RE: What good is morality anyway?

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 4:29:25 PM

BenevolentM

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A better way to put it is that morality is inherently impractical.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 4:34:14 PM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetownbicycle

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Morality is the ability to empathize combined with the willingness and self discipline to behave so as to minimize harm to others.

This is nicely put. I'm trying to think of a logical exception to the above, and can't. Holds up for me…..

It's nicely put, but I don't know that it applies universally. What if they want to be harmed, and you're willing to accommodate? Who can claim omniscience of all variables and calculate least harm?

The closest thing I've found to a Kantian categorical imperative is the non-aggression principle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

I would think harm can have both an objective and a subjective interpretation. I'm a masochist and I like pain. Someone who acts as a sadist to my masochist in a consensual way is not actually harming me (even though it might look like that objectively). Pain does not equal harm in my (masochist) brain. If you're not a masochist pain probably does equal harm. When I play with sadists they are always able to properly calculate the distinction between pain and harm. (I'm careful about who I play with). A sadist who cannot distinguish between pain and harm, or chooses not to distinguish between pain and harm, in my world, would not be acting in a moral way.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 4:35:29 PM

BenevolentM

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Because it is inherently impractical you get boxed-in where you must act practically and you chose the optimal solution because a satisfactory solution is either unavailable or is perceived to be unavailable.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 4:35:45 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

A better way to put it is that morality is inherently impractical.

According to whom and why - and make sure your results are scientific, because if you can't apply that very broad statement to everyone, then your logic is inherently fallible.

I should also add how amusing it is that you choose to say what is better and what is true after you threw this classic phrase out there:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

When morality is defined in terms that are comprehensible and results oriented it is easily perverted.

Let's pick one thing and stick with it, shall we? You're all over the map in this thread saying how things "are", but someone else has a clinical definition and offers to back up their commentary with sources and you dismiss it by claiming comprehension perverts definition? I for one refuse to take someone seriously when they demand to be right, and can't even discuss an alternative. It smacks of religion, and you certainly don't want that in a thread about morals!

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 4:57:13 PM

BenevolentM

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The opposition against gay marriage for example is clearly perceived as either the optimal solution or the perceived optimum. So when you try to argue the point that denying homosexuals, for example, the right to marry someone of their choosing is resulting in much suffering, you are not going to get a whole lot of sympathy because everyone already knows that it isn't perfect. Once it is brought to their attention that they are in a sense the source of the suffering, their psychological defense mechanisms are switched on.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:07:12 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The opposition against gay marriage for example is clearly perceived as either the optimal solution or the perceived optimum. So when you try to argue the point that denying homosexuals, for example, the right to marry someone of their choosing is resulting in much suffering, you are not going to get a whole lot of sympathy because everyone already knows that it isn't perfect. Once it is brought to their attention that they are in a sense the source of the suffering, their psychological defense mechanisms are switched on.

Is this parable supposed to define the morality you keep trying to pin down generically, or is it supposed to highlight one specific aspect? In either event, what this has to do with the definition or value of morals is very, very unclear.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:10:38 PM

BenevolentM

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Why do I bother? I bother because it is part of the very fabric of who I am. I am an intellectual. I live and breath it. So my approach is intellectual. Now the Church on the other hand might argue, though you have this impulse to be an intellectual, you don't have to act on it. Let there be no mistake. I am a hardcore intellectual.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 3/11/2014 5:13:06 PM >

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:15:35 PM

BenevolentM

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That is the sort of static I get. Though you have the impulse to be an intellectual, you're just not.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:17:32 PM

BenevolentM

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What I get is, you must belong to the priesthood in order to be considered an intellectual.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:17:58 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Why do I bother? I bother because it is part of the very fabric of who I am. I am an intellectual. I live and breath it. So my approach is intellectual. Now the Church on the other hand might argue, though you this impulse to be an intellectual, but you don't have to act on it. Let there be no mistake. I am a hardcore intellectual.

No, a hardcore intellectual would use proper terminology that is prevalent in in circles where actual study and discourse takes place.

You are an armchair philosopher, with no sources. In fact, all I've seen is egotistical claims of what is right, good and better, with the occasional comment thrown in stating that nothing is absolute and defined things are actually easy to pervert.

I never asked why you bother. That is a narcissistic comment that makes me question your literacy, as there is no credible way to define anything I said as a way of asking you why you bother. If anything, your intentional misinterpretation makes you look even more like a narcissist, and I'm the last person who would feed your ego.

