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RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:23:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I would reply to your responses to my post, but I don't feel like investing energy only to have it join the downward descent on this spiral of negativity and hopelessness you seem to be caught on.

I see only two options...

One... the person is on a downward spiral and is seriously depressed and suicide to himslef or abuse to another is very likely possibility...

Two.. he is an attention whore for the negative and this is all but a joke to him.

To be honest.. I am not so sure which one it is.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:24:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
Just take sometime off and catch your breathe. As long as it takes.

I'm trying to, but I'm doing it wrong.

And damnit, I'm a worthwhile person. I can do amazing things. I'm not trying to act like I'm any cooler than anyone else, or more special, or more deserving... I just feel frustrated that I can't get what I want, and I'm trying to figure out better ways of achieving my goals. And I'm sorry that some of the suggestions that have been made aren't in a direction that I want to go, but I'm not just giving up, and I'm not just throwing out excuses. And I've never intentionally harmed anyone and I don't intend to start. So why do I feel like I'm such a piece of shit for even wanting this, or even wanting to talk to you guys about it? What the hell did I do wrong?

(in reply to Icarys)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:25:33 PM

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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

And work on some self esteem, because I would guess that's your number 1 biggest problem in attracting a mate.

How do people do that, usually?

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:26:52 PM

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From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
* I can take people with high potential and make them awesome. I.e., I can take people in the top 10% and put them in the top 1%.

People with high potential for what? In the top 10% of what?

By the way, you might want to think about the negativity of the phrase "lowering your standards" and instead consider the value of "adjusting your standards". I am not of a lower standard because I don't fit your criteria; I am of a different standard. Perhaps you won't come across as so judgmental if you adjust your thinking.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:27:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
And damnit, I'm a worthwhile person. I can do amazing things. I'm not trying to act like I'm any cooler than anyone else, or more special, or more deserving... I just feel frustrated that I can't get what I want, and I'm trying to figure out better ways of achieving my goals. And I'm sorry that some of the suggestions that have been made aren't in a direction that I want to go, but I'm not just giving up, and I'm not just throwing out excuses. And I've never intentionally harmed anyone and I don't intend to start. So why do I feel like I'm such a piece of shit for even wanting this, or even wanting to talk to you guys about it? What the hell did I do wrong?

Well, I am going with option One at this point, KOM.

Iald, I think you REALLY need to get off the Internet and go and talk to someone in real time, preferably a counselor of some kind.

I, for one, am not going to give you the pity party or sympathy you are looking for.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:29:30 PM

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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

By the way, you might want to think about the negativity of the phrase "lowering your standards" and instead consider the value of "adjusting your standards". I am not of a lower standard because I don't fit your criteria; I am of a different standard. Perhaps you won't come across as so judgmental if you adjust your thinking.

I'm not the one that originally used the term "lower your standards"; that's the phrase as it was presented to me, and I mentioned the same objection. Several people that I've been talking to as of late have been pushing the idea that there *IS* a hierarchy, and I've been listening to them because they're the ones that seem successful at this sort of thing (although, admittedly, when I press them for specifics on how *I* can succeed they still retort with the 'why the hell would we tell you?' line). So I think I'm projecting and subsuming some aspects of this that aren't exactly who I am naturally. I don't know which way to go next.

(in reply to CalifChick)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:31:03 PM

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From: NYC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

And damnit, I'm a worthwhile person. I can do amazing things. I'm not trying to act like I'm any cooler than anyone else, or more special, or more deserving... I just feel frustrated that I can't get what I want,

Who, other than a child, talks of 'wants'?

and I'm trying to figure out better ways of achieving my goals. And I'm sorry that some of the suggestions that have been made aren't in a direction that I want to go,
So, you DO have something specific you want us to tell you...

but I'm not just giving up, and I'm not just throwing out excuses. And I've never intentionally harmed anyone and I don't intend to start. So why do I feel like I'm such a piece of shit for even wanting this, or even wanting to talk to you guys about it? What the hell did I do wrong?

This is starting to seem more and more like a self esteem issue. I think most people have, at some time or another, been there. It is well worth ‘working’ on your self. What you project now is, at it’s very core, the antithesis of ‘attractive’ in terms of someone wanting to ‘be’ with you (however and what ever you define that as).

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:32:27 PM

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Ialdaboath, the best advice you are getting here is from MadRabbit, who is also a very young, very intelligent male Dom and in the best position to understand you.

i suggest you stop coming up with upteen whiny reasons why nothing will work, swallow your (all too large) pride, reread MadRabbits advice and do your damned best to find a way to make it work for you.

you are in need of a major attitude adjustment, and need to get out of a rut.

