Collarchat.com

Join Our Community		 Collarchat.com

Home  Login  Search 

Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or... - 3/7/2007 9:45:28 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I have a slight dilemma, and don't want to anger anyone, or ruin a potentially good realtionship - but am not sure what to do here. I am actually in tears over this. I also feel like a fool.

I feel like someone is almost trying to back me into a corner. Yet part of me thinks the situation I will describe is something they honestly believe I should be understanding about. I find myself surprised they can't seem to see my dilemma, yet expect me to see theirs.  

I almost feel manipulated, because they know if I make too big a fuss about this, and refuse to go, I am out at least $250 for a plane ticket (I bought a non-refundable plane ticket), and they thus maybe they think this fact will make me just completely overlook the following -  

My question is: If you are going to visit someone in another state, and have your plane ticket, etc. and they had promised to give you very basic identifying information about themselves before your visit, and then refused to do so, what do you do?

I mean their street address, and their last name. Also, suppose you found out they had also not been truthful about their first name, even?

Even if all of this secrecy was all on the premise that they are in a profession where if they were ever "Outed" the result could be disastrous. It could be, I agree. BUT

I have no intention of "Outing" anyone. If I wanted to do that kind of thing, (which I don't ) I would have done it last Fall, when my ex-Dominant beat me to a pulp. I suppose I could have phoned his employer, and ranted into the phone, but did not (I have more class than that).

Also, if someone likes me enough to ask me to visit them in another state, and I am paying for the visit, what gives? I mean - what else do I have to do here, to prove my intentions are honorable? We have spent at least 2 months e-mailing, and phoning eachother already. I am the submissive in this situation - not the Dominant. 

I guess I trust them, but on the other hand, I am not being given very basic personal ID info I was promised I'd be given before my visit. All I want is a last name, and a street address, and I am not getting it. I am supposed to leave for this trip on Monday.

And I am really tempted to make it known I am upset about this, or even cancel my visit. So far, all I've done is mention I think it a very curious decision, given that all of the advice I've read goes against this very idea, and says I should get at least a last name and street address, and they supposedly have my safety in mind, etc. They are not budging.

Maybe I should just shut up. Maybe it shouldn't be a big deal to me. I do like this person (really, I do. And I don't want to ruin a possibly good thing here). But still...

I think I've made it more than clear I have no desire, or intent, to ever "Out" anyone. Nor do I have a reason. Nor do I think I am being unreasonable.  

I've asked (twice this week), and been told: "You will find all that out when you arrive".

Well - I realize some people's privacy has reason to be well-protected, and yet I find myself resenting I am expected to possibly compromise my ability to trust them, to protect their need for apparent uber-privacy, or selse be thought of as "un-cooperative".

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/7/2007 10:31:20 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:30:13 PM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		uhhh, you're supposed to fly to another state and not know the person's last name and address?

no.

HELL NO.

if you go, i will find you and beat you down myself!!!!

p.s.  i still have a hard time seeing you as NOT liv tyler

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:36:11 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		pissdoll: Thanks for the feed-back. It is a rather curious request, I think. I assumed he'd be letting me know all this this week. But apparently, that is not to be. He is in a profession where "privacy is paramount". I agree, but my safety and trust concerns are pretty paramount as well (to me, anyway).

I will ask one more time tommorrow (or Friday, rather - he is at work all night and sleeping all day tommorrow, and I don't want to wake him).

*Yeah, I changed my avatar when someone said they thought I actually was Liv Tyler and was "mis-leading" everyone, by having her face as my avatar. So now, I am Audrey Hepburn instead (what can I say? I am a born rebel, I guess, he).

He's made all kinds of plans for out visit, but is that my fault? I almost feel guilty for feeling pissed. But, I am not exactly asking for the moon here, I want a last name and an address. 

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/7/2007 11:09:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:42:24 PM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		if i were in your shoes, i wouldn't go at this point REGARDLESS of whether or not he gives up the info.

taking a trip to another state to meet someone you "know" but don't really KNOW is a huge step and requires a LOT of faith.

being out $250 is really lousy.  but YOU are worth more than $250. 

all that keeps running through my mind at this point is: 

is he trying to run down the clock so that you don't have time to do some background checking on him before you get there???

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:46:34 PM   
SCDommie


Posts: 176
Joined: 1/24/2007
Status: offline 		Susan:

If you are feeling anxious about this meeting, it may be your gut trying to tell you not to go.  Something is fishy. Sounds like he is married.   When they are married, they won't give you any personal identification.

Take the $250 as a loss and be thankful you are ok.

SCD

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:51:26 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		SCDommie: I appreciate the comments (and am taking them to heart).

