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going too far - 12/31/2006 5:15:01 PM

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if a girl finds herself in a situation with her Master where the blows are becomming too hard, does she have the right to stop the session and even tell Him she will involve the police if He does not?
not just because she does not feel like haveing a session, but because she is afraid He will do actual damage if not checked.
or should she wait it out and talk to Him afterwards?

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RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:23:01 PM

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WOW that is why safe words are importent.. if something is going to far the salve should say something actualy any good Master should know he is going to far.. if she says something and the Master doesnt listen then the slave really needs to leave said "Master" because he aparently doesnt really care for the girls safety.

Magik's slave

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:25:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira
if a girl finds herself in a situation with her Master where the blows are becomming too hard, does she have the right to stop the session and even tell Him she will involve the police if He does not?

Legally, in the laws of the US, yes, she has that right.

Within the relationship, that seems slightly excessive. We go from shouting "Please slow down Master!" or even "Red!" into "Stop or I'll call the cops on you!"????

quote:

not just because she does not feel like haveing a session, but because she is afraid He will do actual damage if not checked.
or should she wait it out and talk to Him afterwards?

So she's sincerely afraid he's going to do unintended damage, but she should wait it out and see what happens? So then the damage may occur, the slave is now damaged and the master feels like crap for causing it- yeah, great solution there.

I don't know of a single top who would not want to be informed of their bottom being in unintended distress WHEN it happens. Whether they respond in a way that the slave feels appropriate at the time is another story- but not communicating what's going on seems an egregious mistake on the part of the slave.

But reasonable is reasonable- if a scene is going bad, you say "Master, my headspace is totally fucked up right now" and/or "Master, these blows are too much, I don't think I can handle it" and go from there.

Starting out with "Stop or I'll call the cops on you" seems very excessive and unnecessary.

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:28:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
WOW that is why safe words are importent.. if something is going to far the salve should say something actualy any good Master should know he is going to far.. if she says something and the Master doesnt listen then the slave really needs to leave said "Master" because he aparently doesnt really care for the girls safety.

Magik's slave

MSlave, I'm not sure how long it's going to take you to realize that bdsm isn't all puppies and rainbows, but not all couples use safewords and not all masters will respond in a soft and cuddly way when a slave is in distress. It depends on if the distress is intentional or not, it depends on whether the master thinks the slave can handle more or not.

It's not at all necessarily a sign that the master isn't a great lover/master just because he doesn't follow how the slave thinks he should follow.

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:28:31 PM

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understand that this is a hypothetical question. the subject came up in conversation and this girl is just curious if others feel the same way she does.
apparently so.

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:32:20 PM

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actual damage to someone that adores him does not stay with the description of "safe,sane and consentual "

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:45:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
WOW that is why safe words are importent.. if something is going to far the salve should say something actualy any good Master should know he is going to far.. if she says something and the Master doesnt listen then the slave really needs to leave said "Master" because he aparently doesnt really care for the girls safety.

Magik's slave

MSlave, I'm not sure how long it's going to take you to realize that bdsm isn't all puppies and rainbows, but not all couples use safewords and not all masters will respond in a soft and cuddly way when a slave is in distress. It depends on if the distress is intentional or not, it depends on whether the master thinks the slave can handle more or not.

It's not at all necessarily a sign that the master isn't a great lover/master just because he doesn't follow how the slave thinks he should follow.

If the sub or slave is in distress and the master doesn't stop, doesn't that mean consentual has now become nonconsentual?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:46:04 PM

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Fears like this need to be dealt with WAY before getting to this point. If you don't trust yourself with someone and with how they will react to a request from you in a scene, DON'T scene with them. If you're starting out and still aren't sure, don't let them restrain you...thus you can get up and walk away if it gets too rough and they don't seem to care.

Master Fire

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:47:55 PM

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LA is right. By law, a slave (sub, bottom, masochist, kajira, whatever) has the legal right to stop any scene, at any time. In fact, by law, most of the common activities that are 'scene' related (naturally, anything that would cause her to fear for real damage and/or her life) are illegal. Consent does not constitute a defense in most states (and countries.) This is why people who get in a fist fight can be taken to jail.

Obviously, how this plays out within a lifestyle relationship isn't a question of law. Again, as LA said, there's a pretty big leap from 'that hurts' to 'stop or I'll call the cops' to 'please don't kill me!' Do your very best to only associate with individuals who, in your best opinion, will respect any boundries you have and respond appropriately if you are in distress. The best way not to get robbed is not to let thieves into your house, right?

