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What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 6:36:30 AM

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There is a monthly party called Scarlet Moons. It's primarily for spanking. Tasha and I love going there and playing with each other there, and with others.

I have been mentoring for a program called the Colorado Mentors Program. Recently, the program came under fire for having a mentor who was accused of rape by at least five women in the community. Obviously, mentors should have good reputations, and his was crap. Although he is no longer with the program, the way the leadership responded has pissed off a major chunk of the community and inflamed feelings.

This guy, who I'll call B, has been attending Scarlet Moons for a couple of years. He doesn't play much, but he comes to socialize, sell his implements there, and show off his harem, which currently consists of two or three lovelies but has been as many as five or six in the past. I have seen him bring women into his harem there, and he can do it very quickly - he's damn good.

He is a good friend of the woman, D, who runs Scarlet Moons. She sent out an email saying that he is her friend, and will continue to be a guest there, and anyone who cannot deal with that and keep drama out of the party is not welcome.

Naturally, there are some in the community that claim that she is "harboring" B and that party attendees are "supporting" an accused rapist. I have no problems with ignoring that - I attend where I want.

My issue is that Fetlife shows party attendees ahead of time. I could easily pick off the attendees-to-be that he would be interested in, open up conversations with them, and warn them of B. I want to head off any possible issues for them. If I do this, word will get out, and I will be made a central figure in a shitstorm. Tasha and I will also get banned from the parties. Since we're well known and liked there, it will cause the community to implode further.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

_____________________________

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:17:12 AM

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That's a tough one. Accused of something doesn't mean convicted of something. Not that I'm defending him, but you walk a very fine line in attempting to warn off potential victims. Before you do anything, make sure you have facts in hand, hard facts, because if not, you could be setting yourself up for a defamation lawsuit. Best of luck.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:33:55 AM

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Thanks for your concern, but I'm not worried about a lawsuit. Defamation is brutally hard to prove, my sub is a damn good lawyer, and three women made written claims on Fetlife that he's raped them.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 5/3/2013 7:34:45 AM >

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:44:03 AM

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Written claims on a website are one thing, sworn depositions and official reports are another. Never go into a battle unprepared, and always prepare for the worst case scenario. Since your sub is a lawyer, she'd be the ideal person to ask about possible repercussions over and above getting banned from your group. On the surface, I would honor and respect the hostesses' wishes on the matter, but since you're concerned about the welfare of new members, I'd start putting together a laundry list of his transgressions for future use, should it become necessary. To me, her acceptance (or denial) of the matter is of some concern.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:45:30 AM

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That is a tough one. I think it's sad that out of five accusers, none of them have pressed charges?
On one hand, I'd feel as though I had a moral obligation to warn off any potential victims, but I would have a difficult time doing so with him not being convicted of anything. Not to mention, he can find victims anywhere and I wouldn't be able to save all of them. To me, that's the most important reason victims should come forward.
If he had been charged, I'd have a HUGE problem associating myself with any establishment that allowed this.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:58:41 AM

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My gut instinct tells me if rape has not been proven, you really don't know the facts. It's probably quite likely his reputation has gotten around, and your taking it upon yourself to warn potential ladies that he may not have even contacted yet puts your own reputation at risk. If you end up ostracized and/or banned from future events, what good will you be to those people who may need your counsel in the future?

Go to the parties you choose to attend, and if possible, strike up conversation with those you are concerned about. You can ask them if they've heard of the claims about "B", although that may label you as a gossip.

Ultimately, it's up to individuals to choose who to align themselves with. All the people in the world could have warned me about my ex dude and it's not likely I would have listened. There are some lessons we need to learn on our own. If word is already out about this guy (and it sounds like it is), then it's up to the women he approaches whether or not they want to involve themselves with him.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 8:04:34 AM

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quote:

three women made written claims on Fetlife that he's raped them.

I just can't get behind using social media to address a law enforcement issue.

Now, if the legal system isn't working properly, such as in the Steubenville rape case, by all means use social media to get them to do their job. But social media shouldn't be a starting and ending point in criminal matters.

So to answer your question, if the five women can't be bothered to go to the police, I wouldn't be bothered to go out of my way to warn others about him. Assuming you know them, you could put some energy into encouraging them to file charges.

What about a workshop for noobs, covering things like having a vanilla meeting first, healthy boundaries, listening to your instincts, trusting your gut, identifying as sub doesn't mean you lose the ability to say no?

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 8:22:16 AM

Thaz

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How about expressing your concerns privately to the event organizer? Or have they nailed their colors so firmly to the mast that its not worth the effort?

My personal view is that you either have to continue going and suck it up and stay silent or you absent yourself. Trying to pull some middle ground and then warning folks off either in person or perhaps worse being perceived to go behind peoples backs and using the internet will just land you right in dramaville. I know I would have a hard time staying silent when yon predator next makes his move.

