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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 9:34:18 AM   
Lockit


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 Notinferior, So I am a woman who gets down and crawl's in the sewers and act's upon the basest and least savory of masculine habits and is ludicrous... if I think it is okay that a man who has been hit asks the woman not to and she does it again and he punches her and I feel he has a right to do so? How about if I actually defend myself and get into a fight? (Which I don't, but would and could because I have defended myself.)

One can disagree on how one should respond in a situation like that, but I find it very inflammatory to say a woman is crawling in the sewers, etc. if she defends a man's right to protect himself according to standard laws and a sense of fair play.

I was working in a bar and a new group came in. We often had new groups but this group stood out. There were two couples and they were having a good time. One lady went to the bathroom and a short bit later a man went to the bathroom. The lady was coming out of the ladies room and the guy... I knew him to be a gentleman, said hello and proceeded to move toward the men's room. That bitch punched him... his tooth was broken and she tried to continue and he pushed her... her men got mad and before one minute had passed I had a whole bar room brawl.

I knew a man who had a wife who carried baby food jars... the glass kind, in her purse. She would get mad at her husband and fling that purse for his head and when police were called, even though he was banged up, he went to jail.

I have watched men be hit and assualted by women who felt they had the right and if the man dared to defend himself more than still getting his ass scratched to hell by holding her off... still get into trouble because she claimed it. Well, I now say... if a woman is so unlady like to assualt you, she deserves to be hit back! If you don't hit her... good on you... but don't insult people who feel that a man has a right to defend himself from a fucking bitch who is no lady or even a decent human being!

State your point but if you are going to basically call us who disagree with you... bottom dweller's... get ready for a response from one of those so called... crawling objectors and persons who say a lady isn't a lady and deserves what she gets if she assualts... and by legal definations... a man. You want to play like the big boys (men) then you better be able to rock and roll and expect it from some, because you get no specail treatment in my world.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 9:55:43 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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I must disagree.

While I do agree that the woman had no business laying her hands on him, I do not think his use of force was appropriate. Most men are physically stronger than most women (sure there are some cases where the reverse is true). So, presuming this was the case (since we have no evidence to suggest otherwise), the man in question could have grabbed her arms, and took her to the DM and requested the DM contact the local authorities. He SHOULD have pressed charges against her. He had every right to STOP her from continuing the assault. But to punch her? I think that was a bit much. I don't think using violence to stop violence is the best method. While in some cases it may be the only option, I don't think that was the case here.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 10:08:27 AM   
Lockit


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True, in the situation presented it might be better handled another way, but I am saying a man has a right to defend himself against a woman with ill intent especially after asking her not to. Men have had real issues trying to prove they were abused by a lil five footer, one hundred pounds of woman flesh and have often not been believed, put down because no way could that lil thing do damage to a big guy like him and insulted as less of a gentleman if he did feel threatened and defended himself.

That man could have a history of abuse. He was dressed as a school boy. Now... that could mean nothing, but it could also mean something. When working in the field I worked in, I realized that most of my clients who had been harmed somehow, physically or emotionally, got stuck in some area of their emotional state, at the age they were hurt. Some area's of them were very adult and some were emotionally put back at that hurt age when triggered. The man could have triggered from something. Maybe an ex wife who abused him. I like to think that if the law provides a legal self defense and he uses it... whether we would agree on how far he went or not... I still believe he has the right to do so.

I will tell you, from my own experience that I am healed from for the most part... someone walks up behind me and touches me in the wrong way... I am laying them flat out. Just almost instinct from so many attacking me from behind.

Maybe it is best not to do something a certain way, but if it were a woman who had been hit, no one would say a word if she beat his ass up. But a man is supposed to be better somehow because he is a man. He is a human being first. And any human being being assualted by someone lacking in social skills and who might think any man is a play toy... then... I still feel he has a right to be human and protect himself. When one assualts someone.. they ought to know or learn that they could just run into someone who might respond in many different ways.

Perfect scene... the police get involved... but sometimes that just doesn't happen. Had he grabbed her by the arm and insisted that someone do something, he could have been in as much trouble as hitting her.

So I can agree and still disagree. lol It might be best to do it one way... but he has a right to do it the other way.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 10:34:04 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


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I certainly agree he had a right to defend himself. I have no issue with that. But I still contend, that we, as humans need to focus on other methods of resolving issues appropriately. Yep, those are some lofty goals, but a gal can dream, right?

