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RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:32:17 AM

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quote:

I don’t feel it’s cool for a dom to kiss his sub’s feet because it is really an act of putting himself below that of the sub. In our culture this is seen as a submissive act. There is no denying this fact and to say that you love to kiss or worship feet but are still the dom in the relation is fine but during that act you are submitting to the sub by the very nature of the act in our culture

So, if my Dom has me pinned beneath his body, or tied so I can't move (one or the other is likely), and decides that he wants to play with my feet (which I hate) instead of my cunt (which I love), he's submitting to me? Really? LMAO, not in my world. He's simply doing what he wants with what is his.

This argument usually comes up in relation to cunnilingus, actually. Some will steadfastly insist that a Dom who enjoys giving oral to his sub is submitting to her (sound familiar, anyone?)

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(in reply to Ownednoperated)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 4:19:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ownednoperated
The reality is, the biomechanics involved in bringing one's head, the highest part on the body, to another's foot, the lowest part on the body, is a near universal act of submission, or at least respect."

So the next time I am totally bound and he leans over me, biomechanically bending his head, to my feet, to perform bastinado, he is actually submitting to me? HaHaHa

And I hope to God he never stops respecting me, anymore than I stop respecting him. Because it is our mutual respect and love that allows us to have such a good relationship.

I will go farther and state that any good working relationship must have respect from both sides. Do you work well for someone you despise or who despises you? No, the dislike and disrespect prevents you from working as well as you would in a better relationship.

You may well get off on that lowly worm stuff, the rest of us do not.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Ownednoperated)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 7:32:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

So the next time I am totally bound and he leans over me, biomechanically bending his head, to my feet, to perform bastinado, he is actually submitting to me? HaHaHa

bas⋅ti⋅na⋅do [bas-tuh-ney-doh, -nah-doh]

1. a mode of punishment consisting of blows with a stick on the soles of the feet or on the buttocks.
2. a blow or a beating with a stick, cudgel, etc.
3. a stick or cudgel.

–verb (used with object)
4. to beat with a stick, cane, etc., esp. on the soles of the feet or on the buttocks.

soooo, as we can clearly see, "bastinado" does not involve "biomechanics of the head" at all. Just sayin'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
I will go farther and state that any good working relationship must have respect from both sides.

Now waitaminute. Who are you to decree what is a "good working relationship"? Who says a relationship HAS to have respect from both sides?

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 8:56:03 AM

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From: Apple County NY
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If he doesn't bend his head, he can't see what he's doing. Seriously the person I quoted said that simply bending the head towards the feet meant he was a secret sub. The Man's a head taller than me, if he doesn't biomechanically bend his head, he can't see what he's doing. Especially if I'm bound flat on the bed and he's standing up. The only way he could then not bend his head in order to see would be for him to sit on the floor.

A play relationship with no respect? Certainly. Prodommes get a lot of that from their clients. Yet they still do respect the clients, they don't send photos to his wife to show how much she disrespects them. She doesn't cut off his testicles to show how much she disrespects him. She respects his limits.

And a full relationship, where you live together, where you love each other cannot be done while despising the partner. You cannot love them and at the same time tell them all the time for real, not just for humiliation play, that they're stupid, that they're ugly, that they deserved to be raped by an older sibling for ten years straight, that they should be grateful for crumbs because nobody else would ever want them. Deliberately doing permanent damage of that sort does not show love or respect.

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 9:40:21 AM

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Joined: 9/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If he doesn't bend his head, he can't see what he's doing. Seriously the person I quoted said that simply bending the head towards the feet meant he was a secret sub.

Maybe he could keep his head back..way back or get a neck collar
to keep it up.... oh wait that is submitting
and if want to get 'f"e d frem behind I better write "MY COCK" on his dic first..
so he knows I am not sub
and because I love to bath my boyz I must remember to stand above and slap them many times with the wash cloth..I will put the cloth on a stick..yes thats it

GM

< Message edited by GYPSYMAMBO -- 10/7/2009 9:42:18 AM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 10:35:02 AM

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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If he doesn't bend his head, he can't see what he's doing. Seriously the person I quoted said that simply bending the head towards the feet meant he was a secret sub.