Tricky considering guilt is not yet proven and how difficult it can be to prove it in such cases. You have my sympathy for being in this bind DS.

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 8:58:23 AM

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I had a similar issue with the Preston munch, though not quite as serious as allegations of rape.

There was an online stalker of the munch, always put himself down as going but never showed. Over several months I got complaints about him, claiming to be a regular and being the instadom - insisting on giving lifts to the munch, demanding their addresses. On one he even claimed to be the doorman to the pub where the munch was held. It was creepy, sure, never heard from anyone who'd actually met him though.

In the end I got fed up of the complaints and put up a generic warning not to accept lifts from strangers, and if anyone was putting you off attending an event to message the organiser. Enough people seemed to recognise who I meant from messages they'd received and pretty much outed him. He's still there I think under a different name, but never puts himself down as going now.

I'm with the "encourage to press charges" crowd here, if they don't want to but you still believe them then I guess do what you feel is right for you - no regrets and all that. I don't know about there but here the scene recycles a lot, very few of the same faces about that were here 6 years ago.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 9:02:18 AM

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On one hand you say you have no problem ignoring the issue and attending the event. On the other hand you seem concerned enough to warn others... but then show concern about how that action might impact you and yours. Perhaps I just don't understand your post. What this guy *may* have done is bad enough to warn others about but not bad enough to skip the event?

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 9:15:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

three women made written claims on Fetlife that he's raped them.

I just can't get behind using social media to address a law enforcement issue.

Now, if the legal system isn't working properly, such as in the Steubenville rape case, by all means use social media to get them to do their job. But social media shouldn't be a starting and ending point in criminal matters.

So to answer your question, if the five women can't be bothered to go to the police, I wouldn't be bothered to go out of my way to warn others about him. Assuming you know them, you could put some energy into encouraging them to file charges.

What about a workshop for noobs, covering things like having a vanilla meeting first, healthy boundaries, listening to your instincts, trusting your gut, identifying as sub doesn't mean you lose the ability to say no?

This is essentially my position as well. I wouldn't be willing to take action just because I read one side of a story on the internet.

However, have you spoken to any of these women in real life? If you know them in real, and you are personally convinced by them that they are telling the truth, then that's a different situation. At least it would be, for me. That said, I wouldn't just accept someone's word. I'd need to know the person had a history of telling the truth, and not being dramatic, and that the details of the situation were all consistent.

If you're in a mindspace where you feel you have to do something, and can't just ignore it, then my suggestion would be to take steps to find out the truth. I don't know what that would entail, but perhaps you do. Get something concrete, and then make a judgement based on that. If that isn't possible, you might have to accept the unpleasant reality that you don't really know what happened.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to kalikshama)

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 9:38:19 AM

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Which mistake can you live with... warning someone when you shouldn't.

Or not warning them when you should have? Cost of error. If you believe that these women may be at risk, then this is a matter of doing the right thing and putting the safety of others above concerns for your social life. That said, you can still handle it graciously, and advise them that you might be WAY off base and nothing has been proven but nevertheless you felt a duty to warn.

On the flipside, if you were falsely accused of something like this, the least of your worries would be missing out on a few play partners who heard about the allegations, no?

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:03:17 AM

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Steven, if I recall correctly, this is the second, if not the third time that you have posted a problem specifically associated that has sprung from this same event/group. Part of the advice that I am going to give you is that, I know you enjoy the group, but you are going to have to start thinking about if the host is screening people properly. I know you care whether or not people are safe going there and if you want to be associated with parties that seem to have so many issues.

Five women? Didn't any of these five file a report? Are there any formal charges pending? I understand it's a hard process to go through for the victims(s) but I have to tell you that I wish more people would if a crime has been committed.

I've actually been very vocal about not naming the accused on social media if no criminal conviction is on record. It's honestly not fair to debate he said/she said on a site like here or Fet. Hearsay, even from multiple sources, isn't actual proof.

Can you at least sit down and talk with D about the matter? Would she be willing to have an announcement linked with her parties for any newbie type orientations that you might have in your area?

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:05:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: evesgrden

Which mistake can you live with... warning someone when you shouldn't.

Or not warning them when you should have? Cost of error. If you believe that these women may be at risk, then this is a matter of doing the right thing and putting the safety of others above concerns for your social life. That said, you can still handle it graciously, and advise them that you might be WAY off base and nothing has been proven but nevertheless you felt a duty to warn.

On the flipside, if you were falsely accused of something like this, the least of your worries would be missing out on a few play partners who heard about the allegations, no?

In LA, we had a case in 1999 and 2000.

I was approached by a submissive who I knew slightly to be the second submissive to her "Master". I declined for numerous reasons.