What I am still waiting for from you is a credible, factual explanation justifying any of your self-important claims to know how things really are. Let me know when you have an actual source, or can engage is an actual debate - you know, the kind where you quote, or make your reply suitable to the commentary you are replying to.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:20:09 PM

BenevolentM

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So how do you get to belong to the intellectual priesthood? You can write a book, but that is in truth a bit naive. You have to do more than write a silly book. They want it their way and nothing, but.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:26:13 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

So how do you get to belong to the intellectual priesthood? You can write a book, but that is in truth a bit naive. You have to do more than write a silly book. They want it their way and nothing, but.

Are you drunk?

It's ok if you're drunk, just admit it.

Book writing don't make you smart, and common sense don't give you greater understanding of the Uni-Verse neither.

I know, because I've written books and managed to have common sense (however occasionally). I don't think I'm particularly smart, but I am able to recognize the basic structure of a conversation or a debate. This thread holds neither of those. Instead it bears all sorts of lame snippets of commentary meant to make you look smart, when instead they make you seem specious. (It's a word. Look it up.)

Now, I'm good with communicating with just about anyone, as long as I can grasp the terminology being utilized and the social rules where applicable. This has not been a discussion, and you haven't brought anything to the table. If you cannot do that, I sincerely hope you're drunk, because that excuse is better than the alternative.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:31:55 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

So how do you get to belong to the intellectual priesthood? You can write a book, but that is in truth a bit naive. You have to do more than write a silly book. They want it their way and nothing, but.

How do you compute the optimum when you do not understand the mathematics?

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:39:53 PM

BenevolentM

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The problem is their way is as twisted as a lamb's horn.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:46:04 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The problem is their way is as twisted as a lamb's horn.

They refuse to see what is plainly in front of them.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:50:24 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

So how do you get to belong to the intellectual priesthood? You can write a book, but that is in truth a bit naive. You have to do more than write a silly book. They want it their way and nothing, but.

How do you compute the optimum when you do not understand the mathematics?

Optimum used in the mathematical sense is based on a definition that is going to inherently possess subjective characteristics:

Where is the apogee of orbit around Saturn when using the planet's gravitation to compensate for lack of thrust? The goal here is to compensate for thrust, which in turn means you need to get the most thrust for as little energy expenditure as possible. The purpose behind that, is where subjectivity hits, because the reasoning for needing to slingshot from orbital gravity will at heart have a selfish interest (even collecting scientific data).

Now let's pause the literalism for a moment and assume you're trying to be all gosh golly metaphorical and zen and super smarty and other horseshit. Let's go that extra mile and say that your poorly-orchestrated prose is supposed to be asking me how a person can "truely" be intellectual if they can't grasp real meanings, the kind that somehow theoretically slips out of books. (This is an old argument, by the way: "Books don't know anything, I know the truth because..." It's a very egocentric way of trying to discredit factual work in lieu of your own unsupported opinions.) The answer is - I'm not going to engage in a bitchslap fight about who has the bigger "opinion". I will exchange ideas, accept criticism, and work towards an actual understanding, but if I needed to compare cocks I'd go use a public bathroom and hang by the urinal cakes.

Now note: I have provided multiple translations. I have used more than two levels of comprehensive grammar and placed my slang well. I have addressed what you said and given replies directed at the translations I discerned. I am not tossing off fluffy, uninformative quotes in an attempt to prance my prose like the oh so smart person I am. Try to bear this in mind when you reply, because if you cannot form a simple direct sentence, I will have to retire to Pamplona, where the odour isn't quite so strong.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 5:53:30 PM

deathtothepixies

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The problem is their way is as twisted as a lamb's horn.

2/3 of the posts on this thread are yours, sometimes a lamb's horn can seem quite straight.

Doctors are good people, don't be shy

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 6:02:59 PM

BenevolentM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

The problem is their way is as twisted as a lamb's horn.

2/3 of the posts on this thread are yours, sometimes a lamb's horn can seem quite straight.

Doctors are good people, don't be shy

Rolling my eyes.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 6:09:21 PM

deathtothepixies

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eye rolling?

As I said, doctors are good people

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 3/11/2014 6:10:49 PM

RemoteUser

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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

eye rolling?

As I said, doctors are good people

Verbal. Master. Baiting.

(nuff said...Pamplona, here I come.)

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