RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped?

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 2:02:31 PM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The heart wants what it wants. And that not infrequently extends to such things as past experiences, desires, weight, height, hair length and color. Or is someone who doesn't find a partner with short hair attractive also bigoted? Where do you draw the line between personal preference and bigotry?

That's a very intriguing question. I guess the more obvious answer is that with personal preference, there's no suggestion that a person who doesn't fit for you is somehow 'less than' a person who does. But with bigotry, of course, the opposite is true.

On the other hand: supposing I meet two women, one of whom has the sort of nose-shape I like, etc, etc - the other of whom doesn't. I can say that I'll think of them both as equal but, if only because I'll be zeroing in on the former as a partner, I know I won't be treating them, in that respect at least, as equal.

That phrase 'the heart wants what it wants' sounds better than the 'reptile' metaphor employed by the OP. It does hint at less of a desire to want to change than I'd expect from someone who uses his metaphor. That has to make some difference.

Just a couple of not-yet-coherent thoughts.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 2:19:13 PM

Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

Now THAT is an excellent post Heather!

I agree.

_____________________________

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 2:46:41 PM

Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

quote:

I would reject a man as a partner if he were bi.

Sorry, but that makes about as much sense as saying you would reject a man as a partner if he liked cheesecake.

Now see I really LOVE cheesecake, and I would totally be disappointed in someone if they also didn't like cheesecake....

Another bonus to bi males.. we could check out guys together!

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 3:26:13 PM

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

I'm glad you don't try to speak for anybody else, because it IS homophobia.

Wrong. It's hard wiring as to whom I find sexually attractive and whom I do not.

You don't understand what homophobia is. It's the old "some of my best friends are Jews" argument.

Being a Jew, that holds no water here.

Sorry, but that makes about as much sense as saying you would reject a man as a partner if he liked cheesecake.

No, but I would reject him for being a vegetarian.

I'm not into relationships with a sell by date. When people need relationships with partners of both sexes, obviously I cannot fulfill that for them. So since I'm monogamous, the relationship would eventually end politely when they needed something I cannot provide.

Being poly, that's not a problem for you. It is for us monogamous types who seek relationships that will be "till death do you part". Being extremely young, you obviously cannot fathom refusing something that you know in ten years will be a problem. Because at your age, odds are in ten years you'll be on three or four main relationships since now.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 3:40:16 PM

zephyroftheNorth

Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline

Oh come on Celeste, honestly. You must know damn well that she was giving an analogy when she wrote "It's the old "some of my best friends are Jews" argument."

Please, tell me you don't know that being bi means someone capable of loving either the opposite sex or the same sex, not both at once. It has nothing to do with being monogamous or poly, just who they are CAPABLE of loving. Oh and her age has nothing to do with it and I suspect you know that too.

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 3:49:09 PM

Posts: 286
Joined: 4/8/2010
Status: offline

DesFIP, that reply was pretty nonsensical. What in the world does being poly or monogamous have to do with it? When people need relationships with partners of both sexes? What in hell are you talking about? Bi people are quite capable of having a relationship with one sex at a time. I know plenty who do.

< Message edited by CeriseNin -- 9/16/2011 3:50:28 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 4:43:05 PM

MissImmortalPain

Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I didn't read what everyone else had to say about this. For the most part because the question set off a few in my own mind. One being that if someone were to actually form this opinion wouldn't it be the most amazing form of hypocrisy? One reason being that I have found over the years that many folks assume that "dominant" women often come to be the way they are because at some point in their formitive youth they have been the victims of violance themselves. (Not saying it is true but many people seem to believe so) That women who might do harm are only doing so because they are angry at men, their parents, the world in general, etc. It really does amaze me that this kind of gender judging could happen. The second thought that came to mind was of course the other side. Would you say someone that goes out of their way to survive a horrid set of cirmustances isn't in some way dominant? Those people that have been unlucky, or luck depending on how you look at it, enough to be someplace like prison know that there are times when one does what one has to just to survive. And that if they do infact live it makes them stronger.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 5:14:27 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

quote:

When people need relationships with partners of both sexes, obviously I cannot fulfill that for them.

Get your head out of your ass. Being bisexual does not mean a person NEEDS or even wants relationships with both sexes. It means they can be sexually attracted to members of both sexes. I'm bisexual, yet I haven't ever had a relationship with a male. I've had sex with them, but never felt the desire for a relationship with one.

Bisexuality also has nothing to whatsoever to do with monogamy either, I have been monogamous all my life and never once went outside the relationship for anything...some of us are able to be attracted to somebody without it being a need.

