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RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 2:45:20 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
Hi Stella,
 
I did the math.  Now if puberty hits at an average of age 12.  Most are still living with their parental units at age 18. They have had a whole six years of a possible sex life (barring masturbation).  How many meaningful relationships have they had to where they have involved MEANINGFUL sex? 
 
What?  You mean BDSM isn't all about sex???  Don't tell the 18 yr old.  After all, this is the KEWLEST way to get off!  And for a guy...he figures all he has to do is order a "sub girl" and he gets what he wants, all the time with no more commitment than to shout "Kneel NOW!" (or so he hopes)
 
For the girls: This is nirvana!!!  At last they have found a "lifestyle" where they KNOW what they need to do.  Subs serve. The good ones do what they are told and in return they have a loving protector, Daddy or slave. No thinking is necessary.  After all it's all about trust. After Timmy ran over her Barbie doll with his bike and laughed at her, her faith in men is now restored.
 
Unfortunately, you can see how the situation is diametrically opposed at this age and one can see why SOME seek outside their age group.
 
Now, why I do not consider young'uns.  I consider WIITWD the equivalent of college level sex.  No one gets into college without the basics.  And I refuse to be a tutor for their 'grade school education'.   BDSM is too intense without the basics (aka vanilla).I mean.. how EVER are they going to rebel against the dreaded vanilla if they don't know why?
 
They have a frenzy.  The hormones are raging.


this whole post just makes me very sad, and it's this kind of attitude, i think, that makes it very difficult for those of us for whom this is more than "just sex" to learn -anything- or participate at all in the bdsm community. this is exactly the kind of attitude i ran into with the local community at first.

perhaps you, lotussong, do not wish to be my grade school education; He is a year your senior and is perfectly happy being with someone who is young (although He spends much of His time teasing me about how i must have more experience than i let on).

annabelle.

p.s. i believe you would be very surprised nowadays how many people do enter college barely knowing how to read or write.


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(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 2:57:38 PM   
Male22yo


Posts: 3
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline 		[I begin with an apology that I have not read ALL these posts as it is getting late and I need to get to bed to prepare for my job in the morning.  I did feel compelled to comment on something I saw mentioned at the beginning]

I don't think anyone will completely disagree that having the aforementioned life experiances help you to understand and relate to other experiances.  After all we make all our decisions based on past experiances....the more experiances you have....supposedly the more encompassing your decisions will become.  However I don't wish to get tied down with the material arguements of "who has done what and by what age = maturity".

I feel it is a common misconception that the younger members think they "know it all".  A "know it all" attitute at any age is surely immature.  I come here as a 22 year old, I am getting married, own a house and very secure job which I recieved off the back of travelling to many different countries and learning from them.  However I feel that any level of maturity I possess comes not from these things but from my willingness to admit that I don't know everything and my willingness to learn from what experiances other people have had.  This goes for all aspects of my life, not just BDSM. 

You do stumble across older people who now feel they "know it all" simply becuase they have ticked all the aforementioned boxes.

In the same vein I have no doubt there are many horny "young" people on this site just looking to get off.  However I implore you not to tarnish us all with the same brush.  I will only go from being a 22yo with 1 year experiance to a 30yo with 1 year experiance if no one gives me a chance.

Maturity, like humour, like beauty, like kink, like sexual deviancy, like enjoyment....is in the eye of the beholder.

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 3:08:19 PM   
bludemonn


Posts: 2619
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I actually tend to agree with you... traumatic events don't cultivate maturity.. day to day life does. The mundane messiness of life builds wisdom.
~ Stella

Never a truer word spoken.

Maturity be definition can only be achieved through time and not by the speed of the experience. I've known a few young people who feel because they have had to look after family members, become responsible, done drugs etc that it makes them 'mature' not so and never will. Time has a knack of weeding out all human habits and maturity is not based upon the depth of experiences one has had but purely by how they have learned to mature with them.

Just because a young dominant lady barks an order means nothing unless she has fully understood how this works, this will only ever be realised through maturity of pure time.

