to keep our relationship together.... Apparently opposite feelings from what she acts.

-----------

Are you confused yet because I sure as hell am!

She wants a nilla life that I know I am unable to give, yet for all the talk about rather being gone than submitting she panics if I agree and tell her to leave or if seems I will leave.

I do not want to manipulate her by threating to leave or send her away or anyof that...

But I do want to bring this to a conclusion, I would prefer she stay and submit (and I do love her). Hell I would even accept a "nilla" relathionship (where I would not expect her submission)

except I am not good at not getting My way on most things, and once I agreed to allow her freedom from submission, that turned into you dont pay me any attintion anymore...

this bitch is driving me crazy, I love her though and want a life with her....but can only change so much (if at all).

-----------

Well if nothing else thanks for hearing me ramble.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:27:28 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I am confused but I will give you a short answer to what I understand to be happening...
She is manipulative and has been all of her life, only with previous men, it's probably lead to physical and emotional abuse... With you, it seems to be working beautifully because she continually throws tantrums, and you continually let her get away with it, and slowly she is coming to take full control over the relationship.

Maybe you two need counseling to learn how to communicate better.
Maybe you two need to decide whether you love enough/care enough to try to work things out.
Maybe you both need to decide what you can/cannot live without, and determine where to go from there without soooooooooo much drama. I could never stand anyone who behaved like an out of control three year old continually (not even if I gave birth to him).
Good luck, M

P.S. I absolutely hated this part of your post!
quote:

this bitch is driving me crazy, I love her though and want a life with her....but can only change so much (if at all).


_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:33:07 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		Thank you for your response, as for hating that part of my post, I basicaly ment what you said when you said you could never stand anyone who behaved like an out of control three year old.....I am simply to stressed to be delicate with my wording.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:34:12 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		Im sorry for Your predicament Sir. She sounds really confused.

Trying to think of a suggestion..........ummm


From the sounds of it, she is submissive yet for some reason she thinks to be totally healed of her past she needs not to be....so i hesitate a suggestion ..give her what she wants. Say ok vanilla relationship it is.

If she is really submissive, it wont take long for her to realise her foolishness and perhaps embrace it even more, free from the feeling it makes her powerless or less of a person.

I'm not sure what else to say. I hope it all works out for you.


P.S.

quote:

this bitch is driving me crazy, I love her though and want a life with her....but can only change so much (if at all).


i didnt take that offensively at all..it seemed to me like He was just using the word in an affectionate frustrated way......typing words ...amazing how different people take things different ways. *grin*

< Message edited by slavejali -- 2/7/2006 5:37:41 PM >

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:40:39 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		Good idea, in fact I have tried that....I said ok here fine, nilla relationship do as you want when you want how you want I will not try to "control".

Here response to this, in a very short amount of time was to complain about how I no longer pay her enough attintion and began a laundry list of "things a good husband would do"....

I am not going to get caught up in a role reversal here, I am trying to make her happy and help her figure out what she wants but......

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 5:44:09 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		What is her reasoning behind wanting a vanilla relationship?

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 6:07:51 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		Her reasons have been...

Because all you want to do is hurt and abuse me, (this has been a long term drama fest, and it has been well over 2 years since anything even close to "abuse" has been done and that was with full consent before the "I want to go free stuff started happening".....

Because I dont need to submit to feel worthy of love anymore....(this is like a good thing but still wires crossed somewhere)

Neither reason sounds very convincing on a "I would rather leave you than do this" sorta scale....

I think that BlkTallFullfig is correct though about her being manipulative, well there is no "think" about it she is....

for 2 weeks I only asked her to submit to things I know she enjoys, to enclude things she pretends to dislike but positivly glows about.....(she is not very honest with herself or with me, she is better than she was 5 years ago but still not quite secure with how she feels, which makes my job difficult but I digress)

absolutly no problems with submission, she claimed to be happier than she has been in a very long time...

then 3 days ago she broke a handfull of simple domestic type rules that have been in place since day one....within minutes of me talking with her about what happend and why, she claims she wants the nilla life.

2 days ago she cuts her har though, which since day one I have told her if she wants to trim or style her hair she has to ask me first.....since day one I have made it clear if she did not I would shave her bald.....it was mostly a joke because she rarely would do anything I did not want, and deffinatly wouldent do something that drastic..

so it was mostly a joke, but was told to her enough and serrious that I feel its the last straw, if I dont shave her I might as well hang up the whip so to speak.