You are so profoundly misguided on so many subjects that it astounds me sometimes.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 5:18:45 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

quote:

I found myself wondering how women--submissive women in particular--perceive men who are turned out in prison. Maybe there can be no definitive answer to this question, but I suspect it's at least safe to say that virtually no woman would ever be more attracted to a man for learning that he was, or had once been, another man's bitch. And it seems reasonable to assume that a woman who actively craves dominance in a man would, if anything, be more inclined than women in general to feel an instinctive revulsion for a man who had been forced into submission himself--and not just submission, but submission of the most degrading kind.

That is among the stupidest premises I have come across here on CM. I would be embarrassed to even think such a thing.

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 7:35:15 PM

Posts: 781
Joined: 4/13/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist
Is my intuition right? When the men who've been the victim of this atrocity conceal their shame from you, are they right to do so? Would any part of you think less of them if you knew? I do care what your rational, reasonable, moral mind has to say, but I'm more interested in the reptile beneath.

Why would I think any less of a man who had been raped? Rape is non-consensual, against his will just the same as if it had been a woman who was raped. I would not think any less of him as a man or as a person in general. I would not think him any less Dominant either. As a matter of fact, I have been with a Dominant who had been raped in the past.....not from being in prison, but he was still raped. If anything, it has made him more understanding than someone that had never happened to.

~Hisprettybaby~

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 8:40:33 PM

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

If you look hard enough ( which you choose to do) you can find bigotry in everything. Saying, "some of my best friends are jews..." but not wanting an intimate relationship with one isn't bigoted, it's choosing a mate based on core values that come from religious beliefs.

Think of it this way.....would you consider a heterosexual who would have homosexual friends but not intimate homosexual relationships bigoted? Sexuality, for many, is also a core value.

The same could be said for just about anything. If Hannah were a 400 pound, slovenly woman, would you have wanted to be with her? How about if she desired to have a sex change, or better yet, everything about her was the same, but she was born a man? Would you change that major part of who you are (a lesbian) to have an intimate relationship withh her? Would you consider yourself a bigot if you didn't?

The same thing goes for attraction to a bisexual. Your saying that not wanting a relationship with one makes a person a homophobic bigot shows ignorance, whic is the whole basis of bigotry.

People base who they want to be with on any myriad of personal criteria. Just because I would not desire an intimate relaionship with a midget is not an indication I am bigoted against them. Saying I couldn't have friends who were midgets, homosexual, another religion or race or ethnicity would be bigoted. By your own terms you are bigoted against straight people because you don't want a (intimate) relationship them.

Yes, your age is a factor here. You are at that age in life where you want to make your mark, you want to fight for rights you may not have as a lesbian. That is all good, but in the real world outside of CM where peopple think you are the cutest, smartest girl group on the western hemisphere, your arguments don't hold up and show a lack of understanding based on youth, lack of experience and lack of education. Chances are twenty years from now, if you look back on your thoughts and words you will see this because those three things wll have changed.

As to the OP, he was specific about the fact that the hypothetical dominant were "turned out" in prison. Less than half a dozen people took that into consideration. Was that lack of reading comprehension, intentional oversight or people not concerned about that part of the question?

For me, a victim is a victim and it doesn't make me think less of them. However, given the rest of the OP's scenario, it is irrelevant to me, because I will not get into an intimate relationship with an ex-con, regardless of the offense. Unless it was a legitimate wrongful conviction (translation: not overturned on technicality).ause I would not desire an intimate relaionship with a midget is not an indication I am bigoted against them. Saying I couldn't have friends who were midgets, homosexual, another religion or race or ethnicity would be bigoted. By your own terms you are bigoted against straight people because you don't want a (intimate) relationship them.

Yes, your age is a factor here. You are at that age in life where you want to make your mark, you want to fight for rights you may not have as a lesbian. That is all good, but in the real world outside of CM where peopple think you are the cutest, smartest girl group on the western hemisphere, your arguments don't hold up and show a lack of understanding based on youth, lack of experience and lack of education. Chances are twenty years from now, if you look back on your thoughts and words you will see this because those three things wll have changed.

As to the OP, he was specific about the fact that the hypothetical dominant were "turned out" in prison. Less than half a dozen people took that into consideration. Was that lack of reading comprehension, intentional oversight or people not concerned about that part of the question?

For me, a victim is a victim and it doesn't make me think less of them. However, given the rest of the OP's scenario, it is irrelevant to me, because I will not get into an intimate relationship with an ex-con, regardless of the offense. Unless it was a legitimate wrongful conviction (translation: not overturned on technicality).

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/16/2011 9:46:36 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline

quote:

If you look hard enough ( which you choose to do) you can find bigotry in everything. Saying, "some of my best friends are jews..." but not wanting an intimate relationship with one isn't bigoted, it's choosing a mate based on core values that come from religious beliefs.