The confusing part here, to me is:
He really does seem trustworthy as far as being reasonable, nice and mild-mannered, etc. when we talk on the phone and e-mail.

I understand he is in a professional position, etc. - I honestly do. I also understand he is not going to give this kind of info to everyone, or to just anyone. 

However, presumably, I am not "everyone" - and it is a rather well-known fact that every bit of advice I've read on safety etc, for submissives says to have at least this much basic info, before visiting someone. And I'd also hope he'd trust me enough at this point to give me his last name and address.

I do not want to go head-to-head, or have a stand-off about this. I don't really think this is a good note to start things off on.  

I am feeling silly, because I should have insisted on knowing these things, maybe, before things ever went this far, yet I also don't want to seem non-understanding of his position. I mean the whole thing just makes me feel totally backed into a corner. And it's probably my fault. But at this point, I am not sure I care, I just want this basic information, and that's it. If this is that hard to do, then maybe there are trust issues here I am not equipped to deal with, ever.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/7/2007 11:06:35 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:53:58 PM   
SatinNhandcuffs


Posts: 6
Joined: 2/13/2007
Status: offline 		might i suggest in the future requiring the information to be given to you before you book your plane ticket.?

it's not a matter of Domlyness vs. subbieness, it's a matter of common courtesy and respect, not to mention safety. anyone, Dom or sub should be considerate to the potentially dangerous situation you're putting yourself into and want to do whatever they can to make you feel more secure about the decision.

i agree with the pp, being out $250 sucks, but your life and sanity are worth a whole lot more.

~kitty

(in reply to SCDommie)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:54:50 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the comments. I agree, I should have thought twice first.
I just trust people too much - I always have, I guess. But he's been really reasonable in every other way, and really nice. I just don't understand his position - not at this point anyway.

I know it sounds like he could be - but I really don't think he's married. I think maybe he thinks his privacy concerns trump my trust and safety concerns, due to his profession. Well, they might in his mind, but not in mine, not really. Not at this point anyway.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/7/2007 10:59:21 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to SatinNhandcuffs)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 10:58:49 PM   
bearincuffs


Posts: 1904
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		To answer your question, I would not go visit a dom who lived in another state witout having a first and last name, street address and phone number.
Trust is a two way street and if he expects you to trust him, then he has to trust you not to Out him at his work. With every type of relationship trust has to be built on both sides. If you feel manipulated then it's a good possibility that is happening.
When I was first communicating with my Master and we got to the point of me making my initial visit, he gave me his first and last name, street address and his phone number even before I had asked, and with my case, I'm in Canada and he lives in the States with 1200 miles separating us (but not for long, yay!!!).

_____________________________

property of Master Dave of the House of Gemini

An it harm none, do as thou wilt
Do what you will, so long as it harms none
An it harm none, do what thou will
That it harm none, do as thou wilt
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 11:00:16 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		bearincuffs: Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the feed-back.

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to bearincuffs)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 11:16:45 PM   
pissdoll


Posts: 343
Joined: 5/25/2005
Status: offline 		how would he feel if his sister or his daughter were to fly across the country to meet a man without having time to verify basic information about him?  if he says he'd let her go without any qualms, then he's not the type of person you want to be with.  if he says no way, yet doesn't give you that basic information, he's not the type of person you want to be with.

if you are still considering going, i'd give it to him in a nutshell:  his inability to give any regard to your safety causes you grave concern about submitting to a man such as himself.

i'd give him all of 3 minutes to cough up his name and address.  if he gave it, i would thoroughly check him out.  if he doesn't, cut off all contact and never speak to him again.  don't put up with any excuses.  he might be married; he might not.  there are worse things in life than him being married.  do you really want to find out first-hand what they are?

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 11:30:22 PM   
gypsyfirefly


Posts: 643
Joined: 2/22/2007
Status: offline 		Susan, 
 
Trust must be a two-way street, otherwise, it is a dead end.  And, as pissdoll said, "you are worth more than $250.00."  
 
If you do decide not to go, one suggestion, call the airline, see if it is possible to donate the ticket (since it is non-refundable) for someone in need, possibly a serviceman/woman. You never know, the airline might offer you a credit of some kind in turn.  But either way, a good deed may come out of a "misdeed".
 
Take Care,
gypsy
 
 

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 11:30:27 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		*scratches pissdoll off the list of gullible subs*

Your getting good advice Susan... but I still think you should have come over before you came to your senses.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to pissdoll)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/7/2007 11:57:21 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the feed-back, people, it is appreciated  (also about possibly donating the ticket - I hadn't thought of that).

I will try one more time (but that's all) to get this information. perhpas I have not been forthright enough in my requests - when I really think I like somoen, I can be rather low-key. I thought I'd made myself clear (but perhaps not)?