So many people tend to confuse 'maturity' with 'being responsible' they truly are not the same simply by time.  

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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 3:21:03 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDiscipliner69

Seems alot need the peer acceptance

Some are trolls

Some are wannabes

Some embellish the truth

Some fabricate the truth

Some reinvent themselves

Ross
©º°¨¨°º©
 




You can take all these scenarios and apply them to handfuls of adults ranging from my age to people your age.

There is nothing unique about any of these that makes them pertain solely to teenagers.


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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 3:26:30 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Hi Stella,
 
I did the math.  Now if puberty hits at an average of age 12.  Most are still living with their parental units at age 18. They have had a whole six years of a possible sex life (barring masturbation).  How many meaningful relationships have they had to where they have involved MEANINGFUL sex? 
 
What?  You mean BDSM isn't all about sex???  Don't tell the 18 yr old.  After all, this is the KEWLEST way to get off!  And for a guy...he figures all he has to do is order a "sub girl" and he gets what he wants, all the time with no more commitment than to shout "Kneel NOW!" (or so he hopes)
 
For the girls: This is nirvana!!!  At last they have found a "lifestyle" where they KNOW what they need to do.  Subs serve. The good ones do what they are told and in return they have a loving protector, Daddy or slave. No thinking is necessary.  After all it's all about trust. After Timmy ran over her Barbie doll with his bike and laughed at her, her faith in men is now restored.
 
Unfortunately, you can see how the situation is diametrically opposed at this age and one can see why SOME seek outside their age group.
 
Now, why I do not consider young'uns.  I consider WIITWD the equivalent of college level sex.  No one gets into college without the basics.  And I refuse to be a tutor for their 'grade school education'.   BDSM is too intense without the basics (aka vanilla).I mean.. how EVER are they going to rebel against the dreaded vanilla if they don't know why?
 
They have a frenzy.  The hormones are raging.


I have a lot of respect for nearly everything you post.

There is a lot of truth in this.

But...still...its a generalization and a bit of an unfair one at that.

The girl I am in the dating process with right now is 18 and doesnt fit into any of these categories. Over the last few months, I havent seen a single red flag. She has a good head on her shoulders and while she is sexually inexperienced, she is interested mostly in submission and submission for the right reasons. A desire to serve and to make someome she cares for happy. I have yet to see a single sign that this is anything but the truth nor have I seen anything that shows emotional trauma or major baggage. The fact that I still talk to her shows a lot (to me at least) since I have very little patience for annoying teenage girls and bottoms who solely want to be tied up and fucked.

I can understand your personal opinion because of your age and maturity level. I am sure you are thinking "Well...duh...your 23...you should be with someone young." The point was teenagers (like all people) are on a case by case basis to me.



< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 3/28/2007 3:58:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 3:55:45 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bludemonn

quote:

I actually tend to agree with you... traumatic events don't cultivate maturity.. day to day life does. The mundane messiness of life builds wisdom.
~ Stella

Never a truer word spoken.

Maturity be definition can only be achieved through time and not by the speed of the experience. I've known a few young people who feel because they have had to look after family members, become responsible, done drugs etc that it makes them 'mature' not so and never will. Time has a knack of weeding out all human habits and maturity is not based upon the depth of experiences one has had but purely by how they have learned to mature with them.

Just because a young dominant lady barks an order means nothing unless she has fully understood how this works, this will only ever be realised through maturity of pure time.

So many people tend to confuse 'maturity' with 'being responsible' they truly are not the same simply by time.  


I agree with you. Your thoughts are more or less the same in my first post which is why I dont stress to much on my maturity.

But...I think people can grow and mature faster or slower than others so how much time is needed is the real question. This is why I dont make the connection between age and maturity.

I also think the quality and depth of experienes DOES have something to do with it. I have been experiencing the day by day mundanes of adult life since I was on my own at 16. I seriously doubt my maturity level would be the same if I was 30 and had lived with my parents my entire life.

A lot of people are surprised when I reveal my age. I have worked side by side with a middle aged man for a year who was totally blown away when I told him my age for the first time a week ago.

