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Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/27/2012 7:36:42 PM

darkchaos666

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what would you say the difference between dominant and sadist is.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/27/2012 7:37:33 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkchaos666

what would you say the difference between dominant and sadist is.

What would you say it is?

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/27/2012 8:38:13 PM

DarkSteven

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A Dominant is defined by the relationship he is in. He wants control in his relationship.

A sadist wants to inflict pain. He is defined solely by what he does in physical interactions (or emotional, if he's an emotional sadist).

It's possible to have a person who is neither, who is one but not the other, or who is both.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/27/2012 9:28:09 PM

FrankAr

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Greetings Steven,

What do you then class the person whom uses erotic pain ? Do you still class them as a sadist ?

Frank.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/27/2012 10:08:21 PM

littlewonder

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I personally call them sensationalists.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/28/2012 4:10:09 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr

Greetings Steven,

What do you then class the person whom uses erotic pain ? Do you still class them as a sadist ?

Frank.

Good point. A sadist wants to create the sensation of pain in others. An erotic sadist wants to create pain and arousal at the same time.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/28/2012 3:06:27 PM

DesFIP

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I'd still call that a sadist. After all, isn't that how you get someone to accept more pain, by mixing it with arousal so it isn't entirely unpleasant and undesirable?

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 7:53:23 AM

KateMid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

A Dominant is defined by the relationship he is in. He wants control in his relationship.

A sadist wants to inflict pain. He is defined solely by what he does in physical interactions (or emotional, if he's an emotional sadist).

It's possible to have a person who is neither, who is one but not the other, or who is both.

But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 8:06:16 AM

ChatteParfaitt

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There is a world of difference between a dominant and a sadist, in my never humble opinion. Many who call themselves "Master" are not dominants in the least, they are sadists who like some degree of control. I would say *most* sadists like some degree of control.

Now, in the real world, the term sadist has a very negative connotation. It conjures up visions of men and women in black leather with whips and chains going around hurting people w/p their consent.

The consent factor in the relationship is crucial, AND adds to the dominance factor.

I do think there is a great deal of overlap between the two. Most dominants being at least a bit sadistic, and most sadists wanting at least a bit of control.

Going a bit off topic here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: KateMid

But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

As I have pointed out more than once, many couples do not have a punishment dynamic. I do not.

Himself does not need to hurt me to enforce his dominance. He *literally* just has to look at me. Now, I consider him far more on the dominant (as opposed to sadist) point on the spectrum, which means for him, obedience is very important. If I went around flaunting him, he would not beat me, he'd break up with me. Not to be mean, but b/c it would mean we were not well suited.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 8:11:16 AM

LadyConstanze

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KateMid

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

A Dominant is defined by the relationship he is in. He wants control in his relationship.

A sadist wants to inflict pain. He is defined solely by what he does in physical interactions (or emotional, if he's an emotional sadist).

It's possible to have a person who is neither, who is one but not the other, or who is both.

But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

I disagree with that and I think I qualify as a sadist. Sadism is for my pleasure and not punishment, if I need to beat or punish somebody to have control, then I've failed as a dominant, then I'm just a bully. Punishment for transgressions would be ignoring the person or giving the person a task they don't like.

What we do is consensual, in case somebody engages in a power exchange with me they have to want it, I'm not going to fight with them every step of the way, it's a waste of my energy. You want to disobey rules, we're just not well suited.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 8:56:26 AM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I disagree with that and I think I qualify as a sadist. Sadism is for my pleasure and not punishment, if I need to beat or punish somebody to have control, then I've failed as a dominant, then I'm just a bully. Punishment for transgressions would be ignoring the person or giving the person a task they don't like.

What we do is consensual, in case somebody engages in a power exchange with me they have to want it, I'm not going to fight with them every step of the way, it's a waste of my energy. You want to disobey rules, we're just not well suited.

Very much this.

To be honest, my sadism has very little at all to do with my dominance and relationship dynamics.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 9:31:57 AM

Kana

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Dominants get off on control. Sadists get off on hurting folks.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 11:10:41 AM

Ullrmann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KateMid
But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

I am a dominant and a sadist. I enjoy exercising strict control and enjoy inflicting serious corporal punishments for transgressions. Many here refuse to engage in a punishment dynamic in their relationships, though I would say whether or not a dominant uses punishments is irrelevant to your comment.

My take is it doesn't matter what a dominant does or does not do for defining their level of "real" control. What determines their level of control is dependent on what they can do. If a dominant is unable to use corporal punishment to punish for transgressions, then they have no control in that specific area. It makes perfect sense for a dominant to not necessarily want to inflict painful punishments just because they can. Even with my sadistic tastes, I do not always incorporate pain in my punishments.

Different D/s relationships empower the D with different levels of control over different areas and there is no one-size-fits-all approach. In my marriage, I have extensive control over vast portions of my wife's existence, but not her complete existence. My control includes the authority to inflict as painful a punishment as I desire for as minor an offense as I wish. That doesn't mean I will automatically inflict some brutally painful punishment on her because she forgot to make my morning coffee, but it does mean I can and I have the real control of making that choice where my wife does not.

In essence, I would say you are right that if a dominant is unable to impose any kind of consequences for transgressions, then there is no real control. However, inflicting pain is just one form of consequence that might be imposed by an in control dominant.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 11:36:23 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KateMid
But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

You may want to go back to the other thread where people tried to explain the concept of punishment to you. I don't think some of these concepts are really sinking in.