Still I'd think it's someting they wouldn't mind doing at this point, and am also surprised they just plain haven't out-right offered. But I did ask. Plus, he has all of this information about me, I might add. Thanks for the comments, it's been helpful.

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 12:15:39 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to FukinTroll)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 12:25:44 AM   
servicewithsmile


Posts: 55
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline 		Can I throttle you next?
lol
I am the QUEEN of meeting strangers.
I used to do it all the time when working as a live-in nanny.  "Yes, yes, yackity yack, let me pack my things, I'll be there Sunday."  Jump in car, airplane, etc and go 6 states north to new job.  Ta-dah, here is a map to the school, kids must be there at 8am, don't be late!, drive around, check out the town, it's 9pm Sunday night, g'night! (grin)

SO...when it comes to meeting play partners, I distill my advice down to this one guiding principle -
IF SOMEONE WANTS TO HURT YOU, THEY PROBABLY CAN/WILL, BUT AS A RESPONSIBLE GROWN-UP IT IS your JOB TO MAKE SURE THEY DO NOT GET AWAY WITH IT EASILY......hope you agree with me Susan.

So...let's look at that.  How does someone get away with hurting you easily?  And of course, hurt here can mean, murder, murder by heinous torture, selling you into non-consensual slavery, rape, (notice the order here, hehe), stealing your identity, stealing your financial info, etc.  Okay, hope you're still with me 'cause I am still serious.  Or just as wicked, they're married/are poly which you did not agree to/have a disease they failed to disclose, etc. until you are there and THEN they tell ya - you are out $250 bucks to meet a liar. (Which by the way is a dominEERING trait -not Clark Kent -Domly at all.)
Okay, so moving on - Well.....should your body go missing, you have a few things in place to tell the police where to start looking such as;
Someone other than YOU, has a full name, address, and phone number.  Very good start.
Someone other than YOU, has a license plate number, make, model, etc.
Someone other than YOU, has a driver's license number.
So, if this person claims to be stable and in one place for quite a while, it is NO sweat to pull up their name on whitepages.com and check the address with the name.  If you have a match, good START.
Then, when you get whatever city you're going to, you meet at baggage claim.  They show you their driver's license before you EVER leave the terminal.  If they forgot it in the car, they can take their dumbass back to the car and get it.  YOU wait in the airport, even if it is 2.am.
NEXT, you call SOMEONE other than you and give them the DL#.  By that time, it had better be a match with what is on the internet for that address.  If it is unlisted, then it is their DUTY to prove to you that they are who they say they are and give you concrete information that allows them to be tracked down. 
And just for the record, I've met
A Doctor, couple of those...
A NYC prominent attorney
A multi-millionaire commercial broadcast CEO
A FedEx Driver
An accountant
An IBM executive
A Merck executive
umm...and others....
They were all happy to provide this information, and they absolutely were more vulnerable than myself.
.....Don't take chances with your life.  Plenty of Doms of the right stripe here, the ocean is teeming with the kind of fish that will show you some perfectly good evidence........not that they aren't aforesaid bad guy, but at least where to start looking for them.  PLEASE go to your nearest CM search engine and find one. :)

And yes, he is trying to manipulate you with underhanded tactics.  Congratulations, you learned a new 'trick', from Dom to sub, crap rolls downhill. lol

p.s.
What city are you going to?  Email me private please if you like, I am just dying to know.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 12:46:02 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am so so glad you wrote all this - because honestly he seems nice as all get out. Every time I've asked he's said: "Well, we're going to cover all of that". I made it clear twice before, that I wanted this info, and am kind of surprised it hasn't been offerred. Just now I said I HAVE to have it, or this trip is definitely a no go for me -  before I leave on the plane, if not asap. But I think he is in bed just now.

Yes, he is a supposed uber-professional. The only reason I'd have to NOT believe this at this point- is that he is not giving me this information - and it is pretty basic information, too.

Thanks also, for mentioning the driver's license number thingy. As I recall, he insisted it was un-necessary for me to rent my own car (I suggested this at first).

I had a friend lined up as a safe call, and was almost thinking it might not be necessary - well now, if I do go, I am lining up two safe calls.

There's another slightly weird thing, too. I am not supposed to look at his face - from the minute we meet. I understand that might be something meant to induce a "submissive feeling" in someone, and I said I'd try to do it. I have been just completely mesmerized up to this point, apparently. Until I woke up today and said to myself:

All of this could, of course, be innocent. But added up, it also very much appears it could be sinister. Today I said to myself:

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU DOING, YOU IDIOT!?
(I think possibly my guardian angel is at work, here, no kidding)

Self, I said to me -
Let's take a look at this, Susan - you know next to zero about someone who:

* Has been very nice to you so far, and appears to be wanting to have a nice time with you and meet up, and yet -

*Won't give you a last name or a street address

*Doesn't want you to drive your own car, or apparently really ever let you get a good look at his face (although of course I have seen his picture. I think so anyway).

