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RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 3:47:04 PM

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptainsPet

Hey, you can retract your claws, now. I had clear evidence that this guy lied. I didn't say I still wanted to be with him. What did I want to convince myself of, exactly, according to you? And the "test" was the result of listening to my inner judgement and intuition. I don't think I asked for a pat on the back, or anything else, except people's opinion on a question.

This goes from bad, to worse to just absolutely outright stupid. You did not want to be with him, yet you still wanted the background check so you could confirm your suspicions? How bloody lame can you get? "Hi, you lied to me and I do not trust you anymore nor want to be with you... But could I still be a nosy so and so and delve into your past to make sure I made the right decision?"

Mind games. Childish play. Nothing more. It sounds more and more to Me like he made a darn good decision the more I read.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 1/27/2006 3:51:36 PM >

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to CaptainsPet)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 3:52:56 PM

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne
No, it does not mean that all lies are bad. Some are necessary. But I would still not label them as major or minor. They are still lies.

Ooh something one which Icey and I disagree, this could be interesting

(More likely we will just agree to differ, but lets see)

To me, lies are bad full stop.
Someone starts telling a small lie, to protect that lie they all too often have to tell a larger one if it looks like the first maybe found out. Having told a couple it is easier to justify more lies, bigger lies.

Even if they are not found out the lier knows and that undermines trust in the relationship, even trust in the other person... "If I'm lieing, then so might he be"

Then of course what happens to trust when all these lies start unravelling?

Some may say there is no alternative. There is!
Personaly I don't keep many secrets within a long term relationship, I haven't found a need to so far at least. Any 'secrets' are usualy things friends have told me in confidence and if I am asked about them I explain that I can not say because it would breach a confidence. Even friends know me well enough to trust me on that, let alone any partner I've had.

At times I might not volenteer information, or as I say, if asked will explain I can't give it, but I see no need to lie about it and as such, for all the other faults past partners my choose to paint me with, being dishonest or untrustworthy isn't one of them.

Honesty and Trust in the relationship are worth avoiding even 'convenient' lies for.
I don't see ANY lies as "necessary"!

(in reply to IceyOne)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 4:04:59 PM

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Joined: 1/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

quote:

mmmmmm really? so... does that mean all lies are bad?

No, it does not mean that all lies are bad. Some are necessary. But I would still not label them as major or minor. They are still lies.

ummmmm Why not?

Why would I not label one lesser or more?

Well...because no matter what the lie was intended for, it is still just that...an attempt to be deceitful. The intentions behind the lie may be different; ie, to hide something or to appease someone...but it's still deception. I fail to see how putting a label on it ( major, minor, big, little ) changes that. I am not trying to argue that the intentions behind it are so horrible that they both deserve the same classification...only that I can not see where the labeling would be necessary...

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 4:56:58 PM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

Well...because no matter what the lie was intended for, it is still just that...an attempt to be deceitful. The intentions behind the lie may be different; ie, to hide something or to appease someone...but it's still deception. I fail to see how putting a label on it ( major, minor, big, little ) changes that. I am not trying to argue that the intentions behind it are so horrible that they both deserve the same classification...only that I can not see where the labeling would be necessary...[/color]

mmmmm ok... but i am not sure how the label... (minor or major) changes the fact that it is decietful or not. I agree that a lie in of itself is a deception l... and the motivation of the lie is another issue all together. However, seems the label can be used to reflect the motivation of the lie... IE White Lie as compared to a Major Lie. I don't see how the label actually changes the fact that deception is occuring.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to IceyOne)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 5:15:23 PM

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

However, seems the label can be used to reflect the motivation of the lie... IE White Lie as compared to a Major Lie.

Yes, I will not argue that point...a label could be used to reflect the motivation. But what may be a white lie to you, may be a major lie to the person you lied to. How would the label be of use then? How could one distinguish between the two if the idea of deception is so strong that one could not seperate the two? ( geesh, I am not even sure that made sense)

And no, I am not trying to be argumentative to the point of being insulting. I have had others bring this up with me before, and I still have a hard time understanding why someone would put a label on a lie...so this is asked in all seriousness and curiosity.

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 6:24:12 PM

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

quote:

However, seems the label can be used to reflect the motivation of the lie... IE White Lie as compared to a Major Lie.