Her response to cutting her hair was its my hair, not yours and if you even think about shaving me I will leave because I want to be nilla....

she kept her sister here all day and overnight she only left in just enough time to go to work....not usually behavior for either of them I feel she was worried about me tossing her down and using the shears on her... not sure what sis thought she would do but /shrug

I told her I am tired of the bullshit and if she wants to leave she is of course welcome to, if she wants to submit fetch me the shears and some shaving cream, and if she wants to be nilla then I dont know get me a beer and shut up like a normal wife (ok I was a bit pissed)

she is at work right now and currently we are in she wants to be nilla and has a list of things a good husband should do....

whew, more confused yet?

thanks btw for your ear

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 6:46:26 PM   
Petruchio


Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline 		FullFig has a point there.

Another view is that you may have helped her grow up. You may have been even a father figure to her at one time. Now she may feel she doesn't need a father anymore.

I've been there and made the same mistakes. I don't know any other way.

(in reply to BlkTallFullfig)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 7:07:37 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with most of the responses. Let her go. She's confused, probably manipulative, and in any case not the girl for you. One of my policies (and I learned the hard way) is that you can't have a serious relationship with someone who is confused about what she wants.

(in reply to Petruchio)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 7:10:17 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline 		I hate to lose anything though, and she is quite a bit more than "anything"...

I think thats whats going to have to happen, but I would prefer not to...

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 7:54:17 PM   
Sabella


Posts: 265
Joined: 7/26/2005
Status: offline 		It sounds more hormonal/emotional to ME than any sincere desire to go nilla or drive you bananas.

Has she had a checkup lately? has her diet changed? recent sickness? going thru menopause? had a miscarriage? wanting a child perhaps but you two have already decided not to have kids?

Her behavior to ME sounds like she's challenging you (yet terrified while she does it) to take authority.

If you make a decision, stick to it. Waffling when she pushes the point is non productive. But I do think it's something ELSE besides just a change of heart.

JMHO

_____________________________

“The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind and he died of what he saw there.”
From The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:00:04 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Let her go. She's confused, probably manipulative, and in any case not the girl for you.


I am not sure I agree with this advice. She is collared to him and they are married as well. I hate to think what was intended as a life commitment is so disposable. I get the sense he cares deeply for her and vice versa.

I can get behind confused and manipulative though. Toss in scared and probably not used to being in a healthy relationship or dealing with issues in a healthy way.

quote:

she has lost a lot of the spark that was fuel for her submission.


Could it be her lack of enthusiasm is simply a symptom of the inevitable and very normal "down time" in a relationship. Where things are not shiny and new and the energy is not what it once was and you start to wonder what is wrong? Where is the passion? Oh...it must be x.

My suggestion would be to do some soul searching about type of relationship you can be fulfilled by. I don't think you can work through things with her until you have a clear idea of what you want and what changes you are or are not willing to make. Could you plan "nilla times", like specific nights or activities? Are there some expectations that might be renegotiated? Does she have specific things that really boither her that might be adapted if that is acceptable to you? Could you have time outs, where she is free to express anything? Can you work out a signal for when she is feeling like she needs some breathing room and you are willing to give her a bit? Does she have support of other submissive women and could you encourage her to make friend in that way? What about other everyday interests?

Then I would restablish basic routines and expectations, with her input but with you as the final decision maker. I would not allow her tantrums or hysterics to control a situation. I would have consistent and clear consequences. I would manage my own anger. On the other end, I would work to strengthen the marriage in typical relationship-y ways -- enjoyable activities together, communication, snuggle time, fun, building intimacy, etc.

It may that she really DID need submission only as a crutch and that chapter of her life is winding down. It may be that you really can only be fulfilled in the long term by a s/D dynamic. That would be sad and sucky for you both, and is likely you would bear the responsibility oif decided enough is enough. Blah. However, I suspect it is just growing pains. Relationships evolve. It does not HAVE to be just slave or just vanilla wife.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:10:17 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I don't know...she does sound manipulative to me...

And yes, you are right about the hair thing, unfortunately. She sounds like a 6 year old I know. Her mom told her she would not get to play with her Christmas presents until she cleaned her room. It is now Feb 7th, and that room is still not clean! I am proud of my friend though...those toys are still put up and getting close to being given away...

It seems to me that if a domly type says he/she will do something if certain actions are taken/not taken, if they don't follow through, they do lose all credibility in the sub/slaves eyes...

I think what I would do, is give her the choice of continuing to serve, (in which case the hair is symbolic now, and really must go)...or....let her go...set her up in an apartment for 3 months, after which time you will sit down together and discuss what you both want/need in a relationship.