* And yet - he has all of this information about me.

*Also, I called his house today, and he answered by a completly different first name than the one he's been using for the past 2 months (when I've talked to him (save I haven't even got his last name yet. He was not expecting my call). When I questioned this, he said people call him both, sometimes (Hmmm. Ok, that's possible. But, considering all the other pieces of this puzzle that are missing, "What is going on, here?", I started to ask myself.

Charm isn't going to work on me, from here on out - I will need real information I asked for that  I can check - and in enough time to do it by Monday morning, too.

THINK TWICE, DAMMIT, I told myself. I am scared now - now I am totally freaked out.

Glad I did. I hope he isn't insulted. However - if I don't get this information, and well before Monday - I am definitely not going on this trip.

I am also, at this point insisting on a driver's license number, and am still tempted to rent my own car.

He's been very polite to me, and I otherwise have no reason to distrust him - but - this is making me crazy. Perhaps I am ungrateful? Well, I bought a $200 vibrator, spent a lot of money on lingerie, and volunteered to pay for the plane ticket (and did) and motel room. I even bought him a little "welcome" gift yesterday (fool that I probably am).

I am just the kind of person who naturally trusts other people, and now that I've started thinking about all this - I really got damn scared about it all. I'm still scared.

Thanks so much, for listening to me - it's really helped clear my head.

-Susan    

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 1:36:08 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to servicewithsmile)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 1:55:39 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hello Susan,

I flew from the UK to Oslo to meet a male friend (not a boyfriend) with whom I'd spoken to via internet and phone only. I flew alone and he met me at the airport, I got in his car, we drove to his home in Oslo and I stayed there for 4 days. I had a wonderful time with a fantastic person who is now good friends with my parents, children and the whole family.

The difference here is........I knew him for 3 yrs before I met him, had spoken to his daughters via the phone and IM, knew his address, knew his job, where he worked, had his brother on my IM and basically......I was a trusted friend before I went. There was a gradual, natural exchange of information. We trusted each other.

It's one thing to be wary of being *outed* .......but quite frankly, you have as much chance of *outing* him AFTER you visit as you do if you have this information before you make this trip. If he cannot trust you now, why is he having you visit? You aren't going to be more trustworthy the day you AFTER you arrive than you are right now.

If someone is wary of me to that degree, I don't think they are ready to meet me, frankly.

Do you want to meet someone that hasn't taken the steps to put you completely at ease, without having to badger them?

He doesn't yet trust you, you don't trust him. It's no great feat to be polite and charming and it's not a reason to trust someone, nor does that build trust. All you can trust there, is that he can be polite and charming.

You say * you guess you tust him*......Ask yourself what that trust is built on.

You've shelled out quite a substantial amount of money already, ask yourself, why you have done this and what prompted you to.

agirl


(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 2:05:43 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		Listen to your instincts Susan .... everytime you say something like 'he seems really nice BUT...' that is your gut feeling talking, everytime you feel that something is 'slightly weird' that is your instincts talking, 'I otherwise have no reason to distrust him - but ' - again your instincts talking ... please listen to that inner voice - we would much rather you lost the airfare rather than your life. How useful would a safecall be if your friend doesn't know the name or any identifying details of the person who you are meeting?

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=790885

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 2:06:04 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		Oh Susan!  What a horrible Mess!  ... I have nothing really useful to add.  It's all been said above I think, but I just want to remind you to re read, re read, re read every time you begin to feel a bit weak. 

There was one area that did spark a question when you mentioned calling him at home.  If you have the home number there's alot you can do with it that can give you some added info.  Have you reverse look up'ed?  Somehow I doubt Mr Too High on the Food Chain will have a listed number, but you never know.  It's worth a try.  (yes I said that food chain thing in jest, but i've heard that tired ole line too often, some are simply a figment of their own imagination) 
If you get any info on this dont look at me (oh lord he cant be that important!) sorry I'm being bad again....
and he's near someone here on the boards that you trust it might be a good idea to share the info with them.  Always a possibility their paths have crossed at some point.  Could be they can dispell fears some or better yet alert you if they know him as a ledgend in his own mind!  ........ if he's in VA, let me know..
I'll find him. 

as for the ticket should you see the light and not go... treat yourself and go anyway.  just dont go to him!


_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 2:07:30 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		In addition........Regardless of MY trust in them...........I don't wish to meet anyone who doesn't trust ME with basic information.

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable? Or manipulation? Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2024
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.117