Yes, I will not argue that point...a label could be used to reflect the motivation. But what may be a white lie to you, may be a major lie to the person you lied to. How would the label be of use then? How could one distinguish between the two if the idea of deception is so strong that one could not seperate the two? ( geesh, I am not even sure that made sense)

And no, I am not trying to be argumentative to the point of being insulting. I have had others bring this up with me before, and I still have a hard time understanding why someone would put a label on a lie...so this is asked in all seriousness and curiosity.

Because the label is for myself first and not just for another.... labeling the lie as minor , major etc I am differentiating the types of lies and the motivation between them. By making the difference, I am putting justifications to when a lie might be acceptable as compared to when it is not. I am expressing to myself the lines of acceptablity to myself. Thru interaction with another, I can begin to communicate these differentations, not that it will be clear all the time... but without labels that reflecting motivations as well if a level of seriousness to a particular deception the giving of examples of lies wouldn't be of much use, because it is just a lie without the label. We catergorizes things. white lie, minor lie, major lie.. brutal lie, good lie whatever... they are all deceptions.. but by categorizies and putting in examples to the different groups we can better appreciate acceptable lies compare to the unacceptable to ourselves and others.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to IceyOne)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 7:16:42 PM

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

G'day KoM,

If I am at the stage of discussions which may lead to a collar, a girl can ask me anything you want and I will answer her as best as I can. However she will need to understand that there are areas in which I cannot ~ nay will not answer. Pertaining to those areas, she will be told gently to back off and given a general explanation as to why. (Even Lady Neets has learned not to try digging in some areas). If the girl cannot accept that then there is no future for is in any relationship. This can have adverse affects in other relationships if the one who was told to back off then decides to fantasize about things and then starts pissing in the ears of others on your local scene. I then ask:

Perhaps a lie would have been better?

Is a lie given to protect yourself from unnecessary inquisitiveness an acceptable alternative to the possibility of being ostracized by others in your group so you become a loner and live your lifestyle alone?

I guess that is for each person to decide.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 7:33:02 PM

submissivemiss38

Posts: 40
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: Ottawa ,Ontario
Status: offline

I am new at this ; so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt......but if you ask the right questions .....you can figure out people pretty quickly.

_____________________________

From Mary in Ottawa..........

(in reply to IronBear)

RE: Background Check - 1/27/2006 10:38:32 PM

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivemiss38

I am new at this ; so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt......but if you ask the right questions .....you can figure out people pretty quickly.

First, welcome to the lifestyle. I hope it brings to you everything you want from it.

Second, you are absolutely right. All it takes is common sense. You can do it the stupid way, and scare them off, or you can do it the smart way. Ask carefully thought out, noninvasive questions and you can learn an awful lot about a person. You also need time, and with that patience. Most everyone puts up a facade when they first meet someone, whether they say they do or not. It takes energy, however, to maintain that facade and inevitably the walls crumble and the true identity is thus revealed.

What I am saying boils down to this. If you need to ask someone for a background check, you should not be with that person to begin with. Period. If you have to ask for them on a consistent basis you do not deserve to be in a relationship, period. BDSM or otherwise.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to submissivemiss38)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 2:23:39 AM

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptainsPet

Focus50, I AM an intelligent, mature adult who trusted her instincts. I'm assuming you are honest with a sub; this Dom wasn't. He lied. He wasn't innocent. That's what prompted me to ask for more information, and see how he would react if I asked to do a check. I didn't just walk up to a total stranger and say: "Hey, can I do a background check on you"? And I didn't ask without some initial provocation. Safety issues are VERY important to me. One lie gave me enough to want to know if there were more. And his reaction to my request, semed to confirm my suspicions. In the future, I'm just walking away from liars and/or cheaters. Best thing to keep me out of trouble.

It's been interesting watching this thread turn into a "feeding frenzy"; one of the ugly sides of human nature.... I've also been on the receiving end of the mindless "pack mentality" in Forums myself and I think you've handled yourself quite well even if the strain seems to be starting to show a little; which I find understandable.

Given some of the nonsense that's been put to you here and your mostly logical and rational responses, I doubt you'd ever really need to run a background check on anyone. I stick by what I said in my first reply - your own instincts seem to work just fine.

Unfortunately, the hard part for most seems a reluctance to listen to them. Though it's not 100% guaranteed, I tend to think if something looks, walks and sounds like a duck, I'll assume I'm dealing with a duck until proven otherwise....

