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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:08:52 PM

MzMia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKaton

Help me understand that. To be an exceptional slave, the person has to remove their will from the equation in deference to their owner, i.e. submit to another person's will. Without that component, how then can a person exist as a slave?

because one can submit (the act) without being "a" submissive. when a cop pulls you over and asks to see your license and you hand it over, you are submitting to his will. but that does not make you a submissive person. slaves who are not submissive by nature make the choice to submit to the will of their Owner. it could be out of admiration, respect, love, whatever. but they are not driven by a need an instinct to serve and please another, as one with a submissive nature would be.

Bingo, it is natural deep down, to the core of who and what you are.
Usually, you have no other choice and there is no turning back.
I "discovered" this lifestyle about 5 years ago, but you can ask anyone that has known
me all my life if I am a Dominant person. The answer would be YES.
You can ask people that knew me from 30 years ago.
Like I love to say "From the womb to the tomb."

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:09:10 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

because one can submit (the act) without being "a" submissive. when a cop pulls you over and asks to see your license and you hand it over, you are submitting to his will. but that does not make you a submissive person. slaves who are not submissive by nature make the choice to submit to the will of their Owner. it could be out of admiration, respect, love, whatever. but they are not driven by a need an instinct to serve and please another, as one with a submissive nature would be.

Don't mind me, I am separating the wheat from the bread right now. Slavery, in some instances, is simply a matter of choice that may (or may not) have any bearing on a person's submissiveness. Gotcha.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:15:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Suleiman

I disagree. To be an exceptional slave, it must be an act of will. You can not serve anyone if you have no will of your own. An exceptional slave serves out of love, out of loyalty, out of a driving inner need to serve - not because you told them to.

I freely admit that which I do not know and this is one topic new to me (it's nice to still be able to learn after all this time). I originally asked this question because I see I have a much different situation on my hands than I had originally thought. I need to make sure I have a clear understanding and this conversation is part of my refocus so I can address it properly and appropriately. Thank you.

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....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:25:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Bingo, it is natural deep down, to the core of who and what you are.
Usually, you have no other choice and there is no turning back.
I "discovered" this lifestyle about 5 years ago, but you can ask anyone that has known
me all my life if I am a Dominant person. The answer would be YES.
You can ask people that knew me from 30 years ago.
Like I love to say "From the womb to the tomb."

so true MzMia. for some of us, we just are, it seems to be the way we have been wired from birth. this is what i personally define as "natural" submission or Dominance. however as you said, it's not a matter of being superior to or better than anyone else. more often than not having such a one-way nature adds many hurdles and much pain and trauma in one's life. being submissive as a child and well into my teenage years led me to be abused in the most horrific of ways at times, and back then i used to wish with all my soul that i could just be different, be "normal." if there were a magic pill i could have swallowed to make my submissive nature go away, i would have happily done so. so no it's certainly not a boast. but there is a difference between one who is a natural submissive, or natural Dominant, and one who consciously makes the choice to be so.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:34:34 PM

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I have never understood why so many insist "a thing is not possible"..........I find a strange thing in myself. Some sort of weird empathy that can find the feelings of roots and desires in others. It can be very...different to try and bend one's own mind into seeking other cores. And is one reason I need to be careful with whom I associate.

I'm not really entirely sure of my own nature. I only know how I *feel*. So when someone pops up a label, I ignore that.

And I just ask them, "But how does that feel?"

And how a persons feels-just is.

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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:38:13 PM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I have never understood why so many insist "a thing is not possible"..........I find a strange thing in myself. Some sort of weird empathy that can find the feelings of roots and desires in others. It can be very...different to try and bend one's own mind into seeking other cores. And is one reason I need to be careful with whom I associate.

I'm not really entirely sure of my own nature. I only know how I *feel*. So when someone pops up a label, I ignore that.

And I just ask them, "But how does that feel?"

And how a persons feels-just is.

Most people are really just not accepting, even on here.

