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Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:07:54 PM

LDRandAstarte

Posts: 504
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

When the need arrises for punishment to be metered out to a slave, what works best in your situation?
We (and it really started with Me and My sub has picked it up and now uses it when she tops as well) prefer to note a an infraction when it occers, and advise the sub that she has a caning, consisting of x amount of lashes, coming at a later date. It could be several days to a week down the road. This puts the sub in a mental state of thinking about the punishment and the infraction that caused it for many days. It also provides a cool off time, should the infraction be severe enough to cause real anger. This also insures that no one is stuck in anger.

Post #: 1

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:35:37 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

IMO the most effective punishments are rare, quick, and direct.

The point at which I decide to give a punishment can take a good long while. I need to assess what happened, we need to talk about what happened, I need to assess their mental and emotional state at the time and currently and I need to reconfigure my training style and processes to accommodate this.

Someone disobeying to the point of punishment means there's something already going wrong in the program. I need to get to THAT before punishment will be effective.

Once I get to the point of punishment, I clearly explain what it is, make sure they completely understand and agree to the punishment, immediately put it into effect and then it's done.

I have to admit I'm often stunned to hear of people making elaborate punishments and wondering what on earth it has to do with whatever behavior they are attempting to change? Life is too short, punishment is a dismal enough affair that makes me doubt, revise, re-plan and do a lot of clean up already. Why make the actual punishment any longer than absolutely necessary?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_611292/mpage_2/key_punishment/tm.htm#611778
Punishment is Deceptive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_597685/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#597689
Talking Vs Corporal Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_572243/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#572280
Question for female subs on punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_18608/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#18608
Punishment and Discipline

http://www.collarchat.com/m_74162/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#74162
Training? Punishment?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_84734/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#84734
Punishment vs Play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_146151/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#146151
What is the difference between punishment and discipline?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_374557/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#374557
Testing, being broken, regular punishment, etc, etc....

http://www.collarchat.com/m_523257/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#523257
Discipline & Punishment

http://www.collarchat.com/m_495126/mpage_1/key_punishment/tm.htm#495126
On punishment

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 2

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:44:00 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

corporal punishment is rarely meted out in our relationship except as play punishment or as a swift response to a minor infraction, like forgetting to bring something over, or something like that. if there's something that i'm doing really wrong, we're much more likely to discuss it and he makes sure i'm aware of what is wrong and that i know how to correct it and that he is displeased (while also making sure i'm not beating myself up in guilt or anything like that). in extreme cases (thankfully this hasn't happened yet, but it's something he's mentioned once or twice as a punishment possibility), his removal from my life for a certain period of time might be possible, which honestly would probably be more effective than i can ever imagine any physical punishment being.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:49:02 PM

VelvetVixyn

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/25/2007
Status: offline

I'only been a >Mistress< in the formal sense for about a month or two, but I've been Dominant all MY life. Before I got interested in BDSM I punished MY suitors by ignoring them or dumping them. Or passing them on to a girlfriend I KNEW was beautiful but a heartless beeyotch! LOLOLOLOL!
Now that I am formally into BDSM, MY creature, frank, is punished with nipple pinching, which he HATES! AND with being forced to wash the truck. In the snow. In a dress!

I tried punishing him with spanking, but he likes THAT... the little tart! MY neighbor Lady, who WAS a Domme, is teaching ME all the things I missed by just reading about this fun! She claims one should be calm when punishing a slutty slave. HA! I think best when I'm ripping pizzed! And of COURSE EVERYTHING is the SLAVE'S fault, isn't it?

Veve

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 4

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:50:36 PM

goodpet

Posts: 458
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline

There have not been many times a punishment has been in order but the couple of times it was needed the physical act came within a day. Too much time between the infraction and the punishment can lead to a lot of stress on the subbie, or as time goes by, the severity of the infraction seems to lessen (time heals all wounds) so then the punishment seems out of whack.

i would never suggest more then a day or two between infraction and giving the punishment.

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 5

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:54:10 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VelvetVixyn

She claims one should be calm when punishing a slutty slave. HA! I think best when I'm ripping pizzed! And of COURSE EVERYTHING is the SLAVE'S fault, isn't it?

Veve

*praying that this was meant to be a very bad joke*

(in reply to VelvetVixyn)

Post #: 6

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 5:54:18 PM

slavemaia

Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline

Well there has already been much talk about punishment on this site, i.e. how do you punish a masochist. i believe if punishment is intended to really discourage unwanted behavior, then a Dominant would do well considering something the sub/slave truly dislikes or hates; for example removing a priviledge for a specific period of time. Master has done that with me - thankfully very seldom because i'm - ahem - so good *grin*.

