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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 6:41:31 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

i notice that you haven't answered my fucking question yet have you?

let me repeat it for you: what exactly do you mean when you think "cor blimey, she's a bitch!"?


I haven't answered it because I can't relate to it. It's not a line that would enter my head. You'll need to rephrase the question. What are you trying to ask?



She is asking for the definition of 'bitch' that you use in your own internal dialog.

You seem not to understand that feminist metaethics has spent much time, paper, and effort in examining and analyzing language, sentence structure, words, and semantic tricks.

Reclamation of language has been one of the goals.

So, in order for any female to answer the bitch question, a discussion of the definition must take place so that we all know what is being referred to. The traditional definition that has been assigned by the patriarchy or a transgressive/reclamation definition brought about by feminist metaethics.

It is not protesting.

They are attempts to be clear.


< Message edited by Aylee -- 8/21/2011 6:57:41 PM >

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 6:46:49 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

what does the word bitch mean to you? what do you mean by it when you use it?

and don't give me any of that "i never use it" line of crap either.


Nup. It doesn't work for me. As VC said earlier, it either means something quite impressive, or something bad, or - in general - nothing coherent at all. (To paraphrase her.)

But, for what it's worth, and in my view: yes, you really do swear too much for me to believe that you're the real-deal-bitchy, Hannah.

Sorry, but there it is . . . .


So what you are saying is that you like that she does not reject her femininity, but you dislike that she does reject the social limitations of her femininity.

A female that would reject the social limitations of her femininity does not TO YOU equate with Women who are strong, independent, self-centered, powerful, assertive, and above all, subjects of their own lives.

That really says a lot more about you than it does her.

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:12:03 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

As VC said earlier, it either means something quite impressive, or something bad, or - in general - nothing coherent at all.
i asked what it meant to you, not her. but fuck it, ok vc still thinks for you, fine.

so it doesn't mean a fucking thing to you. well in that case how the fuck can you say somebody is or isn't a bitch, or is too bitchy or not bitchy enough? your just blowing smoke out your ass, pretty much what i expected from you these days, you've gone from an interesting guy to a passive-aggressive little bitch.

you should stop hanging around with david and kevin, they're rubbing off on you.



OK, in all seriousness, finally:

When you say 'passive-aggressive little bitch' there, you mean something bad by 'bitch', presumably? You see, it's kind of confusing, Hannah. And do try to take on board what I said earlier - the more you swear at me, the more you insult me, the more I can't believe you. You kill your authenticity in my eyes, however it appears to others. Seriously, please grasp that.

In the past, I've only occasionally heard of any positive meaning for 'bitch'. Clearly, many women posting here go with that meaning. Fine - I can grasp it, and will go with it myself, as I have been, in later posts here.

Most males I've come across have an awareness of assertiveness, versus aggression, to a degree of nuance that most women I've known wouldn't see. Honestly, only the small ones, the ones without much of either, will talk much about it. I've taught some very, very tough women in my career - as a lecturer in political science, and for a couple of years to postgrads in gender studies. But these weren't shouters or gobshites. They really were tough, tough women. They gave *exactly the same* vibe when talking to me as the vibe that tough men have given me. No difference - none whatsoever. They weren't psychos - or if they were, they had that psycho quality under control. Amongst humans, I really don't believe that the crucial things about toughness are different between the sexes.

There's a point, I think, where people just transcend what they've learned, and almost forget about it. *This* is what I mean. Now - again, being serious - it'd be a surprise to me if women, as a whole, had reached that same point re 'toughness' (shorthand for the positive of aggressive and assertiveness) as men. They've not had the history behind it. You can take that from me, or you can take it from any beginner's book on feminism - your choice.






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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:19:38 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

So what you are saying is that you like that she does not reject her femininity, but you dislike that she does reject the social limitations of her femininity.

A female that would reject the social limitations of her femininity does not TO YOU equate with Women who are strong, independent, self-centered, powerful, assertive, and above all, subjects of their own lives.

That really says a lot more about you than it does her.


No, that's not what I've said. The opposite. I think rejecting the stifling nature of what's considered to be feminine goes an awful lot further than many people, including even women who actually do want to do that, realise.


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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:27:32 PM   
sunshinemiss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

If someone chooses to call themselves such, who am I to convince them otherwise?




So poise, darling, you don't think I'm a bitch, but it's ok if I define it in a particular way and call myself that?  YAY!

For me, I have chosen to take the positive attributes of it, and say, YES, I am those things.  yes, I am.  If you choose to use a word that is supposed to be ugly and apply it to me, I"m cool with that.  I love the powerful part of me.  I am absolutely kind and loving and giving and full of squishy goodness.  But you mess with me and mine, I'm like momma bear - I will rip you to shreds.  To me that is what being a bitch is - embracing your power and not apologizing for it. 

best,
sunshine


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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:30:35 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Status: offline 		That Aylee is one smart gal!  (and hot as can be too - I've met her!)  Go on... be jealous, you bitches!  YAY!