Really? I read something completely different in the comment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The Man's a head taller than me, if he doesn't biomechanically bend his head, he can't see what he's doing. Especially if I'm bound flat on the bed and he's standing up. The only way he could then not bend his head in order to see would be for him to sit on the floor.

Well, ok. If I simply bend my head to tie my shoes, yeah that's biomechanics involving the head toward the feet… but I think it's obvious the quote was referring to when a man puts his head to the foot of a woman to kiss it or suck on it. That is a little different than bending your head down a little to see what you're doing while you're beating the crap out of someone's feet... wouldn't you say?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
She doesn't cut off his testicles to show how much she disrespects him. She respects his limits.

Wow, examples that seem a wee bit out of context, I think! Similarly, not blowing the gas station up down the street is a sign I respect it. I think it might be better to narrow our focus a little and define what form of "respect" we are talking about here. Maybe the word isn't the best choice, I'll admit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
And a full relationship, where you live together, where you love each other cannot be done while despising the partner.

Who says they're life partners? Or lovers? What is a "full relationship" full of? What does that really mean in a lifestyle with masters and slaves? What if one is a slave and the other is the owner and it's more than just kinky garnish on a romantic relationshp? I try to keep in mind that not everyone is in this for romantic life partner stuff and simply playing at m&s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
You cannot love them and at the same time tell them all the time for real, not just for humiliation play, that they're stupid, that they're ugly, that they deserved to be raped by an older sibling for ten years straight, that they should be grateful for crumbs because nobody else would ever want them. Deliberately doing permanent damage of that sort does not show love or respect.

Again, no argument here about it not showing respect, but why is your definition of respect needed in all legitimate relationships?

The fact is it isn't. Some slaves are probably talked to like they are stupid and nobody wants them, and that they should be grateful for crumbs.

You said earlier, "You may well get off on that lowly worm stuff, the rest of us do not. " Well, once more, who appointed you as spokesperson for the entire community, and who is this us? It sure as heck aint including me. I think your arguments would be better framed when speaking for yourself, because some people DO get off and live by that "lowly worm stuff." I dont really think that's too hard to imagine given the lifestyle we're in.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 11:01:39 AM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Hmmm, just like some doms get off on actions that others perceive as 'too submissive', imagine that. Diversity of experience & opinion. Who'd o' thunk?

& then there's the incongruency contained in this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

You said earlier, "You may well get off on that lowly worm stuff, the rest of us do not. " Well, once more, who appointed you as spokesperson for the entire community, and who is this us? It sure as heck aint including me. I think your arguments would be better framed when speaking for yourself, because some people DO get off and live by that "lowly worm stuff." I dont really think that's too hard to imagine given the lifestyle we're in.

Um, chastising Des for her us & then falling back into asserting a we at the end . . . . . Thanks for the laugh, I'm so persuaded by the rigorous display of logical argumentation . . . . .

[/sarcasm]

Oh, & I did 'hear' two sizeable factions in this thread -- (a) the kissing-feet-&-etc-is-inherently-submissive crowd, & (b) the doms-get-to-do-whatever-they-please crowd . . . . . .. So, I'm guessing that that does constitute some kind of us-versus-them thing, for those inclined to see the world in such a frame . .. . .

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 11:33:15 AM

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quote:

...Um, chastising Des for her us & then falling back into asserting a we at the end . . . . . Thanks for the laugh, I'm so persuaded by the rigorous display of logical argumentation . . . . .

not to speak for SimplyIsaac, but this slave took him to mean the "we" as in Des and himself...and took the "us" that Des was referring to as herself AND everyone else other than him.
then again, it could just be because this slave has noticed the same thing he did...she does tend to "speak for the group" from time to time.

more to the topic, Master and His slave attended a presentation by Master Skip a while back that included audience participation---Masters/slaves, Doms/subs taking turns washing, massaging and drying their partner's feet. it was a very moving experience and Master didn't strike this slave as submissive for participating...or this slave as dominant, either, for that matter.