From past posts, my impression is any sincere sub or slave truly dislikes behaving in any manner that causes displeasure to her/his Dominant. That in itself is oftentimes experienced as punishment. Like anything, it's a pretty individual matter.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 7

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 7:15:52 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

He feels the "best" way is to take into account what happened and why, and to understand the uniqueness of the slave. What may have worked great for me might be crushing to another, and so on. This is why he takes the time to know a girl as thoroughly as possible before taking her on as his own. He needs to know her well to know how to effectively guide and discipline her. I don't think there is a cookie cutter approach to dealing with infractions. Too many factors at stake.

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 8

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 7:30:08 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

what works best in your situation?

Just an observation. This happens A LOT on this forum and other lists as well. Someone asks "what works best in your situation?" obviously hoping to get a variety of answers but instead all the answers sound basically the same. Everyone says, "well that depends" or "there is no rule of thumb." Well of course there isn't and that wasn't the question. Maybe I haven't read far enough into this thread to know, but I don't look forward to yet another 10 pages of "it really varies case by case." Why don't we all answer the question simply as what works for us so the OP and everyone else will actually be exposed to this wide variety of answers.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 9

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 7:37:56 PM

reamer

Posts: 57
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline

If she squirms in anticipation of anal, then she gets nothing she likes til she takes hard anal, willingly, and has to ASK for it.

If she likes floggers but loathes the wooden hairbrush, especially on elbows/knees with asshole exposed knowing it will be plundered, same. Nothing she enjoys until she takes that, and asks for it. If she laughs and states how she loves the hairbrush, she is reminded that most women (not all) love THEIR idea of the brush, not what a man "might do" of his own accord, especially if the asscheeks have been scrubed with rubbing alcohol beforehand. And her asshole is "figged" with ginger during the experience.

That includes all "romance"/relationship activities, including chat/phone/e-mails.

If she tries to complain via e-mail etc., she gets one response only, "When you accept what you have earned, you get more than these words, until then, far be it for me to deny you the consequences of your actions".

(in reply to slavemaia)

Post #: 10

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 7:49:31 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

If she squirms in anticipation of anal, then she gets nothing she likes til she takes hard anal, willingly, and has to ASK for it.

I'm curious now. Does this include squirming in a good way? Like in anticipation? Or only if it's out of disobedience? In that case, how do you judge? And do you spend time training her to be still even when waiting in dread of something or is this rule in application from the get-go? Thanks for humoring my curiosities.

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to reamer)

Post #: 11

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 7:59:19 PM

reamer

Posts: 57
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline

Does this include squirming in a good way? Like in anticipation?

Yes

Or only if it's out of disobedience?

No, that would limit the amout of reaming (please refer to my username LOL). But a subbie anus can get QUITE sore and tender (albeit undamaged) by LONG ploughing using condom and lube, depending on the stroke method.

In that case, how do you judge?

I don't. If the stroke is correct I don't need to.

And do you spend time training her to be still even when waiting in dread of something or is this rule in application from the get-go?

No. Lot's of movement is better with anal. Staying still for the wooden spoon? Different matter. Also while plucking the tiny hairs from her anal groove and if she moves, figging, with anal for later. NOT pleasant.

Hopefully this satifies your curiosity. *wink*

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 12

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 8:13:04 PM

DominaSmartass

Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

No. Lot's of movement is better with anal.

Well now I am confused. If movement is better then why do you punish her for squirming?

_____________________________

“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

(in reply to reamer)

Post #: 13

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 8:29:34 PM

reamer

Posts: 57
Joined: 1/16/2007
Status: offline

Well now I am confused. If movement is better then why do you punish her for squirming?

some women I have been with both love and hate anal, hence the "squirm".

I don't punish anyone for squirming during anal or insertion of toys. But sometimes a vibrating plug or other things can make them squirm and not sit still for the spooning or brushing that can be VERY "oh god not that".

It's about the combination. LIke sushi plus wasabe.

sushi sans wasabe is pathetic, wasabe sans sushi is just foreign horseradish.

< Message edited by reamer -- 1/31/2007 8:30:31 PM >

(in reply to DominaSmartass)

Post #: 14

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 1/31/2007 8:49:21 PM

hisannabelle

Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: reamer

If she squirms in anticipation of anal, then she gets nothing she likes til she takes hard anal, willingly, and has to ASK for it.