But as much as I have grown now and as mature I think I am now...it will be nothing compared to what I will be in ten years.

Also give me an 18 year old with immaturity, wisdom and responsibility over a 30 year old with maturity, a complete lack of wisdom, and irresponsibility any day. (This comes from personal experience. These 30 year olds are called my roommates. I could handle immaturity if it came with rent money by the 1st.)

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 3/28/2007 4:05:47 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 4:16:36 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

MstrTiger why did you come to this site? It dosent look like it was to answer the question. I dont see anywhere in the post that I claimed to be more mature than anyone. I just asked what qualifies them to be mature. Guess you werent qualifed to answer it.


By asking a question like that you are implying that you are better/more experienced than the people you are aiming the question at, if you are not implying that then what exactly was the point of your question? Also why I came to this site is none of your business and once again I ask the question why do you think I or anyone anyone else should have to explain or justify themselves to you?


And if you dont feal the need to explain or justify anything, then why are you even bothering to make this post?

The cycle of circular logic continues...




Because it amused me to do so.


Your making it really hard for me to defend teenagers, okay?

Go away!

*stuffs him in a barrel*

Your not helping! Your an impediment to the Cause! Its for the greater good of this thread!

*erases all of MstrTiger's asasine posts*

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 4:26:13 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrTiger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

MstrTiger why did you come to this site? It dosent look like it was to answer the question. I dont see anywhere in the post that I claimed to be more mature than anyone. I just asked what qualifies them to be mature. Guess you werent qualifed to answer it.


By asking a question like that you are implying that you are better/more experienced than the people you are aiming the question at, if you are not implying that then what exactly was the point of your question? Also why I came to this site is none of your business and once again I ask the question why do you think I or anyone anyone else should have to explain or justify themselves to you?


And if you dont feal the need to explain or justify anything, then why are you even bothering to make this post?

The cycle of circular logic continues...




Because it amused me to do so.


Oh yeah..btw...you just justified yourself to me...

_____________________________

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Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 4:32:56 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		MadRabbit, you really don't need to defend yourself here at all. Your posts have all ready established your credibility. You don't need to convince anyone, the ones that matter already know.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 4:41:35 PM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Well, thank you very much, Mr. Troll

I always appreciate compliments from pathogically insecure, criminally neglient, and a dangerous pompous High Lord Domly Dom!

While I am sure, it would seem that I am on the defense, I really am not.

I happen to find this to be a very interesting discussion and am simply defending different viewpoints.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 4:43:19 PM   
FukinTroll


Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		Just wanted to shoot that at you, you wascally wabbit.

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 7:18:43 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		When I was 18 I'd had already been around the block a few times so to speak. some life experinces that gave me insite and experince beyond simply being 18, I'd been places and seen some honest horrors, including my room my trying to hang herself, being sexually molested about half my life,and they opend my eyes. I feel my sexual molestation and the years in the group homes and the subsequent abuse from people supposed to be our gaurdian and the other people in the homes gave me experinces that were beyond my years.

Some people might have traveled the world by time their 18, they might not be the typical teen punk, they might look and act like their 30 instead of 18 on and on and on
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I see a lot of young people comming on this site claiming to be mature beyond their years. This is a conception that IMHO is total BS. Someone explain to me how a 18 year old is mature and wise beyond their years. Have they been married and raised a family. Owned a home, had a job. What qualifies them as being mature?


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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 7:25:56 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		Sure you can. It might not be practical however, and it might be disasterous, and you might end up in a world of shit, but you can quit any job you wish just because it was not agreeable to you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: QuietlySeeking

It's not just about fiscal responsibility, it's about realizing that you can't just quit your job just because something "bad" happens. 


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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 8:39:12 PM   
curiouspet55


Posts: 133
Joined: 10/13/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I'm not going to claim experience I don't have within the BDSM world. I was in an online situation for 2 yrs with a man whom I called Master, but yes that was from age 16 to 18, and I do question now the legality and sense in the whole thing. Having a lot experience, to some people, could mean having the interest or desire in BDSM.