What in God's name are you talking about? It sure isn't anything I was talking about.

quote:

Think of it this way.....would you consider a heterosexual who would have homosexual friends but not intimate homosexual relationships bigoted? Sexuality, for many, is also a core value.

No I would consider them heterosexual, that is the meaning of the word. If you have an intimate homosexual relationship you are a homosexual or a bisexual, not a heterosexual. Sexuality isn't a "value", it isn't something you can chose to put on and take off. It isn't something you are convinced of. It's something you are, like being black or white.

quote:

Would you change that major part of who you are (a lesbian) to have an intimate relationship withh her? Would you consider yourself a bigot if you didn't?

That's got to be just about the dumbest thing I have ever been asked. Being a lesbian isn't something I can change even if I wanted to, anymore than I could become a cute Asian chick. So no one can't be considered a bigot for not changing something that can't be changed.

quote:

The same thing goes for attraction to a bisexual. Your saying that not wanting a relationship with one makes a person a homophobic bigot shows ignorance, whic is the whole basis of bigotry.

Unfortunately you are the one displaying ignorance.

quote:

By your own terms you are bigoted against straight people because you don't want a (intimate) relationship them.

No. I'm afraid you are completely and utterly wrong. You are misunderstanding the meaning of bisexual, heterosexual, and homosexual. I am attracted to many straight women, I have been all my life and would be happy to be in an intimate relationship with them. This is because I am a homosexual, I am sexually attracted to members of the same sex as myself.

I have not had an intimate relationship with a straight woman because they aren't interested. They are heterosexual, they are sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex.

I am in an intimate relationship with a bisexual. This is possible because she is attracted to me, she is a bisexual and is sexually attracted by members of both sexes. There is a gay guy at her work she really has the hots for, but since he is gay, that isn't going anywhere either, much like me and my straight girls.

That is where the homophobia comes into it, she isn't rejecting the person because she isn't physically attracted to that gender, her lack of attraction has nothing to do with his gender, it has to do only with his sexual orientation. It has to do with a mental bias she has. If he stayed in the closet and hid his bisexuality, she would be perfectly happy to love and adore him, but as soon as he admits that he is sexually attracted to some men, he is no longer as good and decent a man as he was before he told her, he is suddenly not good enough for her. Not for anything he did, but just for an ability to have certain erotic and or romantic feelings.

As well, she somehow equates being able to be sexually attracted to men as well as women with being required to have sex with men. This is no different than the old perception that gays were somehow unable to have stable long term relationships. A bisexual man in a monogamous relationship with a woman has no more need to have sex or a relationship with a man he finds attractive than a heterosexual man in similar relationship has a need to have sex or a relationship with another woman he is attracted to. This is where the bigotry enters into the equation. She deems a bisexual less able to be happy and faithful in a monogamous relationship simply on the basis of his ability to find men attractive. She is assigning a lesser ability to behave in a moral and ethical manner to people based on their sexual orientation. If that isn't bigotry, then I don't know what is.

What she said is really in no way different than saying she would never consider having a relationship with a black man.

quote:

Yes, your age is a factor here. You are at that age in life where you want to make your mark, you want to fight for rights you may not have as a lesbian.

I am sure you are right, due to my age, I have grown up in a time when we recognize that sexual orientation has nothing to do with a person's worth or their morals or ethics.

And just as an aside, I really am not interested in fighting for anything as a lesbian. I live in a country where I have every right that a straight person does. The gay rights movement has pretty much won the fight here. My sexual politics are focused on the poly aspect of my sexuality.

quote:

That is all good, but in the real world outside of CM where peopple think you are the cutest, smartest girl group on the western hemisphere,

Gee, bitter much?

Besides, people don't think that, they know it.

quote:

your arguments don't hold up and show a lack of understanding based on youth, lack of experience and lack of education.

Actually, as I have pointed out, it is your arguments that show a lack of understanding. I won't venture an opinion as to what it is based on, but I'm sure we all have our pet theories.

quote:

Chances are twenty years from now, if you look back on your thoughts and words you will see this because those three things wll have changed.

Oh I doubt I will change my opinion in this particular case, I am highly unlikely to become ignorant and less educated over the next 20 years.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 2:51:25 AM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

She is assigning a lesser ability to behave in a moral and ethical manner to people based on their sexual orientation. If that isn't bigotry, then I don't know what is.

What she said is really in no way different than saying she would never consider having a relationship with a black man.