If you do that though...don't let her come crawling back before the time is up...you both will need the distance and the time to come to mature rational decisions...instead of emotional ones...

This is only my opinion...YMMV...

(in reply to Sabella)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:22:06 PM   
Troubleinparadis


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Tulsa, Ok
Status: offline
quote:

Could it be her lack of enthusiasm is simply a symptom of the inevitable and very normal "down time" in a relationship. Where things are not shiny and new and the energy is not what it once was and you start to wonder what is wrong? Where is the passion? Oh...it must be x.
I realy dont think so.

As for planning free time, and down time and what not...I have tried that by rewarding good behaviour with "time out" and "free passes".....just flat didnt work well she never wanted to use them "beacause i only have x ammount and dont want to use them up". explaining how I had no fear of her earning more, and explaining the reasons behind wanting her to use them did nothing.

really as I type this all out here, and step back and look she never really "wants to go nilla" until she has broken a rule, or otherwise done something "wrong", except for a couple of times when I suspect she had done wrong but not been caught perhaps?..

I think she has perhaps latched onto My reluctance to be an abuser, My thoughts are that a sub should sub because they like to sub or want to please the dom, I dont belive my dominance should be forced apon her (as it has been her entire life)

her understanding of my reluctance to be an abuser, + her manipulative nature I think could quite possibly be fueling an "I can get out of trouble if I just throw a hissy and say I dont want to be a slave anymore"....
cutting her har is a VERY drastic event, I have allways been dead set against any cutting, to the point of her having to "work" on me for a while before I would allow her to have it trimmed

perhaps she is simply crying out for Me to take what should be mine? Perhaps in my effort to heal her wounds, I have let my "strength" wavier, if even just in her perception?

----

I swear I should have taken that course in pshyc back in the day.

oh an Sabella as for hormones I hate to say my girl is crazy and she isent as bad as she was day 1....but she is not "right" emotionally.
tragic child hood, followed by abusive husband 1 & 2 (and then 1 & 2 together long story).....

She was goo, a dorrmat, and on a downward spiral when I got her, she now has a job and hasent tried suicide in 3 or 4 years.


(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:32:30 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

She was goo, a dorrmat, and on a downward spiral when I got her, she now has a job and hasent tried suicide in 3 or 4 years.
I'm all for helping people, especially if they want to be helped, but you are starting to sound like you're going to need help to get your feet back on the ground to figure out what is important and how to preserve your own dignity withing or after this tumultuous relationship. I hope you don't become the doormat (I should insert, unless that is what floats your boat ).

Wish you peace and light **(Angel's signature, I miss her postings).** M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 2/7/2006 8:33:07 PM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:40:55 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline 		I had my boy try something like this recently. It started with a screaming hissy fit on my cell while I was at the office. I actually had to go into a conference room quickly so that I could speak to him as he was shreaking that he wasn't gonna take it anymore and if he didn't get his way..... I thought that he was hurt in some way or had been attacked because the thoughts were pretty loud and incoherrant. After finally getting him to stop talking I went through and had to ask the questions are you hurt, has something happened, did someone do something to cause this reaction. The whole time he's acting like I'M THE LOONEY :) He announces that he'll be gone when I get home if I don't agree to him taking control. After a few seconds of shock I remind him that I was clear on who and what I am in the beginning and that if he felt that way he probably SHOULD leave.
He starts sobbing and asking me why I'm so mean???
After 4 more conversations throughout the afternoon asking why he felt this way and what was going through his mind I still had no better idea.
3 hour discussion that night degrades to name calling and him desperatly bullying for 50/50...yet he can't give me any explaination as to why this arrangement benefits me or what improvements he believes will occur.
His behavior was so bad, I actually got a visual of a little one I used to nanny, she had ADD and would clench her fists turn her face purple and scream I WANT WHAT I WANT!!! When you asked what that was she had not idea but she wanted what she wanted.

It sounds like you're having the same situation. She wants what she wants but has no idea of what that is. Unfortunatly having a 3rd party to "protect" her is an even worse sign. While I understand your drive as a master to remind her of her place I'm thinking that cutting her hair may actually end up up with a visit from the local policia or worse having to explain your "abuse" to her divorce attorney. She sounds as if she's had significant baggage that you've tried to help with...the question is has she had professional help?? Certain types of mania could help explain the odd behavior. the Kink Aware link may be of some help.
http://www.bannon.com/kap/psycho.htm#colorado

Frankly my questions to you are:
How devoted to your marriage are you?
What do you believe she would do to herself or others should you leave?
I was able to dismiss my sub as we didn't have legal entanglements, how would you feel about this proposition?
What do you believe that likelyhood is that she's going to the friends house instead of coming home?