I have been "different" all my life, so I think many of us get used to it.

I have found many people are just not "comfortable" with labels that other people create that
THEY don't agree with or believe in.

It is unfortunate but that is that hard reality of life.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 6/4/2008 10:39:01 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to Leatherist)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/4/2008 10:41:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I have never understood why so many insist "a thing is not possible"..........I find a strange thing in myself. Some sort of weird empathy that can find the feelings of roots and desires in others. It can be very...different to try and bend one's own mind into seeking other cores. And is one reason I need to be careful with whom I associate.

I'm not really entirely sure of my own nature. I only know how I *feel*. So when someone pops up a label, I ignore that.

And I just ask them, "But how does that feel?"

And how a persons feels-just is.

Most people are really just not accepting, even on here.

I have been "different" all my life, so I think many of us get used to it.

I have found many people are just not "comfortable" with labels that other people create that
THEY don't agree with or believe in.

It is unfortunate but that is that hard reality of life.

Labels are meaningless with people, we are creatures in a constant state of flux. The one moment that we find absolute consistency is our death.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/5/2008 5:10:07 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
In the end, isn't it all semantics?

Only for people who use words as fantasy playtoys, instead of connecting them to the real lives of real people.

But, I do believe the words are true.
I DO believe some people are "natural slaves" and "Natural Dominants".

I said that, for those that get their panties in a bunch over it.
There are many things in life, I don't agree with or believe, but I don't usually go on and on, over
terms or things I don't believe in.
Many here, especially the "open minded" go fucking nuts because people view things in a different manner.
What is that all about?

MzMia,

This thread might be more productive if you try to read the replies and understand the issue as opposed to just repeating the same thing over and over again.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MzMia)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/5/2008 9:59:10 AM

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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

a natural submissive does not have to be matched with the right and true Dominant for her in order to submit, a natural submissive simply submits.

This is true for me. For me, it's more about the service and submission than it is about the sex and kink. Of course, having a combination of those is ideal. But, when having to choose between the two, being in a service-only (no BD/SM or sex) relationship is much more fulfilling and less frustrating, to me, than being in a relationship with kinky sex and no or, not enough, service and submission.

For me to feel absolutely content in a long term relationship, i need a combination of being in a service role, being under the absolute control of another (who i admire, respect, trust, and like), and having a healthy dose of BD/SM and sex.

But, finding someone, who 1) wants all these things, also and, 2) wants them with me and, 3) is ready and available to have this sort of relationship with me, isn't that easy.

And, during the long stretches of time when i was unable to be in the sort of relationship that would satisfy all of these elements, i have either a) chose to be alone or, 2) gone into service-only relationships, with no D/s element, other than as a servant to a boss, and without any BD/SM or sex and with men, who were nice enough and didn't drink or smoke but, who i really had no emotional connection to.

While i missed having sex (i'm just not one who goes in for casual sex or casual BD/SM play), these relationships fulfilled the vitally important need in me to be a servant.

If not for my sex drive and desire for S&M, i would probably be content to remain in that service-only type of relationship for the rest of my life. But, the need for kinky sex and a good beating from time to time, made me want to keep looking for more.

The few relationships i had, over the years, that gave me BD/SM and sex but, lacked the service element or the control element (other than during sex) always left me feeling emotionally empty and frustrated, to the point where i had to end them. Even being the submissive wife to a kinky, polyamorous, Dominant man, left me feeling frustrated and unfulfilled, because he didn't want to own me and he let me do what i want most of the time (too much of the time) and didn't use me as his servant.

The need to be in a service role, even if it was without sex, was more important to me and i was more content in those situations than in the other.

Finally, i was able to find the whole package with my Master. This (24/7, TPE, live-in) relationship is my last because it provides me with all of the elements that i need to have,in order to feel fully content and satisfied.

