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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 6:34:57 PM   
heartfeltsub


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Mad Rabbit

The concept of having to suffer in a M/s relationship or be lacking as a slave would make all the slaves who do are not owned by a Sadist somehow less of a slave than someone who is, and that is the concept that i disagree with so strongly.

And just for the record i don't identify as a slave and i serve a Sadist even though i am not  someone who enjoys pain for the endorphins. If both a Master and a slave wish to incorporate suffering in the relationship for a spiritual reason or for whatever reason more power to them, that is neither my concern nor my business. To me, the M/s relationships and dynamic are about mutual fulfillment of the parties involved and if suffering or causing suffering is part of what makes one fulfilled in the relationship, good for them. But to be told that someone is lacking as a slave because he or she is not suffering is offensive and comes across as trying to force one's own dynamic on another.

heartfelt

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 7/19/2007 6:35:18 PM >


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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 6:41:19 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: libbiez

i like to be shared actualy, but would never want to be lent out or sold...


ok this puzzled me

what is the difference between being shared and being lent out.... ?

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 6:45:36 PM   
MadRabbit


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Well...I fail to see how her having personal standards for what makes them more or less of a Master and slave is an automaitc insult to everyone else.

Edited To Add :

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

The concept of having to suffer in a M/s relationship or be lacking as a slave would make all the slaves who do are not owned by a Sadist somehow less of a slave than someone who is, and that is the concept that i disagree with so strongly.



Perhaps you should reread what she said because this isnt it at all



< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 7/19/2007 6:51:31 PM >


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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 7:20:48 PM   
heartfeltsub


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It is a point of view she has stated on multiple occasions on other threads.

heartfelt

< Message edited by heartfeltsub -- 7/19/2007 7:21:19 PM >


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Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 8:11:32 PM   
Gattina


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As somebody who is completely new to this bdsm thing I'm surprised to see how many people think that slaves or subs shouldnt suffer at all. I'd always kind of assumed that in an authority dynamic where you submit to somebody elses will that one of the aspects you'd have to accept is that occasionally you'd be asked to do something you'd rather not. And obviously people can set limits or decide to leave but i never considered that someone's hard limits would include Everything they didnt want to do. Whether or not the Dom/nes wish to cause suffering (and I can understand the argument that its proof and testament to the submission) I would have though it would just happen naturally out of no 2 people being 100% compatible and 1 person getting to choose how the relationship goes. Or am I getting this wrong? I'm not trying to cause offence, just curious about the lifestyle.

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 8:25:14 PM   
Sinergy


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I would have to give it a lot of thought.  While I can understand the theoretical reasons for sharing one's property, three things tend to constrain me.

1)  My own emotional reactions.

2)  I dont know anybody, who would understand the honor, well enough to want to give them that level of honor.

3)  Cooties.  Eww.

Sinergy

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 8:33:48 PM   
angelic


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heartfeltsub, there are those (imo) that do not know the difference between Dom/Master/Sadist and... ( for the sake of argument)... one who is not.

< Message edited by angelic -- 7/19/2007 8:34:09 PM >


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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 8:35:11 PM   
MzMia


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Sinergy, I hate cooties.
ewwwwww
 
Cooties is reason enough for me NOT to share.

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 9:22:59 PM   
daddysprop247


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Sinergy, I hate cooties.
ewwwwww
 
Cooties is reason enough for me NOT to share.



cooties can be avoided, or at the very least minimized. but what rewards are to be had in life without taking a few risks every now and then?

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/19/2007 11:02:01 PM   
ownedgirlie


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~ Fast Reply ~

I've cruised through this thread and the concept comes to mind of that saying about going to the ends of the earth for someone.  Would that not include enduring?  Suffering?  Being put out?  Hell yes I have endured stuff I didn't want to endure for my Master, and I have grown leaps and bounds as a result, which helped me enormously in life.  When my Dad became so sick and the things going on with his body were so horrific I didn't think I could take one more minute of being by his side, an image came to me of something I went through for my Master, and I drew from it, and knew I had all the strength in the world to clean up what my Dad had just projected all over me and stay put.  Had I not suffered for my Master, I would not have had the strength for many other things that I've been called on to deal with.

Most of my greatest life developments have come from perservering through adversity.  Were everything easy for me all the time, I wouldn't have to stretch myself, and he wouldn't have the enjoyment he gets from seeing me dig deep inside myself for him. 