Maybe you could ask s suitable Dominant for some mentoring, and take it really seriously. Find a Dominant man or other person of character that you can admire and ask for some mentoring, and submit to it.

your biggest problem is your large amount of creativity and intelligence. it is making things far more complicated for you than they need to be. You have to learn a little humility and realize that someone could actually know more than you do.

One other tidbit i read a long time ago which might be helpful to you. I read that men find more physical and mental 'types' of women attractive the older they get, because having a positive experience with a 'new' type of woman 'adds' her to his list of women types he finds attractive.

Perhaps by being too rigid in what you consider suitable, you are preventing that natural growth in what you find attractive.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:34:46 PM

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From: DC Metro area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

...and that is really the crux of your problem. because of your particular interests and desires, and the things that you need and require of a submissive, it will be mighty difficult to find someone who is willing to be that for you without the security of a meaningful committed relationship. it would be a bit like me doing the things i do for my Master and living the life that i do, without being his property or even his committed submissive. it would just make little sense. what higher purpose or meaning would it all have?

personally, though they may seem extreme to some, i see nothing wrong with your particular stated interests. i would gladly lose 20 lbs (becoming anorexic by medical standards), maximize my flexibility, retain a youthful appearance, etc...for my Master. but in the name of kink? i'm just not that kinky.

Perhaps, then, I'm coming across as completely wrong.

I WANT property. I WANT committed submissives. I just don't want property that has to be paid for with "twue wuv". I don't want committed submissives that want to get married and have hundreds of my babies. I don't want people who want a "deep communion of souls". I want people who want to be owned, and used, and turned into works of art. I want people who want to be turned into a testament to my power and creativity. I'm just sick of all that "you're The One" crap. I want committed, mutually beneficial relationships based around having fun and doing stuff that don't get into all of that "If he really loved me, he'd X" bullshit, or worse - the "if I really loved him, I'd X. (months later) Wow, X really hurts! Damn him for making me think I loved him enough to do X!".

well now you're singing a different tune, and a more palatable one. you want commitment. you want a meaningful relationship. you want property. you just don't want the love stuff. maybe try expressing that a bit better in your profile, or whatever means you're using to meet submissives. perhaps clarify that you are looking for a slave to use and mold to your liking...that you do not wish to love or be loved by a slave, but are looking for no less devotion or commitment...and yes, even fun.

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:34:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Well, I am going with option One at this point, KOM.

that is the way I am leaning as well... but only slightly

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:35:19 PM

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Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I, for one, am not going to give you the pity party or sympathy you are looking for.

How about sympathy without pity? How about just some simple one-to-one respect? Is it possible that I'm not doing this out of whining, but I'm actually trying to figure out how to better serve my needs? Is it possible that it's *okay* for me to want what I want, and it's *okay* for me to seperate my emotional/social needs from my sexual ones? Is it possible, maybe, that I'm actually being completely straight-forward with all my questions and responses in this thread? That what I actually, in fact, want is to understand how to adjust my standards so that I can enjoy people that are available, instead of pining for people who aren't? Yes, I've been hurt recently, and yes, I'm raw for that, and yes, that's why I don't want to do the whole soulmate thing right now, but maybe just this once that's okay? Maybe there doesn't need to be any kind of judgement on my suitability for dating or my dangerousness or whether I deserve to be here or not? I've answered plenty of people's questions on these forums in ways that they appreciated. I've interacted with plenty of you in positive and useful ways for *both* of us. Why does this have to turn sour now? I want to understand things and I want to adjust who I am and I want to serve my needs better, and so I'm asking for advice. I'm not asking for personal criticism, but if that's helpful for framing the advice, I'll gladly take it. But this? This feels stupid, and not worth my time. And I'd rather not be driven away from the conversation we *could* be having because I'm making some bad word-choices, or because I've built a bad reputation here. So I'm more than willing to understand and work on those word-choices and that social image, if people are willing to help me with it. And then we can get back to helping each other understand all this weird "life" stuff.

Please?

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:36:34 PM

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From where I sit, it is because it is how you present yourself; clearly, you are one of those people who begs for advice but never actually listens. Also, just b/c someone has found what THEY are looking for, makes them no more an expert on what you are looking for. I like scenes that some would find extreme, others find common, but, if I am looking for advise on, let's say, forced bi it will do me little good to go to someone who found the perfect submissive for cross dressing- totally different scenes, totally different sets of advice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

*snip*
when I press them for specifics on how *I* can succeed they still retort with the 'why the hell would we tell you?' line). *snip*

edited cause the quoting was all messed up.