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 11:47:12 AM

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From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Eh, but everybody does that big overgeneralization thing . . . . . lol . . . . If we were all to be jumping all of us over the lack of quibbly qualifiers, communication 'round here would probably grind to a halt . . . . .

I am totally guilty, beth, of jumpin' his stuff out of annoyance at how he was unduly jumpin' Des' stuff, in my opinion . . . . . *pries some ecru-colored armor off, puts hands up, tries on charming-innocent smile*

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 1:20:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...Um, chastising Des for her us & then falling back into asserting a we at the end . . . . . Thanks for the laugh, I'm so persuaded by the rigorous display of logical argumentation . . . . .

not to speak for SimplyIsaac, but this slave took him to mean the "we" as in Des and himself...and took the "us" that Des was referring to as herself AND everyone else other than him.
then again, it could just be because this slave has noticed the same thing he did...she does tend to "speak for the group" from time to time.

Mercnbeth is correct. Context of usage, and reading comprehension, is a tad important.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 1:31:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Eh, but everybody does that big overgeneralization thing . . . . . lol . . . . If we were all to be jumping all of us over the lack of quibbly qualifiers, communication 'round here would probably grind to a halt . . . . .

Once again, who is this "everybody?" Speak for yourself, please. I don't wear your arm patch (it would be too big anyway). I will (and do) express myself as I wish... and for the record, its the LACK of specificity and the abundance of "overgeneralizing" that makes communication close to useless here from what i can tell.

if you paid more attention to detail, yeah, the conversations might go a bit slower, and they'd be more work, but they'd probably be more productive.

< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 10/7/2009 1:37:48 PM >

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:14:44 PM

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Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Excessively serious, much?

It's tough to convey all the usual nuances of fleshly conversation thru text-only interfaces, but the 'lol' is sometimes, by some people, recognized as a signifier of [sense of humor on] . . . . . . .

& then there's those who get their buttons all plugged into the 'upset' setting at any provocation, my inner sadist likes watching all that sputtering & indignation & carryin' on & wailin' & sack-clothe-&-ashes & so on & so forth . . . . Have at all the confrontational arguments you want, & I'll just keep both chuckling away & participating in rich, nuanced conversations . . . . .

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:25:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

& then there's those who get their buttons all plugged into the 'upset' setting at any provocation,

Not at all unlike you running to "jumpin' my stuff" because I be dissin' Des, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

my inner sadist likes watching all that...

Who is to say I'm not amused watching you recycle that line for a second time in this thread?

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:28:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ownednoperated

"If you are a Master and you want to kiss your slave's foot or bury your nose up her ass, fine, but I'll stay on my island in the belief that those acts are ultimately submissive in the base language of the human animal. Proceed at your own risk. "

True a master could be used as a toilet slave by his submissive or give her a long, sensual backrub, or kiss her feet, but who is really the one being served by these submissive acts of foot kissing, back rubs?

"We can speak in denotative and say kissing a foot is kissing a foot, and sucking a toe is sucking a toe, and that's that. But seldom do humans live in such a sterile, connotatively meaningless vacuum. The reality is, the biomechanics involved in bringing one's head, the highest part on the body, to another's foot, the lowest part on the body, is a near universal act of submission, or at least respect."

Kissing a foot is a sign display of Respect and submission.

I'm on board with this thinking that kissing a foot is a submissive act which is meant to SHOW A SIGN OF RESPECT. What's a dom doing bowing and kissing feet? Might as well be a sub then.

There should be mutual respect and love for each other on both sides of the D/s relationship but to take those feeling the extra step by, in essence, bowing to the sub and performing an act that is universally seen as one of submission is not being a dom. If you have a desire to worship feet and suck on toes than so be it but let's call it what it is.

(in reply to Ownednoperated)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:38:39 PM

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You just look like an ass when you jump on someone just to be jumping on them because you don't like the way they call your friend out. He meant We're to mean them both, unlike her's where she tries to separate herself and the rest of everyone from him.

(in reply to DemonKia)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 2:55:17 PM

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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lol

Yep, I'm the only ass 'round these parts . . . . .