So yes, I would walk to the ends of the earth for him.  I find myself wanting to do more and more difficult things for him because it fulfills me to reach that deep to do so.  I see nothing wrong with that, and he enjoys that dynamic in me.  He does not look for horrendous things to put me through (like someone proposed being homeless??) that would be of detriment to him.  He enjoys his slave where he wants her and in tact.  But he does challenge me - sometimes for my own good, and sometimes for his amusement and entertainment.  If he wants it of me, I will do it. 

No one enjoys suffering.  And my slavery isn't all about suffering, but it includes suffering from time to time.  But I think we all feel good when someone sacrifices for us, no? 

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 12:03:20 AM   
slavegirljoy


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A general reply to no one in particular.
 
In light of the extensive discussion here about tests and trials, i thought that this might be relevant.



"Trials, temptations, disappointments -- all these are helps instead of hindrances, if one uses them rightly. They not only test the fibre of a character, but strengthen it. Every conquered temptation represents a new fund of moral energy. Every trial endured and weathered in the right spirit makes a soul nobler and stronger than it was before." 
       -- James Buckham  (
1818-1884), a British pharmaceutical chemist, professor, museum curator, botanist, geologist, archaeologist, author and farmer.

And, these are just some general comments of mine, regarding the issue of testing and trials, etc., and are not directed to anyone in particular. Anyone can "test" anyone.  A slave can test her Master, just as much as a Master can test His slave.  i used to be an habitual "tester" in my relationships, both BDSM-based an non-BDSM.  If i was with a guy for more than two months, i would find myself "testing" him, usually without me even being aware that i was doing it, until later.  i would test his love for me, i would test whether he would stick around if i did this or that sort of behavior, i would test his patience with me.  Sometimes the guy would get tired of my silliness and end the relationship, which, of course, would prove to me that i was "right" to test him because he wasn't really committed to me, just as i suspected.  Usually, though, the guy would put up with me and stick around and then i would have to find some reason to end the relationship myself, mainly because, even though i would push, push, push, he would never take the bait and put me in my place, which is what i was secretly looking for.   All of this repeated testing was born from my own insecurities about whether any man would ever truly want me enough to stay with me, even if i behaved badly.  This testing was also completely unnecessary, because, if i had just been brave enough to talk openly and honestly about my fears and about my true desires, i would have either found out that the guy was willing to work with me to overcome my fears and help realize my desires or he would have told me that he wasn't interested in all that and it would have ended without all the drama.  Fortunately, i finally grew up and realized that i didn't need to test anymore.  i only needed to communicate my feelings.  It really does work and a whole lot more effectively and nicely than the silly testing. As the slave of Master David, i have been tested pretty extensively over the past 18 months or so, and not by any design or desire on His part, but simply by life.  Two months after moving in and becoming His full-time, live-in slave, He hurt His back on the job and couldn't work.  He was out on disability for several months.  He had to undergo several weeks of getting cortisone shots in His spine, which caused Him to be bedridden for days afterwards.  Then, He had back surgery to remove part of a disc.  He was in a lot of pain, had to take a lot of medication, and was unable to do the things that He (and i) enjoy doing, while He convalesced.  i had to be His full-time nursemaid and do things for Him that i had only ever done for my kids, when they were babies.   Then, at the end of January, barely one year into Oour relationship, He had Uus move in with His 75 year-old mother, in her single-wide trailer, to help her, while she was undergoing chemo and radiation treatment for lung cancer.  It was very tight quarters and most of Oour belongings had to be put in storage.  i stayed with her all day long, while He went to work.  Living with His mother also meant severely limiting Oour intimate interactions as Master and slave.  Let's just say, this was a very tense time for He and i. The hardest time came when, on a Saturday morning in June, while i was in the kitchen fixing Master a bagel and cup of coffee, i heard His mother's faint voice call out from behind her bedroom door.  i told Him that she was calling out and, when He opened her door, there she was laying on the floor, unable to get up or speak clearly.  i called for an ambulance and she was taken to the hospital.  She had suffered a severe stroke.  She was kept in ICU for 10 days and underwent brain surgery to remove the clot and pool of blood.  She was then moved to a critical care ward and finally to the Hospice unit.  Master was at the hospital with her every day, from 7 A.M. until 9 P.M. and had to take unpaid leave from work.   When she was moved to hospice, He and i both stayed in her room around the clock for 6 days and 5 nights, while Wwe watched her die.  i had never seen anyone die before.  It was the hardest thing i have ever done.  i stayed with Him, because He wouldn't leave her and i couldn't see Him going through that alone.  She died on Sunday morning, July 8th, and Wwe buried her on July 11th.  It's still very hard to be in her home, without her and knowing that she will not be coming back.  Wwe have had to go through her clothes and photos and other belongings and each item is a reminder that His mother is gone.  Wwe are also having to fix up this trailer to make it sale-able.  Even though Wwe both know that her suffering is over and that all the pain she had endured during her fight with cancer is over, her death is all so hard to deal with.  Talk about a test, not planned and not wanted, but a very hard test, for both He and i. At least six times over the past several months, Master has said to me that He wouldn't blame me if i packed my bags and left and that He would completely understand and that He knows that i "didn't sign-up for all this" and that He doesn't think too many women would come to be His slave and then have to go through all of this and want to stay.  i told Him that i made a commitment to Him, that i gave Him my word to be His for as long as He would want and need me, and my word is something He can always count on.  It's stronger than any promise or any vow or any license or any contract or any other form of assurance.  It's unwavering, no matter what unexpected challenges come along.  i think He really believes i'm gonna stay, now, which i already knew and i didn't need to be tested to find that out.  But, the tests, and my resolve to get through them all, has shown Him that i am fully committed to Him and that's a good thing. Oh, yeah, as far as i'm concerned, no one is better at testing, than kids are.  my kids test me all the time.  They test my patience and my will and my rules and maybe even my love, from time to time.  i always pass their tests and they get reassured that i mean what i say and that they can always count on me to be there for them and to keep them safe and sound and on a positive path to adulthood. For what it's worth, these are just my personal thoughts on all this testing business. slave joyOwned property of Master David "Commitment transforms a promise into a reality."