Now, i get the kink and the sex that i enjoy but, most importantly, i am under the absolute control of my Master and at His service, round the clock. And, that was the missing element in all of my previous relationships.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

(in reply to daddysprop247)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/5/2008 10:55:08 AM

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How can a natural slave exist? Give it some thought people. Do you walk up to someone and say you are my natural slave. Slaves were kidnapped. Whats natural about that. Call it like it is. You can have a natural servant. You either have submissives or servants.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/5/2008 2:29:15 PM

MzMia

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Thank you slavejoy for your usual and well thought out post.
I think you make your point very well.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/5/2008 4:11:25 PM

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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

How can a natural slave exist? Give it some thought people. Do you walk up to someone and say you are my natural slave. Slaves were kidnapped. Whats natural about that. Call it like it is. You can have a natural servant. You either have submissives or servants.

i do believe that there are people who feel submissive, at least within certain situations, without ever knowing why or where or how they came to feel that way. They just know that they are and, they just feel that way 'naturally'. The same with people who feel they are a servant, 'naturally'.

But, it's not true that slaves are always kidnapped. Many people, in today's world, are born into slavery, within a slave culture and, even when the laws of the land have been changed to allow them to leave, they choose to remain in slavery.

Others, enter into slavery, of their own free will, although certainly under pressures from their circumstances and very poor station in life, in order to secure a loan by offering themself as a means to pay it off. No one forces them into slavery. It's a choice they make, even though you could say that life forced it on them.

These forms of slavery may be 'unnatural' to us but, they are very real and considered natural by many people, in other cultures.

Slavery by descent is where people are either born into a slave class or are from a 'group' that society views as suited to being used as slave labour.

Bonded labour – or debt bondage – affects millions of people around the world. They receive basic food and shelter as 'payment' for their work, but may never pay off the loan, which can be passed down for generations. A person becomes a bonded labourer when his or her labour is demanded as a means of repayment for a loan.
[Source: Anti-Slavery International, http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/modern.htm]

joy
Owned servant of Master David

(in reply to Dnomyar)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/6/2008 5:12:53 AM

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Come on. Born into slavery. How can you be born into slavery when your parents were forced into it. You were born free. You were put into slavery.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/6/2008 8:17:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Come on. Born into slavery. How can you be born into slavery when your parents were forced into it. You were born free. You were put into slavery.

Sticking to the literal definition of "slavery" you are entirely correct.

But as I've learned, BDSM is the Bizzaro World of sexuality. Up is down, Left is right. "Normal" is not and so-on. So in THIS world, the literal definition of the word is not necessarily how it is implemented and cannot be applied using the same...*gasp* vanilla standards.

"Slavery" is not a concept I espouse in my normal dealings...lmao...however, in the context of THIS lifestyle, I somehow can wrap my mind around it as a sexual concept.

_____________________________

....before me there was none; after me there shall be no more...

(in reply to Dnomyar)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/6/2008 4:07:49 PM

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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Come on. Born into slavery. How can you be born into slavery when your parents were forced into it. You were born free. You were put into slavery.

This isn't my opinion. This is well documented by many different sources. And, i'm not talking about a group of 'kink-based', BD/SM, "voluntary erotic slaves", which i include myself in. i am talking about babies born to slaves, who never know anything other than being the property of another.

SLAVERY IN MAURITANIA
By Pascal Fletcher -- Mar 21, 2007
NOUAKCHOTT (Reuters) - They do not wear chains, nor are they branded with the mark of their masters, but slaves still exist in Mauritania.

"I was born a slave. All my family, all my ancestors were slaves of that group. My aunt, my brothers are still slaves with them," he said with lowered gaze.
http://www.cwo.com/~lucumi/mauritania2.html

In 1994, Amnesty International claimed that 90,000 Blacks still live as "property" of their master. They further estimated that some 300,000 freed slaves continued to serve their former masters because of psychological or economic dependence.
http://www.afrol.com/articles/17518

This is the personal story of a Mauritanian slave originally published in National Geographic Magazine.
My name is Salma. I was born a slave in Mauritania in 1956. My parents were slaves, and their parents were slaves of the same family.

