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ORIGINAL: porcelaine


Let me guess, you have a different opinion. *chuckles*

For what it's worth there are a lot of men that talk about this and that's all it is. I think some women are skeptical because it is a ploy some use to entice before the bait and switch occurs. In my opinion real gentleman reveal themselves under less than pleasant circumstances, when angered, frustrated, etc.

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Not just unpleasant circumstances either. I have found that the way someone treats waiters and other servers, people that they really don't know or with whom they don't have a relationship to be very, very telling of their general character. I am not impressed at all with talk or someone who continually touts themselves as a gentleman when their actions have already proven to me they are no such thing. Talk has almost always been quite cheap and easy to do so when I am out and about with Himself and he treats our waitress, cab driver or bellboy with respect and courtsey, that's what impresses me. I am proud to be in his company because while he would never, ever tout himself a gentleman or even consider himself refined .. he, by his action, proves to me that he is miles above *men* who talk the talk but fail, miserably, to walk the walk. He doesn't talk about it.. he just does it.

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ORIGINAL: Zevar



gallantry, courtliness, loyalty, valor, courage, bravery, magnanimity, nobility, courtesy, courteousness, politeness, attentiveness, gentility, good manners, civility, kindness and consideration.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Is there a way of 'bringing out' the chivalry in a man?   That's an interesting idea. 

Let me guess, you have a different opinion. *chuckles*

For what it's worth there are a lot of men that talk about this and that's all it is. I think some women are skeptical because it is a ploy some use to entice before the bait and switch occurs. In my opinion real gentleman reveal themselves under less than pleasant circumstances, when angered, frustrated, etc.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Is there a way of 'bringing out' the chivalry in a man?   That's an interesting idea. 

And it does cut both ways.  There are things that most women I've met can do better than I can. (No, I'm not going to present a list here.  I'm not that stupid.  ) When they do such things for me, or even for others, I think of it as 'ladylike' and it has had the effect on me, often, of thinking, 'right, she's a lady, she deserves the gentleman from me'.  

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Not just unpleasant circumstances either. I have found that the way someone treats waiters and other servers, people that they really don't know or with whom they don't have a relationship to be very, very telling of their general character. I am not impressed at all with talk or someone who continually touts themselves as a gentleman when their actions have already proven to me they are no such thing. Talk has almost always been quite cheap and easy to do so when I am out and about with Himself and he treats our waitress, cab driver or bellboy with respect and courtsey, that's what impresses me. I am proud to be in his company because while he would never, ever tout himself a gentleman or even consider himself refined .. he, by his action, proves to me that he is miles above *men* who talk the talk but fail, miserably, to walk the walk. He doesn't talk about it.. he just does it.

Bingo! I've had some 'self described' gentleman behave in a manner that was pretty reprehensible. I'm leery of men that have to continually reiterate that they're this or that. I often wonder who he's trying to convince - me or himself. I concur with your sentiments and find men that are gentleman rarely say it, they simply live it instead.

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: KurtAllen

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before the bait and switch occurs

Would eleminating the bait and switch be like seeing a woman stepping out of the shower without makeup before spending endless hours needlessly.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Indeed, chivalry went so far as to espouse the droit de seigneur, the right of a ruling lord to spend the first night with any newly married girl on his lands, the better to tie everyone to him with ties of blood. Hardly what you would call chivalrous, raping a girl on her wedding night, or is it?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The second is that that early sense of chivalry has been romanticised to the degree almost of fantasy and never more so than its most well-known archetype, the Arthurian Legends. (If Arthur did exist it's likely he was one of the less-than-refined chieftans of the day - a far, far cry from the way he was later painted).

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If chivalry means manners - particularly those regarding men's behaviour towards women - then a chivalrous man helps a woman with those things which make her life more difficult than they are for him.  I think many of those things are pretty obvious (heavy lifting, protection, perhaps); some a quite a bit less so.  I've never had grief from offering help in such things, either - not even from the most fiery and radical of the female friends I've had over the years.

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And it does cut both ways.  There are things that most women I've met can do better than I can. (No, I'm not going to present a list here.  I'm not that stupid.  ) When they do such things for me, or even for others, I think of it as 'ladylike' and it has had the effect on me, often, of thinking, 'right, she's a lady, she deserves the gentleman from me'.  

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Chivalry does seem to be unheard of and not widely practiced among men in the society of Western Culture.

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

If chivalry means manners - particularly those regarding men's behaviour towards women - then a chivalrous man helps a woman with those things which make her life more difficult than they are for him.  I think many of those things are pretty obvious (heavy lifting, protection, perhaps); some a quite a bit less so.  I've never had grief from offering help in such things, either - not even from the most fiery and radical of the female friends I've had over the years.

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I believe the definition presented isn't chivalry at all. I think others have chimed in and pointed this out.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The second is that that early sense of chivalry has been romanticised to the degree almost of fantasy and never more so than its most well-known archetype, the Arthurian Legends. (If Arthur did exist it's likely he was one of the less-than-refined chieftans of the day - a far, far cry from the way he was later painted).

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If chivalry means manners - particularly those regarding men's behaviour towards women - then a chivalrous man helps a woman with those things which make her life more difficult than they are for him.  I think many of those things are pretty obvious (heavy lifting, protection, perhaps); some a quite a bit less so.  I've never had grief from offering help in such things, either - not even from the most fiery and radical of the female friends I've had over the years.

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And it does cut both ways.  There are things that most women I've met can do better than I can. (No, I'm not going to present a list here.  I'm not that stupid.  ) When they do such things for me, or even for others, I think of it as 'ladylike' and it has had the effect on me, often, of thinking, 'right, she's a lady, she deserves the gentleman from me'.  

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ORIGINAL: Marini

Personally, I learned a long time ago to avoid screennames and people
that insist on telling me they are: kind, sweet, handsome, smart, wonderful, etc.

If you have to keep saying it, something is wrong.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Just a quickie on that: I don't think we need go by the original definition.  It's useful to look at a word's etymology for all kinds of reasons (as people have, here), but a definition isn't necessarily 'more correct' just because it's older.  After all, some say that the word 'fuck' once meant 'to put a seed in a hole'.  Interesting if true - but it doesn't mean that now. 

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I believe the definition presented isn't chivalry at all. I think others have chimed in and pointed this out.

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Just a quickie on that: I don't think we need go by the original definition.  It's useful to look at a word's etymology for all kinds of reasons (as people have, here), but a definition isn't necessarily 'more correct' just because it's older.  After all, some say that the word 'fuck' once meant 'to put a seed in a hole'.  Interesting if true - but it doesn't mean that now. 

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After all, some say that the word 'fuck' once meant 'to put a seed in a hole'

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

While that may be true the current associations are typically attributed to a gentleman versus chivalry in my opinion. But since you brought it up, perhaps you can enlighten me regarding the nuances of chivalry in its original form. For curiosity's sake of course. No quickie necessary. Take your time.

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ORIGINAL: aldompdx

In my experience, the practice of chivalry is not a matter of eastern or western cultures, but of truly civilized cultures which practice mutual respect. I lived in an eastern culture for several years, and despite the cultural ideals, the actual practice tended to be misogynistic.

I think that "old school" BDSMers were more aligned with chivalry. Then the internet happened.

Chivalry arises from self respect and self discipline. It is "unappealing" to narcissists, because it requires empathy and sharing.