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 10:44:38 AM   
Lockit


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LOL... of course we can dream... I do too! After working in the field of domestic abuse... you can bet I had some issue with even the words dominance and submission! I just could not see it as a good thing for either. Then of course coming from where I came from in life... which was a battlefield, I was always trying to be little peacemaker. lol My rose colored glasses were firmly in place and damn it... right was right and wrong was wrong and I could justify my rose colored glasses! lol

Call it a dream... call it a wish... a why can't we all just get along... whatever... or do it the right way... it is a good dream to have!

I have talked bull's out of fighting... stood between them even and will try to talk people down. I am pretty good at it... but sometimes, no peacemaker work is going to work. lol Then I stand back and say what the hell... kill each other for all I care.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 1:54:44 PM   
Rhodes85


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quote:

Yeah, okay, perhaps the idea of a man not hitting a woman may seem misogynistic to some, but that isn't the way I was raised nor the world I want to live in.  Were I there, the man would have been hit so hard he'd never hit another woman again as long as he lived.  I don't give a damn what she did.


Look, I don't like the idea of hitting a woman either, but he DID act in self defense. She created the situation and he did attempt to avoid confrontation the first time - to which she responded by hitting him. What if the situation were different? What if an alley somewhere and this woman walked up and pulled a knife? Would it be ok to hit her then in self defense or would you think it ok to stand there and get stabbed? There has to be a point at which self defense comes into play. Saying 'good men don't hit women, period' is blatantly sexist. Generally I would agree but we aren't talking about an abusive relationship here, we are talking about self defense and a situation the woman herself created. Incidently chivalry has as much to do with women as it does men.

quote:

In the first place, equality and equal rights are two distinctly different things.  Nobody fought for equality, many people fought for equal rights. 


Not as distinct as you seem to think. Every woman has the right to defend herself if I were to hit her, just as I have the right to defend myself if a woman hit me. You want equal rights? apply those rights equally then.

quote:

now it would be 2 on 1. And those aren't fair odds no matter what's between your legs.


Technically in a 2 on 1 situation the single person has the tactical advantage unless both opponents are specifically trained to fight in co-operation with eachother. Though I see what you're saying.

quote:

Me:  Yes, I read it correctly.  I don't recall saying he hit her without warning.  What I said was that she foolishly thought he wanted to play (presumably because he was a middle-aged guy wearing a schoolboy outfit in a sex club).  He did not defend himself, he escalated the violence from a slap to an out and out punch in a situation where neither was necessary.


Then you did read it wrong. He did not 'escalate' the violence. She got pissed off and slapped him hard enough to knock him down - after being told he was NOT interested in playing, and he came up swinging in a natural defensive response. Look, woman or not, if you hit someone without provocation you can expect a response, and chances are you won't like it.

quote:

ME:  If you want to congratulate a guy who punches a woman in the face, so be it.  You'd be doing it with him laying on the ground nursing a very badly bruised face.  If you joined the fight and started punching me, I'd stand there and laugh at you.  I have done it before.  I recall being about sixteen when a girl got mad at me for something I said (she was justified in getting mad, I assure you) and decided to start punching me (not justified enough to punch me).  I grabbed her arm and straightened her wrist, then explained that if she were going to throw a punch she needed to avoid breaking her wrist.  Then I stepped back and let her hit me again.  This time I laughed and explained she needed to get a better stance because a good breeze would blow her away if she kept her legs so close together.  In the end she started laughing right along with me.  I apologized for my statement and we have been friends ever since (that was thirty years ago, god I am getting old).  Another, more recent experience involved a bunch of teenage girls trying to beat up my neighbors daughter; it involved her flirting with one of the other girl's boyfriend.  I got them together and explained that times may have changed but that is no reason for young ladies to act upon the basest instincts of young men.  We had a pretty good talk over it.  So the answer is yeah, I'd let her hit me.  If it hurt enough I might pin her down, but I wouldn't hit her back.  At least I hope to god that I never get so cowardly that I would haul off and punch a woman.  I do recall having a fight with my ex-wife when she said something pretty mean and I picked her up and dropped her on the bed.  I felt awful about it and still consider it to be one of the worst things I have ever done in my life (and there is a list of things I have done). 