I'm a Dominant woman. I do not need to inflict physical pain in order to punish or to maintain control. If I *needed* to use pain to control someone, I might as well hang it up.

I also happen to be a sadist. I hurt people for fun. (It may or may not be fun for them, but that's another subject.) That's what a sadist is in BDSM terms. Somebody who enjoys inflicting pain, for whatever reason, with those who have consented to have pain inflicted upon them. The reasons for enjoying it can vary greatly and many sadists enjoy it for multiple reasons.

It may help you a great deal in learning about BDSM to read a NON-fiction book about it. Things that are written in books seem to sink in very well with you, whether they are true or not.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 12:00:46 PM

LaTigresse

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

I disagree with that and I think I qualify as a sadist. Sadism is for my pleasure and not punishment, if I need to beat or punish somebody to have control, then I've failed as a dominant, then I'm just a bully. Punishment for transgressions would be ignoring the person or giving the person a task they don't like.

What we do is consensual, in case somebody engages in a power exchange with me they have to want it, I'm not going to fight with them every step of the way, it's a waste of my energy. You want to disobey rules, we're just not well suited.

Very much this.

To be honest, my sadism has very little at all to do with my dominance and relationship dynamics.

I actually did an adendum to this earlier and my computer went wonky before it posted.

I couldn't save it and now I cannot remember the exact wording, but it is a bit like this.

My domination tends to be appreciated and beneficial to most everyone around me. Most people appreciate a good leader. It's good for my employer, it's good for my family, it benefits nearly all of my relationships. To even attempt to suppress it would be nearly impossible. It is my personality.

My sadism is appreciated by very few. It's not necessarily a positive attribute, or required, to do what needs to be done on any given day. It's a facet of me that requires a very disciplined control. I would venture to say it is a damned good thing I have the self control I do, and a strong moral code.......or I would not exactly be someone you would want walking free on this planet.

Learning more about BDSM and power exchange relationships did two things for me. It allowed me to free my inner sadist (yay me) but it also allowed me to dramatically strengthen the mastery of self that plays off the dominant aspect of my personality. My moral code and ethics require me to be responsible....to master myself. For ME, acknowledging that sadist also forces me to dominate and master myself, first and foremost. If I cannot do that, then I have no business dominating/mastering, others.

So while the sadist is freed and more readily accessed, it is also much better controlled.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 12:37:20 PM

LadyHibiscus

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I didn't call myself a sadist for a long time. I owe that bit of self-acceptance to Hugh, oddly enough. I could do pretty much anything I wanted to him, and that kind of thoughless freedom really opened me up to seeing that it was 'okay' to take the badge.

Controlling that, and taking pleasure in minor acts, not just extreme ones, feeds back into mastering myself.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 12:42:24 PM

LadyConstanze

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I think in general a sadist who doesn't master her or himself is a danger

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 12:49:45 PM

BurntKitty

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quote:

ORIGINAL: darkchaos666

what would you say the difference between dominant and sadist is.

One enjoys control, the other enjoys causing pain.

I'm in a relationship with a sadist. We do not have a d/s dynamic. He does fun hurtie things to me. I like those hurtie things. I'm not a submissive woman, I consider myself a sadomasochist. My guy enjoys finding new ebil ways to make me cry "ow". And most times he does things is "just because", not necessarily as foreplay to sex.

He makes me happy, and in turn is happy as a result. We're just two middle-aged pain enthusiasts.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 12:55:23 PM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Dominants get off on control. Sadists get off on hurting folks.

This.

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RE: Difference between dominant and sadist - 7/29/2012 6:29:10 PM

Ullrmann

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: KateMid
But isn’t one way a Dom gets control by inflicting pain in the form of punishments? If he is unable to punish for transgressions then surely he has no real control.

You may want to go back to the other thread where people tried to explain the concept of punishment to you. I don't think some of these concepts are really sinking in.

I'm a Dominant woman. I do not need to inflict physical pain in order to punish or to maintain control. If I *needed* to use pain to control someone, I might as well hang it up.

I also happen to be a sadist. I hurt people for fun. (It may or may not be fun for them, but that's another subject.) That's what a sadist is in BDSM terms. Somebody who enjoys inflicting pain, for whatever reason, with those who have consented to have pain inflicted upon them. The reasons for enjoying it can vary greatly and many sadists enjoy it for multiple reasons.

It may help you a great deal in learning about BDSM to read a NON-fiction book about it. Things that are written in books seem to sink in very well with you, whether they are true or not.

I respect your chosen approach, but the use of pain as a punishment is not equivalent to *needing* to use it to maintain control. Inflicting painful punishments is a natural fit for a combination sadist/dominant - whether or not the approach is actually chosen. The critique of KateMid "not getting it" seems off base and based on her not falling in line with your personal approach to maintaining control. Or maybe it is just a backlash against 50 Shades of Tripe? Either way, your hostility is unnecessary.

I've been curious about this for a while now. Why is it that so many people around here think it is ok to inflict pain as long as it is not for punishment? What about punishment make pain off limits? It seems acceptable to say "obey me or get out", which seems far worse than any corporal punishment. A dominant in anything more than a casual play encounter should take more personal responsibility for their submissive than that. I would never abandon my wife as some ultimate punishment. Yet, somehow my approach combining my enjoyment of inflicting pain with a punishment dynamic maintaining control in my relationship is seen as inferior or even inappropriate? It doesn't make sense to me.

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