Er, well, I tend to think that's more I'm the only up-front ass, but whatever . . . . . . & you're right, it's so awful to cop to one's sins . . . . . . How dare I admit I'm less-than-perfect, I should just get with the mass movement of righteously-justified perfected facades . . . . .

Anyone wanna actually talk about doms who like to lick a nice toe? I think that was the ostensible point hereabouts . . . . .

Or, we can just fence about some more with witticisms & whatevers . . . . .

(in reply to Ownednoperated)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 3:09:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissylover22

Are you going to bow to your sub too, when you're done kissing the lowest part of her body?

I bow after every martial arts session, including the ones with her. It is a part of showing respect for the tradition I have chosen to be part of. It is a part of showing respect for those that have gone before me, those who have seen fit to pass it on, and those who bought its lessons at a real cost in lives. Damn right I bow. And the day I find that I can no longer respect my companion, is really pretty much the day she has no part in my life anymore. It may be incomprehensible to you. Nevertheless, it's important to me to be able to express respect for something other than myself, without reservation or artifice.

You can pontificate on the dogma of domhood as much as you like. I hope it brings you much happiness. I doubt it will bring you much of anything else. The community has a bit of a history when it comes to the pope of rope in his various incarnations, and little of it good. Learning some humility is probably too much to ask for, but one can hope. And I'm inclined to politely ask you to go engage in autorectal erotica in the meantime.

I don't need the trappings and window dressing to be me.

And I sure as hell don't need an upstart sissyboy to keep me on the straight and narrow.

Health,
al-Aswad.

Aswad, sometimes you just ROCK!!

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to Aswad)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 3:16:52 PM

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From: Apple County NY
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Isaac, go read leadership's thread, especially the comments from slaves who said they had to walk when it was made clear that they didn't matter to their owners, that in fact he would care more about his car getting keyed then her getting hurt and you will see that female full time slaves in a full relationship require respect and caring.

Part time relationships where you get your needs for love and respect from your primary partner, frineds and family are different. In those it can easily be a nonrespect relationship. But long term, meaning twenty or more years, a person cannot be happy or healthy being totally dehumanized.

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Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 3:30:27 PM

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From: in servitude
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Blimey had no idea my post would start all of that fighting lol!!

Just to let you all know, i have been talking to the dom in the original question and think i have come up with a solution. It means that he doesn't have to go to femdom clubs anymore to indulge in what is essentially foot worship and he can feel more domly about what he does, which is ultimately what he wants. He is not an experienced dom, which is why i think he came to me, his munch host for advice even though i am slave.

So, you can get back to your arguing if you want lol! Just to give my opinion though, and it is just my opinion..... if a dom wanted to do to my feet something similar to what i have seen happens to Dommes in a club, i would find that very uncomfortable, not just for me, but for him too. i had my feet worshipped at a club Wwe go to (granted it was by a male sub and i was tipsy) and i instantly turned switch much to the delight of my Sir lol! If it was my Master wanting to do stuff to my feet, then He has the distinct right to do as He wishes and i would be very aware of the fact, therefore no issues. if He was on His knees infront of me however, licking my feet, i would very much question Oour dynamic...

hugs

gabrielle x

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"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

RE: Foot worshipping Dom - 10/7/2009 4:10:24 PM

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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Part time relationships where you get your needs for love and respect from your primary partner, frineds and family are different. In those it can easily be a nonrespect relationship. But long term, meaning twenty or more years, a person cannot be happy or healthy being totally dehumanized.

Are you talking about ideals of marriage? As for slavery, it can last any period of time. Twenty months or twenty years.

"a person cannot be happy or healthy being totally dehumanized."

Again, a broad statement that will apply to many, but not all.

In the thread you mentioned, I noticed the subject of "non-wavering" on the dominant side coming up a lot, too. Anyway, I don't know Leadership, his situation, or the individuals who have chosen to chime in there, but I can say with certainty they don't represent all, male or female.

< Message edited by SimplyIsaac -- 10/7/2009 4:53:12 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

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