I would say I'm more mature than most my age, but for different reasons than you have listed. I haven't owned a house, or bought a car, or been married. I have, however, had a job, and purchased expensive items that I worked and saved to purchase ($2000 laptop, etc.). That doesn't equate with maturity, though. I claim to have a bit more maturity because emotionally, and mentally, I have developed a strength of character and a perspective that is rare to others my age. Again, it is rare in those I have met, I cannot speak for everyone. My mother is bipolar/manic, she has heart disease, emphyzema (sp?), is 450+lbs, and is paranoid schizophrenic. She has been committed to a mental institution 2x that I can remember, and has been hospitalized for an extended period on 4 separate occasions for health related problems. My sister has trichotillamania, is also 400+lbs, has stolen things, done drugs, somewhat protituted herself, is in severe debt, and much more. I am the youngest, but I was left on my own a lot when I was younger, and I had to deal with situations many others haven't. I wasn't raised in a bubble of loving security that gives most 18-19yr olds their immaturity.

I can still have my moments, I'm certainly easily amused, and I don't claim to be the most mature person. I know I have a long way to go, and I plan on enjoying that exploration and quest. The thing is, you can't define maturity by monetary gain and struggle, and you shouldn't generalize. You have no idea what people go through that could give them a sense of maturity when relating to their peers. They may not be as mature as a 25yr old, but they may still be more mature than the average 18yr old.

-cp55

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 8:49:29 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		MadRabbit,
 
I believe there are some things that indicate maturity that only living long enough can teach you.  The biggest thing I see here are those who have no basic people skills.  Most of their time is seeing how kewl they can be..how any piercings or tattoos they acquire.  They simply think identifying as being a submissive or a dominant personality to be enough.  How does one recognize red flag people or situations?  By interacting with them over a period of time in depth.  Just because someone "plays a lot" is nothing.
 
Using your situation as an example, how will your interactions with your 18 yr old sub prepare you to deal with a more complex relationship down the road?  How would your 18 yr old submissive feel about submitting to another 18 year old Dom? 
 
I feel I'm not expressing myself well enough here.  I didn't mean for anyone to take offense.  I was trying to speak bluntly to perhaps have others of lesser years see through the eyes of this one who isn't interested in interacting with a younger submissive.  This is not an easy topic to discuss as without someone getting offended.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 3/28/2007 9:13:26 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 9:14:54 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		lotussong,

it's not the issues that you are bringing up so much that personally offended me. it's the language you're using and the sweeping generalizations you're making. i know that there are plenty of people your age, and my dominant's age, who would not have sought an 18 year old submissive. i know that there are plenty of immature 18 year olds out there. however, mocking younger people by using the word "kewl" (which, you know, went out of style when i was about 14, and i don't know any self-respecting teenager who uses the word now), and saying things like "after all, bdsm is all about sex!" as though everyone in my age range only thinks about sex (you'd be shocked at the levels of abstinence, actually), and only thinks about bdsm in a sexual context...it's that kind of stuff that grates on my nerves.

i don't expect you care, or to change your writing or anything like that, i just thought i'd point out some of the things i personally found offensive, because i felt like they overshadowed some of the good aspects of your posts on this thread. it -is- difficult to discuss this in a way that people won't find offensive, but not impossible, in my experience.

respectfully,
annabelle.


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(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 9:17:18 PM   
curiouspet55


Posts: 133
Joined: 10/13/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I have read a few more of the posts now, and it seems there are a few main questions that need to be answered-

Does experience equal maturity?
Does experiene equal responsibility?

Just having experience does not mean that you have learned from your experiences, it doesn't mean you've grown, or matured in any way. It doesn't mean that you've had to take responsibility in any situations.

Generalizations are easy to make and are common in all aspects of life. I want to declare, though, that not all of 'younger generation' are tatooed, pierced, goth, or searching for something that will make you kewl, or looking for sex, or for a sugar daddy, or rebelling against society's standards. Some of us are here looking for our counterparts.