He wasn't congratulating the guy for hitting her, he was stating it was self defense.You come off as WAY too sure of yourself in that statement. If for example I had joined that fight and had hit you (and I would NOT do so unless you hit me first) you would not be laughing, or pinning me and I would not be on the floor. You would be knocked unconscious the second you took a swing at me. Grabbing someones arm in the way you described is not a smart move, its also very easy to get out of if you know what you are doing. I also found your frequent reference to 'punching' interesting. Punching someone is exactly what you want to avoid in a fight, you will do more damage to yourself than you will to the person you hit. My point is simple: overconfidence such as you are displaying in that statement is a bad situation waiting to happen. I would be careful about what situations you get yourself involved in if I were you.

quote:

ME:  I don't recall ever suggesting that its ok for a woman to hit a man.  It is shameful behavior on her part and she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  Most men aren't exactly my size and I am sure there are cases where a large woman could do significant damage to a small man.


The size and strength of your opponent means nothing if you know what you are doing. A competent opponent will use both of those factors against you to his (or her) advantage. Being smaller than your opponenet is a considerable advantage in both speed and agility. Both of which count for more than size and strength.

That being said the man in question acted in a manner that was reasonable and to be expected. While I don't like the idea of hitting a woman, if shes going to go off at someone the way she did she should expect such a reaction. She can't go around hitting people just because shes calls herself a Domme.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 2:53:43 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
Yes, I read it correctly.  I don't recall saying he hit her without warning.  What I said was that she foolishly thought he wanted to play (presumably because he was a middle-aged guy wearing a schoolboy outfit in a sex club).  He did not defend himself, he escalated the violence from a slap to an out and out punch in a situation where neither was necessary.


See, you "say" you read it correctly, and then you demonstrate that you did not. He didn't escalate shit. He was HIT TWICE. The first time, he ASKED her PLEASE not to do that. The second time, he hit her back. He DEFENDED HIMSELF. It's funny how you continue to ignore the fact that he was ASSAULTED TWICE before he acted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
If you want to congratulate a guy who punches a woman in the face, so be it.  You'd be doing it with him laying on the ground nursing a very badly bruised face. 


And you'dbe laying next to him. I seriously doubt you'd be laughing, junior.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
At least I hope to god that I never get so cowardly


But see.....you *are* cowardly because you assume that a person need not defend themselves just because the assailant is a woman. You're part of what's wrong with this society. You assume any situation you might have been through in the past is the same as this one. It's not. But because you assume it is, you are the reason why there are problems in the world. So....you don't feel you should defend yourself against a woman, but I can throw a dart and hit dozens of stories in the news about women murdering men. So apparently, they are capable of causing damage. Wake up and join the 21st century.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
I don't recall ever suggesting that its ok for a woman to hit a man. 


And yet by your stance here you seem to indicate that very thing. You are talking repeatedly about how you'd "defend" her, while ignoring the fact that she started the problem to begin with. Know what that makes you in the eyes of the law? A second ASSAILANT.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
Most men aren't exactly my size and I am sure there are cases where a large woman could do significant damage to a small man.  In such a case I am sure he wouldn't be able to just laugh it off.  Hitting her back, though, is not the solution.


It doesn't matter what "size" the woman is...nor the man. Again, wake up and join the 21st century. I have met women 4 feet tall who could fuck someone up if they wanted to. And I have met women 6 feet tall or taller who couldn't hurt a flea. Size is irrelevant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
Hitting her back, though, is not the solution.


Perhaps not for you. I would see fit to defend myself. You choose not to. That's your call. Perhaps one day you'll change your mind if you have some raving gash draw blood. Perhaps not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: notinferior
Chivalry has nothing to do with ladies or women.  It has to do with men.  Good men just don't hit women, period.  Any man who does is a coward.


Bullshit. Once again you're highlighting the problem with society. If a PERSON assaults you, you DEFEND yourself. By your statement here what you are *indeed* saying is that it's "ok" for women to hit men and expect not to be hit back. And that is sexism at its finest.


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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 2:55:47 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Notinferior, So I am a woman who gets down and crawl's in the sewers and act's upon the basest and least savory of masculine habits and is ludicrous... if I think it is okay that a man who has been hit asks the woman not to and she does it again and he punches her and I feel he has a right to do so? How about if I actually defend myself and get into a fight? (Which I don't, but would and could because I have defended myself.)