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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:31:07 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss
To me that is what being a bitch is - embracing your power and not apologizing for it. 


Though later you might apologise to yourself for once not having taken enough of it. ;-)


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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:37:06 PM   
sunshinemiss


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Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		That's part of the process, Peon, of becoming an adult, of becoming our true selves -  and I think women are discouraged more than men (gs/ymmv) when it comes to this. 

Btw, what are you doing up at this time of night?


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RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:37:18 PM   
poise


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

quote:

ORIGINAL: poise

If someone chooses to call themselves such, who am I to convince them otherwise?




So poise, darling, you don't think I'm a bitch, but it's ok if I define it in a particular way and call myself that?  YAY!

For me, I have chosen to take the positive attributes of it, and say, YES, I am those things.  yes, I am.  If you choose to use a word that is supposed to be ugly and apply it to me, I"m cool with that.  I love the powerful part of me.  I am absolutely kind and loving and giving and full of squishy goodness.  But you mess with me and mine, I'm like momma bear - I will rip you to shreds.  To me that is what being a bitch is - embracing your power and not apologizing for it. 

best,
sunshine


Dearest Sunshine,

I do not recall offering an opinion of whether you were a bitch or not.
My reply, which you have quoted above, was in answer to the third question
in LadyAngelikas' OP.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
  • If no, how does it feel when dominant women either refer to themselves
    or are referred to as Bitches?


    • If someone prefers to call themselves a bitch, or the abominable snowman, it would
    not be a position of mine to declare otherwise.

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:42:05 PM   
    PeonForHer


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

    That's part of the process, Peon, of becoming an adult, of becoming our true selves -  and I think women are discouraged more than men (gs/ymmv) when it comes to this. 

    Btw, what are you doing up at this time of night?



    It is indeed. I wince at things I did and thought in my teens a decade later, and I still do that. I wouldn't argue that women get discouraged more than men.

    I'm up this late because I can't frigging sleep. *Again!*

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:50:16 PM   
    PeonForHer


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    quote:

    ok, now you take this on board. whether you believe me or not, my "authenticity" in your eyes means as much to me as used fucking tampon. haul it out and chuck it. i insult you when i think you're being an idiot because i like insulting people when they are stupid. can you fucking grasp that.


    Right. And you know that any time you do that to me, I just going to blink, and try to stop myself laughing? And you'd only ever angrier as a result.


    quote:

    now as far as i can gather from the crap in the rest of your post, you're saying bitch means behaving like a man in terms of toughness. well the day a man goes through 14 hours of labour in an alleyway, then pushes out a 10 lb parasite which rips you open, and does it without any anesthetic and doesn't slit his wrists, then come tell me about how fucking tough you penis dangling little wimps are. until then, fuck off, you don't know the meaning of tough.

    <and no, it wasn't me>


    No, I thought I'd said - in fact very clearly - that toughness is mainly gender-neutral. I've known a few women, such as my sisters, get a hell of sight tougher as a result of the experience of pregnancy and childbirth.



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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 7:58:39 PM   
    sunshinemiss


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    quote:


    If someone prefers to call themselves a bitch, or the abominable snowman, it would
    not be a position of mine to declare otherwise.


    In that case, I want to be called the Queen of Diamonds at the Meeting of my Thighs. 

    Do get right on that, love.


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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:02:41 PM   
    LadyHibiscus


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    Status: offline     		I am not a bitch. Kthxbai.

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:06:53 PM   
    HannahLynHeather


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    Status: offline     		why hello there queen of diamonds at the meeting of my thighs.

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    i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:09:29 PM   
    sunshinemiss


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

    I am not a bitch. Kthxbai.


    Fail...




    Attachment (1)

    < Message edited by sunshinemiss -- 8/21/2011 8:10:51 PM >

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:11:00 PM   
    LadyHibiscus


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    Status: offline     		My HHH is being mean to me! I am appalled! Or I would be if I wasn't laughing.

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:11:37 PM   
    sunshinemiss


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    Status: offline     		(sorry - didn't mean for that to be so big!) 

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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:13:05 PM   
    sunshinemiss


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

    why hello there queen of diamonds at the meeting of my thighs.


    touche!


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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 8:14:25 PM   
    sunshinemiss


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    To Hib:  I've learned from the best...

    I'm not sorry


    MEAN GIRL


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    RE: Do you consider yourself a Bitch? - 8/21/2011 10:40:43 PM   
    MistressDarkArt


    Posts: 5178
    Status: offline     		FR
    Do I consider myself a bitch...naaaaaahhh. But cross this lamb and she becomes a lion. Just ask the last guy who grabbed my ass without an invitation. I dropped him in my living room and he went out in an ambulance. Creepy fucker, and apparently not into ball busting or ax kicks ;-)

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