Jaballah Mint Mohamed was born around 1978 - she doesn't know where or when exactly, as she is a slave. She was born as the property of the Ehel Bejidaine family who live in southwestern Mauritania.
http://slave-free-mauritania.org/testimony.aspx

Human rights groups claim that the number of chattel slaves in Mauritania is as high as 600,000 out of 3.1 million, i.e. 15% to 20% of the population are inheritable property! Mauritania is one of the few countries in the world where slavery continues as a common social practice.

"We have achieved what the American plantation owners dreamed of - the breeding of perfectly submissive slaves." Boubakar Messaoud, founder of SOS Slaves

In August 2007, the new democratic government of Mauritania passed a bill criminalizing slavery. The laws this time around are stronger, yet many acknowledge that slavery is so embedded in Mauritanian society that legal change alone will not stop the practice.
http://slave-free-mauritania.org/default.aspx

joy
Owned (voluntarily) servant of Master David

(in reply to Dnomyar)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/8/2008 6:09:59 AM

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i am the property of Fredpbear. i was never submissive to any man before Him. if anything it didnt take much to have them on ther knees . the moment we met i was His. He has stated i dont have the option of release. i will always be collared to Him.
i had no problems falling into my new role. so natural that Master stated that sometimes He would forget how new i was to this. my training was more about serving him particularly ,not about being a slave.
a natural slave for life . collared forever.

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RE: Natural Slavery - 6/8/2008 10:57:30 AM

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Some people seem to find it very difficult to accept even the possibility of something existing that is foreign to their way of thinking.

Thank you, favesclava, for sharing your story with us. You are a beautiful example of how those of us, born in "The Land of the Free", can still fulfill our natural tendency for being a slave, in a positive way. It doesn't always have to be about chains and markings and force and brutality to be considered 'true' slavery.

Some of us are fortunate enough to be able to find our true and natural place in this world, with The One, who we were made to serve, and it's a wonderful feeling and it's the easiest thing we have ever done. As you said, we just fall into it, like a duckling to water.

And, even though there are those who can't or won't believe such a thing is even possible, that doesn't change the fact that we are living our lives the way we feel is right for us, as the 'natural slave' to another.

joy
Owned servant of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: favesclava

i had no problems falling into my new role. so natural that Master stated that sometimes He would forget how new i was to this. my training was more about serving him particularly ,not about being a slave.
a natural slave for life . collared forever.

(in reply to favesclava)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/9/2008 6:24:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Some people seem to find it very difficult to accept even the possibility of something existing that is foreign to their way of thinking.

I guess the idea that Pigs can fly is very difficult for some to believe in.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to slavegirljoy)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/9/2008 7:04:32 AM

Posts: 1207
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From: North Carolina, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

Some people seem to find it very difficult to accept even the possibility of something existing that is foreign to their way of thinking.

I guess the idea that Pigs can fly is very difficult for some to believe in.

Yes it is and so is the idea that Hell will freeze over. But, why would anyone want a pig to fly?

joy
Owned servant of Master David

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Natural Slavery - 6/10/2008 4:33:55 AM

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I have a very primal and organic desire to be submissive to someone that I believe deserves my submission. In that case, my submission is as natural as breathing. However, if you met me when I am in my professional mode, I seem very naturally dominate, because I am used to being the boss and knowing how to get things done in that area. I have many many times been refered to as a ball buster in my career. However, my Papa finds it hilairious because I bring absolutly none of that home with me. I don't feel the need to be in charge with him because I know that he is making decisions based on what is best for our family. So I gladly let him be the boss because it feels right. Perhaps that has something to do with it also. Your girls may not react the same way to all. If you told any of my exes that I am submissive, they would all laugh at you, But with Papa, I am a lovely example of devoted submission.

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(in reply to MadRabbit)

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