< Message edited by LadyLupineNYC -- 9/21/2008 3:39:25 PM >

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:38:07 PM

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Ialda YOU need to go to counsling, with someone who can HONESTLY help you. We are a message board, but you need more then words on a screen on the internet. They can help you, they have heard it all before, they wont run or talk to you in a shameful way about it. They can help you adjust, we can only do so much.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:41:19 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

Things I am willing to offer:

* I can take people with high potential and make them awesome. I.e., I can take people in the top 10% and put them in the top 1%. If afterwards they want nothing to do with me because they can get much, much better, I can understand this and hold no ill-will.

* I can take people who are awesome and produce interesting and creative works of art. I am hoping to find people for whom that is a worthy goal in and of itself.

* I can custom-design clothing, gear and equipment to accentuate and show off these talents.

What else should I be offering? Money? Power? True Love?

Yes, but first they have to agree that you're worth spending time with rather than all the other guys they have available, then they have to agree that your vision of art is worth something to them, too. Then you're surprised that there's no one out there for you. Big deal, you can custom-design clothing, equipment and gear. So can I. So can lots of people on CM. Again, if you have little to offer, why should you get much in return? Your responses indicate that you really don't want any help, so why you bother posting is beyond me, but I appreciate that you are because at least it's providing me a diversion from having to do my laundry.

Edited to add: I agree with the others. Get counseling. Now.

< Message edited by Venatrix -- 9/21/2008 3:45:49 PM >

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:43:37 PM

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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC

From where I sit, it is because it is how you present yourself; clearly, you are one of those people who begs for advice but never actually listens. Also, just b/c someone has found what THEY are looking for, makes them no more an expert on what you are looking for. I like scenes that some would find extreme, others find common, but, if I am looking for advise on, let's say, forced bi it will do me little good to go to someone who found the perfect submissive for cross dressing- totally different scenes, totally different sets of advice.

I'm sorry; I didn't want to not listen, but the advice I received was somewhat hard to listen to. This might be emotional reactivity on my part, but I felt like a lot of the advice I was receiving was, "of course you aren't getting what you want, what you want SUCKS!".

(in reply to LadyLupineNYC)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:45:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I, for one, am not going to give you the pity party or sympathy you are looking for.

How about sympathy without pity? How about just some simple one-to-one respect? Is it possible that I'm not doing this out of whining, but I'm actually trying to figure out how to better serve my needs? Is it possible that it's *okay* for me to want what I want, and it's *okay* for me to seperate my emotional/social needs from my sexual ones? Is it possible, maybe, that I'm actually being completely straight-forward with all my questions and responses in this thread? That what I actually, in fact, want is to understand how to adjust my standards so that I can enjoy people that are available, instead of pining for people who aren't? Yes, I've been hurt recently, and yes, I'm raw for that, and yes, that's why I don't want to do the whole soulmate thing right now, but maybe just this once that's okay? Maybe there doesn't need to be any kind of judgement on my suitability for dating or my dangerousness or whether I deserve to be here or not? I've answered plenty of people's questions on these forums in ways that they appreciated. I've interacted with plenty of you in positive and useful ways for *both* of us. Why does this have to turn sour now? I want to understand things and I want to adjust who I am and I want to serve my needs better, and so I'm asking for advice. I'm not asking for personal criticism, but if that's helpful for framing the advice, I'll gladly take it. But this? This feels stupid, and not worth my time. And I'd rather not be driven away from the conversation we *could* be having because I'm making some bad word-choices, or because I've built a bad reputation here. So I'm more than willing to understand and work on those word-choices and that social image, if people are willing to help me with it. And then we can get back to helping each other understand all this weird "life" stuff.

Please?

Because your not asking for advice. Your begging for validation. Your putting the decision of "who you are" in the hands of other people. Your looking for people to tell you "who you NEED to be and NEED to do" in order to find someone.

I'm not gonna give it to you, because your the only one who can make you happy. If your self image, personal happiness, and self esteem are so caught up on the notion of "being with someone" RIGHT NOW, then that is a red flag that you SHOULD not be with ANYONE.

Why? It's called co-dependance.

Hell, the fact that your trying to base your self image off the opinions of others is an even bigger red flag.