That chain of reasoning looked fine to me till you ended with that example. I know white people who wouldn't consider relationships with black people - and vice versa - because they don't find them physically attractive. Me, I've never found Inuit women physically attractive, for instance.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 2:55:16 AM

Posts: 1343
Joined: 8/19/2011
Status: offline

I think the questions beneath your post concern
perceptions of masculinity and what could diminish a
man in a womans eyes? You would like to ask women
in general and submissive women in particular because
you think we have the harshest and most rigid view of
what a 'real man' is?
Can only tell you what I think, what I feel.
What makes a man worthy of admiration, respect,
trust and love have nothing to do with whether or
not he has ever willingly or unwillingly took it up the
ass or sucked a cock.

_____________________________

A thousand dreams within me softly burn.
Rimbaud

(in reply to NiceGuyNihilist)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 3:10:57 AM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Winterapple

I think the questions beneath your post concern
perceptions of masculinity and what could diminish a
man in a womans eyes? You would like to ask women
in general and submissive women in particular because
you think we have the harshest and most rigid view of
what a 'real man' is?

That's how I read the OP, too. I also read him as - quite carefully, in fact - distinguishing between a) what women *reasonably* deem to be 'unmanly' and b) what their more instinctual feelings - feelings that they might not actually like about themselves - say to them. (Or call them 'prejudices', if that suits.) But most people seem to be answering the question as though it were all about what they believed to be reasonable to like or dislike. In which case, the answers seem to me to be pretty easy and obvious.

Hmm. I do wish the OP would haul his arse back in here to enlighten us, though.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 9/17/2011 3:12:06 AM >

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Winterapple)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 3:19:34 AM

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

As do I.

I am still waiting for the OP to answer My questions.

So, suppose I should have reason to go out tomorrow evening. Perhaps I would need to go to the corner store and during that trip, I was grabbed, accosted, and violently attacked.

If that should happen to Me, are you people really saying that you would see Me as less?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 3:38:28 AM

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

As do I.

I am still waiting for the OP to answer My questions.

So, suppose I should have reason to go out tomorrow evening. Perhaps I would need to go to the corner store and during that trip, I was grabbed, accosted, and violently attacked.

If that should happen to Me, are you people really saying that you would see Me as less?

Already happened to one of my oldest female friends. I saw her as a rape survivor, not a rape victim. When she told me the story, a few years ago and a decade after the event, I felt myself putting her in the same category as climbers I know who've fallen but survived. No, I didn't see her as despoiled, or 'less' in any other way. Actually, the opposite, re that climber analogy. Crucially, I knew there was nothing inside me, deep down, that hinted at such condemnatory feelings in the face of what I thought was reasonable.

As for how she herself thought - God knows. A lot of horrible things, possibly including that of believing that men saw her as in some way 'dirtied' or 'lowered'. She may have seen herself that way, too.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 3:48:22 AM

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I am not sure that I should continue to participate on this thread.

Years back, I have known women who would be thought of as "less than". The people who support that idea sicken Me.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to PeonForHer)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 5:22:13 AM

Posts: 1128
Joined: 3/19/2005
Status: offline

Being gay or bisexual is not the same as being raped. Being submissive is not the same as being raped.

That this conversation has strayed to discussing whether female submissive's are attracted to bisexual men or whether submissives can submit to men who have been submissive, when the question is about men who have been the victims of rape, alludes to an underlying misconception that being raped indicates a predisposition on the part of the victim. This is very reminiscent of those who shun women who have been raped as immoral and unclean, in that supposes consent. Being raped is something that happens against your will. Look it up.

Gods forbid you were to get bonked on the head with a brick - does that mean you have a thing for bricks, or only for people who wield them? And does the fact that your skull's not impenetrable mean you're not a dominant?

Also, although these are not on point for this thread, since they did come up, not all dominants start off submissive - neither for better or for worse, individual experience varies - , and not being sexually attracted to someone due to their sexual orientation does not equal being phobic of or bigoted against that orientation.

I've got to stop agitating myself with inflammatory threads.

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd... - 9/17/2011 8:36:16 AM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline

quote:

I know white people who wouldn't consider relationships with black people - and vice versa - because they don't find them physically attractive. Me, I've never found Inuit women physically attractive, for instance.

There is an important distinction that needs to be made clear.

If you would reject a woman simply based on her being Inuit, then you are a bigot. On the other hand, if what you mean is that it's not that you would never consider an Inuit woman, it's just that you have yet to meet or see one you consider physically attractive, then you aren't a bigot. See the difference?

The flaw in LL's reasoning in her reply to me is the idea that having an unreasonable bias against a particular trait can be equated to a lack of a physical attraction. It is particularly egregious when, as in this case, the trait in question has no physical manifestation whatsoever.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Would you be less inclined to submit to a man who'd been raped?

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.706