One can disagree on how one should respond in a situation like that, but I find it very inflammatory to say a woman is crawling in the sewers, etc. if she defends a man's right to protect himself according to standard laws and a sense of fair play.

I was working in a bar and a new group came in. We often had new groups but this group stood out. There were two couples and they were having a good time. One lady went to the bathroom and a short bit later a man went to the bathroom. The lady was coming out of the ladies room and the guy... I knew him to be a gentleman, said hello and proceeded to move toward the men's room. That bitch punched him... his tooth was broken and she tried to continue and he pushed her... her men got mad and before one minute had passed I had a whole bar room brawl.

I knew a man who had a wife who carried baby food jars... the glass kind, in her purse. She would get mad at her husband and fling that purse for his head and when police were called, even though he was banged up, he went to jail.

I have watched men be hit and assualted by women who felt they had the right and if the man dared to defend himself more than still getting his ass scratched to hell by holding her off... still get into trouble because she claimed it. Well, I now say... if a woman is so unlady like to assualt you, she deserves to be hit back! If you don't hit her... good on you... but don't insult people who feel that a man has a right to defend himself from a fucking bitch who is no lady or even a decent human being!

State your point but if you are going to basically call us who disagree with you... bottom dweller's... get ready for a response from one of those so called... crawling objectors and persons who say a lady isn't a lady and deserves what she gets if she assualts... and by legal definations... a man. You want to play like the big boys (men) then you better be able to rock and roll and expect it from some, because you get no specail treatment in my world.


Well said. But don't forget that he called men who would defend themselves cowards.


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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:07:28 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

True, in the situation presented it might be better handled another way, but I am saying a man has a right to defend himself against a woman with ill intent especially after asking her not to. Men have had real issues trying to prove they were abused by a lil five footer, one hundred pounds of woman flesh and have often not been believed, put down because no way could that lil thing do damage to a big guy like him and insulted as less of a gentleman if he did feel threatened and defended himself.

That man could have a history of abuse. He was dressed as a school boy. Now... that could mean nothing, but it could also mean something. When working in the field I worked in, I realized that most of my clients who had been harmed somehow, physically or emotionally, got stuck in some area of their emotional state, at the age they were hurt. Some area's of them were very adult and some were emotionally put back at that hurt age when triggered. The man could have triggered from something. Maybe an ex wife who abused him. I like to think that if the law provides a legal self defense and he uses it... whether we would agree on how far he went or not... I still believe he has the right to do so.

I will tell you, from my own experience that I am healed from for the most part... someone walks up behind me and touches me in the wrong way... I am laying them flat out. Just almost instinct from so many attacking me from behind.

Maybe it is best not to do something a certain way, but if it were a woman who had been hit, no one would say a word if she beat his ass up. But a man is supposed to be better somehow because he is a man. He is a human being first. And any human being being assualted by someone lacking in social skills and who might think any man is a play toy... then... I still feel he has a right to be human and protect himself. When one assualts someone.. they ought to know or learn that they could just run into someone who might respond in many different ways.

Perfect scene... the police get involved... but sometimes that just doesn't happen. Had he grabbed her by the arm and insisted that someone do something, he could have been in as much trouble as hitting her.

So I can agree and still disagree. lol It might be best to do it one way... but he has a right to do it the other way.


Another well-said post. Nicely done. I hadn't even thought to address the "issues" thing but it was on the tip of my tongue. It's no secret here about my 'issues,' having had an ex who literally back handed me in the face for no reason and would often threaten the same. She was the LAST person to ever raise her hands to me and she will continue to be the last. The next time I'm punched by anyone, they're getting knocked the fuck out. Period. I don't care what's between their legs.

As I've said before, I've personally KNOWN 4-feet tall women who could fuck someone up. Hell, I know one who we gave a nickname to because she's about half my size but had to have 3 guys pull her off of another guy who messed with her. She's the same one who taught a previous husband what happens when you mess with her. But that's an entirely different tale. Suffice it to say that this "little girl" who I could bench press one-handed is one that even *I* wouldn't mess with. And she's never had any fight training whatsoever.


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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:13:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I obviously meant a slap.


And your point? What? You think an open-palm strike to the nose is the 'only' aggressive and potentially deadly martial arts move? A simple "slap" can deafen a person for life by exploding their eardrum. A simple 'slap,' with carelessness and poor aiming can break a jaw, shatter an eye-socket, etc. A simple 'slap' in the wrong place, if it's hard enough, can shatter a small bone located somewhere in the vacinity of the ear canal that can actually kill a person.