< Message edited by slavegirljoy -- 7/20/2007 12:08:49 AM >

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 2:41:26 AM   
heartfeltsub


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To both owned and joy, very good posts. Just to explain my point of view, yes i have suffered in life and yes that suffering, enduring does and has caused growth and strength in me, however i have also grown from events that did not cause suffering. i agree wholeheartedly with both of you on what you have posted, but then neither of you have posted that that is the only way one can grow. As you have stated earlier joy being a human being makes suffering inevitable, it doesn't matter whether one identifies as a Master or a slave. Thank you both for excellent posts.

heartfelt


_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 3:54:07 AM   
wgirl


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To each  His/his..own...some share, some don't, some do it for their sub's growth, and some know instinctively or from converstations with His one that it would be agreeable to both...live and let live.

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 4:03:51 AM   
julietsierra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

She doesn't know she is truly owned unless her life is hell and she wants to get out? Hogwash. How about if he creates and maintains an enviroment for her that is so incredible, wonderful and represents her best path through life, so much so that leaving him is unthinkable...and never lets that environment or that belief change in her..she is a literal slave of his making.



You say tomato, I say tomata, You say potato, I say potata...

It's apparent that for you, extra trials beyond those life throws at you are not necessary - and that's all well and good. However, it does not follow that when someone who calls themself a slave's life is temporarily "hell" that they necessarily want to get out.

Some of us like a little hell with our lovin, thank you very much.

I'm reminded of a scene in the last show from China Beach (a long ago series about doctors and nurses during the VietNam war - kind of a MASH take off). The doctors and nurses from China Beach meet years later in Washington for the dedication of The Wall - the memorial to those who served in VietNam. After the dedication, they are sitting on the steps in front of the Lincoln Memorial reminiscing. And what comes out is that their time in VietNam was indeed horrible -  but that at no time since then have they ever felt more alive.

And yes, I CAN grow from opting on my own to take the gormet cooking class or finish my degree - and I undoubtedly WILL grow from the experience. However, to compare that to the way I feel when I accomplish something that my Master has set up for me; when he puts me in that temporary place of "hell" and I'm able to come out whole on the other side... well, there simply is no comparison - in my mind.

In short, I feel more alive, more thrilled, more of so many other things when I make it through the hell than when I just wait for life to toss things my way. So while for you, "slavery" may not entail these things, for me, they do. It doesn't make how you see things wrong, but nor does it make what my Master has me do "hogwash."

And if you choose to call yourself a slave because your Master is making your life a bed of roses and you're so grateful that you'll never leave, then good on you.