I do not know the extent of my submission, how big a part of me it is, what things I enjoy in that sense - I DO however know that I have those needs, and that they are an undeniable part of me. While certain bondage and S/m things are arousing, it is the desire to surrender my control that drives me. I don't desire this surrender because I don't know what to do, or I don't know how to do something, or I just want to give up all my responsibility and not thing. I want to surrender this control because I need to - why I need to is a more lengthy, personal explanation, but it is not for the "immature" reasons many on this forum have listed.

I know most people who have posted have posted about not wanting someone younger, just like some young people don't want to be with someone older. It is understandable that people want to stay within a certain age range - not necessarily because of maturity, but because of similar interests, similiar situations - most people want to mature together, rather than have to wait or instruct the other (not to say that doesn't work). You can't forget, however, that there are many older Dom/Dommes that prey on the innocence of the younger generation. For those of us who aren't here for the stupid reasons, but rather are here to learn, to have life experience, to grow and mature, it is quite difficult. Where else in society can we be accepted for these desires and needs? Most of us younger people aren't here looking to be with someone older, or younger for any case, but are looking for that special someone. Most of us want to communicate, share, and learn. Age has no factor in this exchange.

I just request that people stop judging on age alone, but on people individually. Everyone has different reasons for their actions. Obviously someone who is 50 has more experience with life than someone who is 18, and I doubt anyone could deny that. Whether the 50 yr old is more responsible, or more mature, is completely debatable and should only be looked at on an individual basis.

I apologize for the huge post.
cp55

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(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/28/2007 9:21:28 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		curiouspet, i thought you brought up some interesting issues. i also would like to echo your request that people judge based on the individual, rather than the age. if He and i had not done that, we would not be together. if i did not do that in my everyday posting and responding to emails/writing emails, i would not get to interact with some awesome people on here.

i'd also be curious to know what those of you who say that younger people cannot be mature think maturity is. if it's not responsibility, then what is it? if it's reacting to situations life has thrown at you, and a young person has had many situations thrown at them and has taken them incredibly well and grown wiser because of them, how does that make them any less mature than someone older who may have not had the same experiences or come out with the same level of understanding and self-awareness? how do you define maturity? is an irresponsible 30 year old any more mature than a responsible 18 year old simply because of the age difference?


_____________________________

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(in reply to curiouspet55)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/29/2007 3:42:26 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

MadRabbit,
 
I believe there are some things that indicate maturity that only living long enough can teach you.  The biggest thing I see here are those who have no basic people skills.  Most of their time is seeing how kewl they can be..how any piercings or tattoos they acquire.  They simply think identifying as being a submissive or a dominant personality to be enough.  How does one recognize red flag people or situations?  By interacting with them over a period of time in depth.  Just because someone "plays a lot" is nothing.
 
Using your situation as an example, how will your interactions with your 18 yr old sub prepare you to deal with a more complex relationship down the road?  How would your 18 yr old submissive feel about submitting to another 18 year old Dom? 
 
I feel I'm not expressing myself well enough here.  I didn't mean for anyone to take offense.  I was trying to speak bluntly to perhaps have others of lesser years see through the eyes of this one who isn't interested in interacting with a younger submissive.  This is not an easy topic to discuss as without someone getting offended.


More than fair and I couldnt agree more. I'm not really offended because I think its a bit silly. This debate boils down to gaps in generations and age and none of those things are anything I can change.

I undertand your point and I try to be realistic about things. In all honesty, I am very pessimistic about my relationships developing into long term, complex ones before I hit my late 20's, especially when it comes to women that are younger than me. Regardless, I like the girl and I cant let that aspect stop me from trying.

I am sure, none the less, when I hit about 50, I will be forming personal opinions similar to yours though. =)



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(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: 18 and maturity - 3/29/2007 4:35:17 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		Fast reply to no one in particular.

I've not read the entirety of this thread yet, and I'm sure I'll have even more to read once I get home from work.

But hows about engaging those of us "durn youngins" instead of patronizing us?

People in general don't like to be treated "as a child" and will generally respond better when not addressed thusly.

(edited to add)
And shoosh, I am not including those in playtime :P


< Message edited by Aine -- 3/29/2007 4:36:54 AM >

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 120
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