Sorry to have so many but as usual in these situations I've got one point of view and not enough info.

(in reply to Sabella)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:42:18 PM   
sanita


Posts: 338
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		She may want You to panic at the very thought of her walking out, and perform magnificent displays of love, desire, affection, and passion in order to convince her to stay.

It is like shopping in bazaars in certain countries. The buyer REALLY wants the item, but in order to get the price down, will threaten to walk, or leave to come back, to convince the seller to roll over. That feeling when you leave the shop or stall, and then realise they are NOT chasing you out the door with a better deal is a bit unsteady. They are calling your bluff.

She is swinging to extremes, and may be enjoying the fact that she is playing emotional keep away from You. i agree, though, with Sabella. Check the physical/chemical/hormonal issues. You have known her for 6 years, if this is THAT sudden, then something caused it.

Either way, if You married the woman and collared the sub, then if she is no longer sub, You may have to go vanilla because You love the woman. However, vanilla does not mean she gets to break the law (seat belts are the law in most, if not all states, and i order my mom to buckle up if she forgets.), or that she gets to treat You like crap. By respecting You, she would not be "submitting" to You.

You can respect her need to put forth her independence, and she should respect You.

If You explain how much You want her there, but You won't tolerate threats like that on a vanilla or D/s basis, maybe the next step would be to find out what it is she wants. If You can provide it, then there is a chance, right?

Good luck.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 8:58:42 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Are you confused yet because I sure as hell am!

She wants a nilla life that I know I am unable to give, yet for all the talk about rather being gone than submitting she panics if I agree and tell her to leave or if seems I will leave.

I do not want to manipulate her by threating to leave or send her away or anyof that...

But I do want to bring this to a conclusion, I would prefer she stay and submit (and I do love her). Hell I would even accept a "nilla" relathionship (where I would not expect her submission)

except I am not good at not getting My way on most things, and once I agreed to allow her freedom from submission, that turned into you dont pay me any attintion anymore...

this bitch is driving me crazy, I love her though and want a life with her....but can only change so much (if at all).


Sounds to me like she's either bipolar, or she's trying to make you stand up and be Master. If it were my slave, I'd have to call her bluff. I'd pack her bags and show her the door, and then it would be up to her. If she really wanted to stay, then she'd be staying on MY terms. Not hers. My advice to you would be to not play her game, because if she's the only one who knows the rules, you have no chance of winning.

Emotional roller coasters are never as much fun as wooden ones, and only you can decide if you want to stay on the ride.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to Troubleinparadis)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 9:00:23 PM   
MistressAlexaS


Posts: 78
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		This woman is very confused and is being overwhelmed with a variety of emotions at the moment. I believe what she is trying to do is establish <maybe for the first time in her life> her own independence and she's not exactly sure how to do that. So its frustrating her to no end and its causing her to lash out at you. Don't we lash out at the ones we love the most?

I would say if you love her, truly love her, you may have to make some changes in yourself and that is recognize she is a freeperson with rights to do what she wishes. Realise that in your household you may have to make compromises now and sit down and talk things out. Things can't always go your way that is just how life is.

Perhaps she now see's her submission as a weakness, a weakness that left her open to abuse and she's trying to protect herself as best she can. But also she needs you as a stablizer for her. She probably feels caught between two worlds. The world of the independant woman and the one of the on the knees slave. She probably loves you very much and doesn't want to loose you, but she doesn't want to loose her new sense of self either. I would suggest getting counseling for both of you, I think it would help alot and perhaps then you could understand better what she's going thru and she could see what your going thru.

~Alexa

_____________________________

Self-reliance is the only road to true freedom, and being one's own person is its ultimate reward.
Patricia Sampson

(in reply to sanita)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Slave/wife wants to go nilla? - 2/7/2006 9:33:04 PM   
perverseangelic


Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evanesce
Sounds to me like she's either bipolar, or she's trying to make you stand up and be Master.


Agh! This is a pet peeve of mine. Fluctuating between 2 extreemly different opinions or even states of mind is -not- the definition of "bipolar" and while it may be a symptom of the illness, this statement isn't using it correctly.

I appologize, but "bipolar" has become the catchall for people who have fluctuating moods or opinions.

While this individual may well -be- bipolar, I don't think that her actions in relation to slave/not slave are an indication of it.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 20
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