Stephan

< Message edited by Stephann -- 12/31/2006 5:50:28 PM >

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(in reply to simplewhispers)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:50:35 PM

diamonddreamlove

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Do you not have a safe word. That, if your Master is trustworthy, should stop the session immediately. If you are afraid of your Master because he does not have good self control or if you are not using a safe word then i suggest communicating with your Dom is a good idea. Personally i would not have a Master i did not trust enough to believe he would care for me instead of harm me after all damaged property is not usually the typical Master attitude. This sounds more like a potential abusive relationship as stated.

I agree bdsm is not all cuddles and puppies but it does have consent. When the consent stops abuse starts if the scene continues.

< Message edited by diamonddreamlove -- 12/31/2006 6:00:52 PM >

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:57:58 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
If the sub or slave is in distress and the master doesn't stop, doesn't that mean consentual has now become nonconsentual?

Nope.

Heck, in rape scenes, it's exactly where you WANT to go sometimes.

Distress does not equal revoking consent.

See how important it is to communicate, know who you are playing with and how these things will be dealt with BEFORE the scene?

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 5:59:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: simplewhispers
actual damage to someone that adores him does not stay with the description of "safe,sane and consentual "

How do you define "damage"?

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(in reply to simplewhispers)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:09:29 PM

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I am going to answer from a perspective of putting myself in this situation. I don't like pain of any kind, and yet, Master IS a sadist. There have been times that the pain has been so unbearable that I just want to scream out "oh god please stop it hurts". If I was to do this, there is no guarantee that Master will stop. It's his decision; a decision that I placed in his hands when I agreed to become his property. In addition to this, Master knew that I did not like pain long before we ever reached the stage of my becoming his; just as I knew that pain would be something that I would have to endure. The times that it has been so intense that I have been brought to tears; we always talk about it after-wards. Master truly does not like seeing the tears on my face.

I would never threaten to use the police in a situation where I thought that Master had gone too far.

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(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:15:06 PM

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I think of any Master who won't allow a safeword in the beginning of a relationship as potentially abusive.

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:20:23 PM

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I've never had a safe word and I've never been abused. It's called communicating with the person.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:23:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
I think of any Master who won't allow a safeword in the beginning of a relationship as potentially abusive.

Anyone is POTENTIALLY abusive. Unless the master LIES about using a safeword and then not, then the slave is fully aware that a "safe word" is not in use of the scene and determined that other methods will be used, or prepared to handle the consequences if they are not.

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:23:47 PM

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Isn't communicating with the person if it gets too intense almost the same thing as a safeword? The only difference I see is that more than one word is used.

(in reply to Aileen68)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:25:27 PM

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I have to go with LuckyAlbatross here, as I often do. A lot depends on the nature of the relationship, and the intent of what's going on.

The way that you described it as "having a session" would lead me to believe that it's some form of spanky-play. In that case, the object is for you both to have a good time, yes? When one of you stops having a good time, it's time to stop. Standard caveats about safe-words, lots of communication before the "session", and the gradual build up of trust over time so that limits can be ethically pressed apply here.

In other situations, those pat answers might not apply. I disciplined my slave tonight. She was ready for me to stop paddling her ass long before I did, and was genuinely crying and begging for it to be over. If you had asked her at the time if I was going too far, I'm sure you'd have gotten something along the lines of "hell yes!!". She was being disciplined. Of course she's not having a good time. She has, however, submitted herself as my slave, and along with that submission comes submitting to my discipline as I see fit to apply it. Legally and theoretically, she could call the cops and show them her welted butt and I'd be charged with a crime, to be sure. Practically speaking, that isn't going to happen, because even though I may not have honored her pleading for me to stop what I was doing, I was within the bounds of the master/slave relation that we have to one another.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 12/31/2006 6:29:41 PM >

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RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:25:51 PM

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So some women actually agree to no safeword the first time they scene with a guy before getting to know him? Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 12/31/2006 6:27:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Isn't communicating with the person if it gets too intense almost the same thing as a safeword? The only difference I see is that more than one word is used.

Yes, which is why so many advocate simply using direct communication rather than a "safe word."

As well, a "safe word" often carries with it an expectation of what will happen when the word is said- usually that the scene stops completely.

Direct communication however, deals more with simply making sure everyone is on the same page and then the top going where appropriate from that- changing the pace, changing the toy, changing the position, or possibly stopping the scene etc.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

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