Focus.

(in reply to CaptainsPet)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 6:10:00 AM

submissivemiss38

Posts: 40
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: Ottawa ,Ontario
Status: offline

Quack Quack lol ....... listen I had to do something to lighten the mood in here..............

_____________________________

From Mary in Ottawa..........

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 6:26:06 AM

Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: submissivemiss38

I am new at this ; so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt......but if you ask the right questions .....you can figure out people pretty quickly.

I'll add that it's sometimes not the answers that give the best clues but in what spirit they are offered or not offered.

_____________________________

www.lovingdominant.org

(in reply to submissivemiss38)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 8:36:59 AM

submissivemiss38

Posts: 40
Joined: 1/15/2006
From: Ottawa ,Ontario
Status: offline

So true John........How a person comes across speaks volumes. Thank-you for your advice and wisdom on these posts.

_____________________________

From Mary in Ottawa..........

(in reply to JohnWarren)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 9:12:18 AM

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline

Thank you KnightofMists, I understand it a bit better thinking of it in terms of categorizing. I may not agree, but at least now I understand why everyone says I am too closeminded about it lol. I have always looked at the motivations behind lies to determine if they were a necessity or not; and while I may say no to some, the person telling the lie thought the motivation was a good one. That's not to say that I have not been in the same situation, in fact I am sure I have. That's part of the reason why I perfer not to label them...what I think may not be that big of a deal, someone else will; and vice versa.

I will say this though, I came to one huge understanding about myself from reading what you said...I am attempting to place myself above reproach by claiming that lies are lies, and there is no inbetween. You are very good at getting your point across without actually coming out and saying it

And yes...LOL...it hit me just as I was responding to this...but I am going to leave my other response here also.

_____________________________

Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.

-Rumi

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 9:35:34 AM

Posts: 12
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Hello im new here so i know i will proberly get called for saying this

But stop being naive !

A background check is more than enough for someone to clone your identity

In a world where people shred their details , letters , bank statements , receipts and other personal details

are you really going to give your details to the unknown hand texting your across cyber space

just because your labido thinks it might just get its rocks off

Is it just me or is this one dam good honey pot trap

Be sane be safe be careful and if you carnt be safe dont get caught ( always carry your Towel )

(in reply to SirKenin)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 12:57:52 PM

Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline

Also, I want to add something about the lying.

A lie is a lie. Period. There is no right or wrong way to lie. Lying is wrong. This is especially true in a relationship. Lies will always beget more lies, will eventually be discovered (inevitably) and trust will be broken.

There is no justification for your actions. The simple answer is to not find yourself in a position where you have to lie to begin with. You have lifestyle issues if you find that you have to go around covering your tracks. I do not know how you could live with yourself. The ONLY answer to that question is a lack of conscience, and that fits in with the description of a sociopath.

_____________________________

Hi. I don't care. Thanks.

Wicca: Pretending to be an ancient religion since 1956

Catholic Church: Serving up guilt since 107 AD.

(in reply to TeachByRod)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 1:08:52 PM

Posts: 91
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline

Captainspet - go with whatever makes you feel comfortable - Ive been on both ends - I have supplied information on top of information until sub decided... if the shoe is going to fit - it will fit...

early on - I have thrown caution out the back door and gone for it (with much less success) and created some great "what not to do" moments in my life.

go with what makes you feel most comfortable - a patient understanding 'person' will give you all the time in world - a quick fix / troller will always take the path of least resistance...

desoutter

(in reply to KittenWithaTwist)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 1:19:56 PM

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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

Not a head game...a hunch. What he lied about was minor. Suspected more was to follow. That's all.

One of my mantras - use your head, follow your heart and trust your gut. If all three aren't in sync, put on the jogging shoes and don't waste your time.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to CaptainsPet)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 1:31:56 PM

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Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
One of my mantras - use your head, follow your heart and trust your gut. If all three aren't in sync, put on the jogging shoes and don't waste your time.

Absolutely and it IS all three.

I know in the past, the biggest mistakes I've made where when head and heart outvoted my gut feeling.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

RE: Background Check - 1/28/2006 2:51:33 PM

Posts: 1615
Joined: 2/6/2005
Status: offline

LIES are unacceptable.

I have been invited to run checks and I DO insist on HIV tests.

I was once misled by someone with herpes, and that did not please me.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

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