If she likes floggers but loathes the wooden hairbrush, especially on elbows/knees with asshole exposed knowing it will be plundered, same. Nothing she enjoys until she takes that, and asks for it. If she laughs and states how she loves the hairbrush, she is reminded that most women (not all) love THEIR idea of the brush, not what a man "might do" of his own accord, especially if the asscheeks have been scrubed with rubbing alcohol beforehand. And her asshole is "figged" with ginger during the experience.

That includes all "romance"/relationship activities, including chat/phone/e-mails.

If she tries to complain via e-mail etc., she gets one response only, "When you accept what you have earned, you get more than these words, until then, far be it for me to deny you the consequences of your actions".

out of curiosity, because i'm a bit confused...are you punishing her for enjoying any kind of anal sex or impact play, or simply punishing her more for enjoying anal sex/impact play that's intended as punishment?

(in reply to reamer)

Post #: 15

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 2/1/2007 6:17:44 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Pretty much the same thing, though anger has never been an issue.

It's more penalty than punishment, they are set up for specific circumstances, agreed in advance and severe.

I've actually been *punished* incredibly rarely.

agirl

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 16

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 2/1/2007 6:30:10 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Any time I've had to administer a punishment it makes me feel like crap. Needing punishment to me is a sign of one or two things. Either I've chosen the sub/slave poorly and they have no real desire to serve and be obedient OR I've done a poor job of training and making my orders clear.

I punish once for each type of problem. A repeat of that problem results in ending the scene space we are in and having a discussion about what is wrong. If the problem arises again, the relationship is ended. I have no time in my life for people who are players and aren't serious about being useful and good slaves.

I am only interested in mature (not by age) individuals with a strong drive and identity as slaves -- these people do not, in my experience, require much punishment and are far more likely to see even tiny errors in a hugely negative light -- thus an owner may spend more time giving them the opportunity to correct the situation and assurance that once corrected, the matter is a non-issue.

When I do punish I make each punishment follow three criteria. First it must be geared to the problem and focused on drawing attention to that problem so that there is a strong connection between disobedience and punishment. Second it must be geared to the slave's personality. Third it must not be related to anything I enjoy doing -- thus I would never use a flogging, caning, or other such things.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 17

Punishment - 2/1/2007 7:12:51 AM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDRandAstarte

When the need arrises for punishment to be metered out to a slave, what works best in your situation?

I prefer to mete out punishment with relative quickness. There may be some time to wait prior to carrying it out, but that is usually so due to any variety of circumstances that may arise in the course of normal everyday events. So long as the displeasure of the transgression is communicated clearly and the punishment given is emotionally effective enough to be remembered, that is all that matters. My suggestion is not to make a circus out of correction. Be swift in getting to it and above all be effective; the nature, degree or length of the penance will vary, but it is wise to associate the displeasing act with the arrival of a timely and fitting correction.

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 18

RE: Punishment, and how you choose to apply it. - 2/1/2007 7:55:04 AM

happypervert

Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline

IMO, punishment is a kink for some people -- they enjoy having rules just so they can punish when there is some petty infraction. That isn't the sort of thing I care to be bothered with.

On the rare occasions I've punished it has been for something fairly serious, and then punishment has been along the lines of a very unpleasant assignment or removing a priveledge. The feedback that punishment has been earned is swift, though actually coming up with a devious punishment that meets the crime may take me a while after that because I want the punishment to be far worse psychologically than just a simple beating so that the behavior is corrected and never happens again.

_____________________________

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live." . . . Mark Twain

(in reply to LDRandAstarte)

Post #: 19

RE: Punishment - 2/1/2007 8:13:20 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I prefer to mete out punishment with relative quickness. There may be some time to wait prior to carrying it out, but that is usually so due to any variety of circumstances that may arise in the course of normal everyday events.

my former partner believed in the two esses....swift and severe. Under some circumstances, the correction did have to wait but it was always administered as soon as circumstances permitted.

So long as the displeasure of the transgression is communicated clearly and the punishment given is emotionally effective enough to be remembered, that is all that matters.

Excellent point. The punishment was definitely emotionally effective for me.

My suggestion is not to make a circus out of correction. Be swift in getting to it and above all be effective; the nature, degree or length of the penance will vary, but it is wise to associate the displeasing act with the arrival of a timely and fitting correction.

That was definitely how it worked for us. Good points.

DG

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 20

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