Care to continue justifying female to male violence because it's "just a slap?"

Some people are so quick to say violence isn't the answer.....unless it's the woman doing the violence. Then magically it's "ok."


Thank you for projecting a whole bunch of stuff on to me and taking this completely out of context. Much appreciated, dude.

And for the record, I have never, ever, ever justified female to male violence so just watch the flying accusations, will you?

- LA

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:19:30 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Thank you for projecting a whole bunch of stuff on to me and taking this completely out of context. Much appreciated, dude.

And for the record, I have never, ever, ever justified female to male violence so just watch the flying accusations, will you?


I didn't project shit, darlin'. Your whole point here has been that it's "ok" because it was "just a slap." I don't need my accusations to fly, they can get there just walking because you show the way.

I call 'em like I see 'em. If your point was not as I indicated, you'd not be so focused on it being "just a slap." Assault is assault. Period.


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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:25:33 PM   
Lockit


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Loki... I don't think that is what she is saying, but I'm in a slow part of my day and can't go through all the posts to discribe what I believe. I really don't think that is what LA was projecting or saying.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:27:02 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Loki... I don't think that is what she is saying, but I'm in a slow part of my day and can't go through all the posts to discribe what I believe. I really don't think that is what LA was projecting or saying.


Well then she needs to word her statements more carefully. Because that's how it's coming off. In some posts, she says he shouldn't have hit the woman back. And in other posts she says it's "just a slap." What exactly are we supposed to think from combining those two sentiments about the same incident?


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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:29:49 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Thank you for projecting a whole bunch of stuff on to me and taking this completely out of context. Much appreciated, dude.

And for the record, I have never, ever, ever justified female to male violence so just watch the flying accusations, will you?


I didn't project shit, darlin'. Your whole point here has been that it's "ok" because it was "just a slap." I don't need my accusations to fly, they can get there just walking because you show the way.

I call 'em like I see 'em. If your point was not as I indicated, you'd not be so focused on it being "just a slap." Assault is assault. Period.



Open your eyes!! What I said was that in Canada, an open handed slap was a lesser offense. In fact, it was a question to Lockit, just like that, asking her if it was the same in the USA.

How you managed to turn this around to project that I meant this and that speaks volumes about the alternate reality that you live in.

- LA

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:31:52 PM   
LaTigresse


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LadyAngelika, it is his MO..........easier to just ignore the babble.

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:32:32 PM   
Lockit


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Loki, I think what she has been saying is that both were wrong... but he wasn't wrong for the reason you are thinking. She felt there was a better way to handle the situation and I do believe she is correct here. But... I also see the other side too and feel someone has a right to protect themselves especially after he told her no. Because I strongly believe he has a right to defend himself and I am not going to think badly of him for doing so... I also feel that if there is a better way to handle it, do so and I can understand how others would think on this.

I think this is more a difference of opinion on the topic that LA saying what you are thinking... that he doesn't have a right to defend himself. And now... I am going for coffee and a break! I hate trying to function when in a fog! lol

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RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:33:09 PM   
domiguy


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Just another lesson to learn before one realizes that "The community" is comprised of a pile of some really creepy ass fucks. 

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:33:22 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Loki... I don't think that is what she is saying, but I'm in a slow part of my day and can't go through all the posts to discribe what I believe. I really don't think that is what LA was projecting or saying.


Well then she needs to word her statements more carefully. Because that's how it's coming off. In some posts, she says he shouldn't have hit the woman back. And in other posts she says it's "just a slap." What exactly are we supposed to think from combining those two sentiments about the same incident?



The only thing I need to be careful of are little pests like you coming in here and twisting my words around, or correcting my typos. I have no idea why you feel the need to follow me around just to be argumentative but I will not be engaging you any longer. Consider yourself ignored.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:34:02 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
LadyAngelika, it is his MO..........easier to just ignore the babble.


Or you know...she could just choose her words more carefully. Not that I'd expect you to understand that either.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Naughty Mistress!! - 1/26/2010 3:34:23 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Just another lesson to learn before one realizes that "The community" is comprised of a pile of some really creepy ass fucks. 


Domiguy, don't you think I realised that eons ago darling?

I always said a little part of me was a masochist :-p

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 80
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