About a month later, I received an email from her saying that I needed to be careful because he seemed determined to meet me and he had raped and beaten her. She ended up in the hospital for three weeks. The attitudes of the hospital staff regarding D/s combined with her shyness convinced her not to press charges. (Her injuries were brutal, including 52 stitches in her vagina)

The next time I saw that guy's screen name come online, I warned everyone on the chat room that I had heard a rumor about him.

I received email threats and unsolicited references by unknown screen names.

Then apparently, he decided to try a different tack. He changed his screen name (unknown to us) and proceeded to set up meetings with women from the SoCalSubFemRoom on AOL and even attended the LA Social. (He tried very hard to get me to meet him)

He proceeded to rape 7 more women in six months (that we know of). Finally, the last woman pressed charges. (The woman above, was the first)

Then the name of our chat room was in the LA Times. The police showed up at the LA Social and questioned people. It turns out, the man who did this was just out of prison on parole and these rapes were his third strike.

So, the moral of the story is: Rape is under reported to the authorities. Just because it hasn't been reported to the authorities, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. If the members of the community had taken further steps to investigate the first rumor, it's possible the other 7 women wouldn't have been raped and beaten. (It also exposed the members of the community to public scrutiny)

My general view is that if you hear something about someone in the community and you hear it has happened multiple times, while it might not be 100% accurate, there is something there.

I'm assuming that since the man in question is active in the community, these women who have made the accusations are at least somewhat known in the community. So, it's not like a random internet accusation.

I find the hostess' attitude appalling. She's putting her friendship with the accused in front of her responsibility for the safety of her guests. At the very least, she should not have him attend until the truth is discovered. By stating her friendship takes first place, she is in effect endorsing this man.

Personally, I wouldn't attend and I would tell her about my concerns. I vote with my wallet and my feet. I would encourage others to do the same. Maybe if attendance drops enough, she'll get the hint.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/3/2013 10:10:40 AM >

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:08:35 AM

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I keep reading on these sites accusations that someone had been accused of rape.

In my world, if I was accusing someone of rape, then it meant I was really raped and I would have gone to the police.

I just do not understand accusations without anything to back them up.

As for what you should do, DS, I really don't know, because it really is up to the women who are the accusers to make this stick, right?

(in reply to evesgrden)

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:19:22 AM

absolutchocolat

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FR

I'm with Oside. Criminal charges or not, a good hostess wouldn't invite this schmuck to any more parties. If I had a "friend" whose presence made my guests wary of coming, it's a no-brainer...he's uninvited.

Things like this make it difficult for women in the community to report rape. *If* this guy is a rapist and still allowed to show off his harem and swing his dick at events, what messages does that send to his victims? I think where there's smoke, there's fire. One accusation is shaky, but five makes me think that this guy is trouble.

Personally, I wouldn't attend the parties, but warning women ahead of time might, like MasterCaneman says, put you square into dramaville.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:39:16 AM

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DS, do the women accusing him of rape attend any of the same events as him? The reason I ask is because I know you could never get me in the same room with the man who raped me. If they are still attending the same socials as him, it would give me pause.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 10:47:17 AM

SomethingCatchy

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To me this is a no-brainer. The hostess has invited someone others do not like, but then she went on to say 'he's coming and I don't care if you don't like it.' That makes her unapproachable. A hostess's job is to take into consideration the comfort and safety of everyone in attendance. Because she's taken a hard stance that means NO ONE is allowed to talk to her about it. You yourself said that you'd be banned for talking about it with others. That means if these accusations are true, and this man crosses a line with someone in attendance, she is being told from the start 'don't even bother talking to the hostess. She won't do anything about it.'

Immaturity makes me walk away. I don't waste time on people who throw parties and then pick favorites and neglect the other guests. This woman hosting this party makes it loud and clear she's incapable of doing her job correctly.

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 11:09:18 AM

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quote:

She ended up in the hospital for three weeks. The attitudes of the hospital staff regarding D/s combined with her shyness convinced her not to press charges. (Her injuries were brutal, including 52 stitches in her vagina)

I can sympathize with women who don't want to go through the court process because they have no physical injuries to support their story. I am shocked and appalled that with this amount of injuries the hospital did not contact the police. Wasn't there Mandatory Reporting then?

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RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 11:15:26 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

She ended up in the hospital for three weeks. The attitudes of the hospital staff regarding D/s combined with her shyness convinced her not to press charges. (Her injuries were brutal, including 52 stitches in her vagina)

I can sympathize with women who don't want to go through the court process because they have no physical injuries to support their story. I am shocked and appalled that with this amount of injuries the hospital did not contact the police. Wasn't there Mandatory Reporting then?

They did call the police. The police treated her like crap because she was into BDSM D/s. Because of that she refused (and the attitude of the hospital staff) she refused to press charges. She was also extremely shy, so the prospect of getting that treatment on a larger scale sent her back into the closet.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 5/3/2013 11:49:03 AM >

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to kalikshama)

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