Get off the Net and go talk to a counselor. It's tough love.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Ialdabaoth)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:45:45 PM

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From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix
Yes, but first they have to agree that you're worth spending time with rather than all the other guys they have available, then they have to agree that your vision of art is worth something to them, too. Then you're surprised that there's no one out there for you. Big deal, you can custom-design clothing, equipment and gear. So can I. So can lots of people on CM. Again, if you have little to offer, why should you get much in return? Your responses indicate that you really don't want any help, so why you bother posting is beyond me, but I appreciate that you are because at least it's providing me a diversion from having to do my laundry.

So I guess, then, that rather than wishing I had more to offer, I need to have more things that I can offer. That's... often difficult.

So, now it sinks in: I'm actually not worthy of what I want; there are plenty of much, much cooler people than me that want it, and not enough of it to go around, so of course they get it first.

(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:45:47 PM

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This isn't actually advice as much as something to think about.

I have a friend who (appears to be) just like you.
He has very precise ideas of the person he will spend his life with. He wants to find the perfect girl with a perfect balance of vanilla interests and kink, the right looks and the right background. And she has to be compatible to perfection with him or be willing to change to fit his ideal.

The closest he has found to that perfect woman is an exclusive call girl who has no interest in him that way.

He's recently taken to lower his standards a little bit, but as I understand its not all a dance on roses. She is constantly weighed and measured to his image of perfection he painted on her, and she is just trying to live with it because she loves him.

I really hope for his sake that he finds that perfect girl one day, but he is in for a long long wait.

Probably a longer wait than his outlook on the future can accept, waht with starting a family and all.

I just cant shake the feeling that if he keeps up his compromise he will not be happy in the end, and that if he gives up on this girl and decides to look for his ideal woman his wait will be so long and fruitless that he will not be happy in the end.

Anyway, have to stop the deep thinking before I drown.
Good luck, either way,

SB

(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:47:22 PM

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Joined: 8/26/2008
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Hmm

This seems like a job for Captain Clarity!

Now if only I could find him...

To be a little bit more helpful, I'm going to dissect some things and see if I get things right...

Looking into your journal entry and reading (and re-reading twice) I think I understand your desire in a partner.

You're looking for someone who is willing to be a 'loveless' sex slave, and your fetish model, right?

Regardless of what I think, that doesn't seem to be quite so unrealistic. I mean, I understand that there will be a lot of people who won't see the point, but really these accusations of your desires/standards being 'unrealistic' are a little silly.

What they are is very niche. There's nothing WRONG with that, you just need to understand that (which you seem to do quite admirably).

Now, the problem that you're stumbling across is that no one is fulfilling these desires, correct?

I'm a big proponent for NOT settling for something that you want, ever (which is what lowering standards does in my opinion). That said, however, would it be possible to find fulfillment through the gratification of your desires through different people?

That is to say... finding different people, not one person, who will collectively fulfill your desires.

I'm not sure if this is possible, especially considering your admission that it's a fetish, not a kink, but maybe some more info on exactly what the fetish is would be helpful in ruminating over a possible solution.

I completely understand the idea of not wanting a committed relationship with love or a 'communion of two souls' as the central focus, and this doesn't seem like it's completely out of the realm of possibility... but the intensity of what you're looking for will (usually) breed feelings of love, affection, and desire to connect on a different level. It's going to take a good, LONG time to find someone who wants the same thing as you, from the other side, and that's going to be true no matter how proactive you are about looking. It's also going to be much more unlikely to find someone who, despite themselves, won't come to form a deep emotional attachment. Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense... and please keep in mind that I'm not trying to be patronizing, by any means! :D This was just my thought process.

EDIT: Why did I say sorry?

Also, two pages were posted while I wrote this O.o However, I still stand by my statements/questions/suggestions.

< Message edited by aravain -- 9/21/2008 4:04:18 PM >

(in reply to Venatrix)

RE: "Just lower your standards" - 9/21/2008 3:48:31 PM

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassyBird
I just cant shake the feeling that if he keeps up his compromise he will not be happy in the end, and that if he gives up on this girl and decides to look for his ideal woman his wait will be so long and fruitless that he will not be happy in the end.

That's... pretty much how I feel about the situation, which is why I'm scrabbling at ideas. But I feel like this is just more diversion into feeling bad. Is there any way I can come at this from another angle, to get back to the 'practical advice' side of things?

I'm really sorry if I've made this thread go south.

(in reply to SassyBird)

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