But I can't help but have this niggling thought in the back of my mind "I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden, a crisis hit and that bed of roses suddenly became horribly thorny? Would you walk away?" Those of us who enjoy the "hogwash" hell aspects of slavery get to answer that question daily, and sometimes, more often than that. 

My bad analogy: A quiet stream is a nice place, kind of peaceful on  a hot summer day. And for a lot of people, there's nothing more lovely than floating along in that stream just relaxing and loving life. Some people prefer the white water rapids, where they are challenged to their utmost. To them, nothing is so lovely as the quiter places when you've just come down through the rapids. It's not that the rapids were better or worse. It's that the differences are stark in comparison, making each one more beautiful.

juliet

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 4:25:53 AM   
bandit25


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I think part of the problem is that "suffering" is a subjective term.  What I consider suffering, you may enjoy.  Of course, life throws us adversity and we either are up to the challenge or we are not.  As owned said, we can grow from challenges; however, I know many that do not grow from challenges.  Each and every challenge takes a piece of that person away.  Hey!  We're all different and we all see things differently.

I usually agree 100% with julietsierra, but this time I have to take a wee bit o' exception.  I understand that you like some hell in your life...that's wonderful.  But some of us have hell outside of our relationships and seek a shelter within (not saying I do, just that some do).  That does not mean (or even hint) that we would walk if things got rough.  Nor does it mean that within the relationship life is a bed of roses.  Nor one way is right or wrong.  I don't wait for life to toss things my way...I go after what I want/need.  I just don't necessarily take the highway to Hell to do it.

Peace out

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 5:15:16 AM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

No one enjoys suffering.  And my slavery isn't all about suffering, but it includes suffering from time to time.  But I think we all feel good when someone sacrifices for us, no? 



quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

But I can't help but have this niggling thought in the back of my mind "I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden, a crisis hit and that bed of roses suddenly became horribly thorny? Would you walk away?" Those of us who enjoy the "hogwash" hell aspects of slavery get to answer that question daily, and sometimes, more often than that. 



Thank you. I think these two paragraphs both went straight to the heart of what I was trying to say.

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 5:16:57 AM   
BeingChewsie


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I have been in his collar almost 8 years and am now his wife. I'm owned, I'm unable to walk away. Crisis has hit us both many times over the years, none of those things made me a slave, simply being owned does.  I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with "hell"..but there is something wrong with the idea that for a person to be a slave there must be hell, be it a little or a lot.

I never said anything about the things an owner has a girl do being hogwash. The statement that suffering, sacrifice, hardship are what makes a person a slave and that those thing are required for slaves to grow are hogwash.

Why are you so hostile in this post? I never said hell was bad, just not required to be owned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

She doesn't know she is truly owned unless her life is hell and she wants to get out? Hogwash. How about if he creates and maintains an enviroment for her that is so incredible, wonderful and represents her best path through life, so much so that leaving him is unthinkable...and never lets that environment or that belief change in her..she is a literal slave of his making.



You say tomato, I say tomata, You say potato, I say potata...

It's apparent that for you, extra trials beyond those life throws at you are not necessary - and that's all well and good. However, it does not follow that when someone who calls themself a slave's life is temporarily "hell" that they necessarily want to get out.

Some of us like a little hell with our lovin, thank you very much.

I'm reminded of a scene in the last show from China Beach (a long ago series about doctors and nurses during the VietNam war - kind of a MASH take off). The doctors and nurses from China Beach meet years later in Washington for the dedication of The Wall - the memorial to those who served in VietNam. After the dedication, they are sitting on the steps in front of the Lincoln Memorial reminiscing. And what comes out is that their time in VietNam was indeed horrible -  but that at no time since then have they ever felt more alive.

And yes, I CAN grow from opting on my own to take the gormet cooking class or finish my degree - and I undoubtedly WILL grow from the experience. However, to compare that to the way I feel when I accomplish something that my Master has set up for me; when he puts me in that temporary place of "hell" and I'm able to come out whole on the other side... well, there simply is no comparison - in my mind.

In short, I feel more alive, more thrilled, more of so many other things when I make it through the hell than when I just wait for life to toss things my way. So while for you, "slavery" may not entail these things, for me, they do. It doesn't make how you see things wrong, but nor does it make what my Master has me do "hogwash."

And if you choose to call yourself a slave because your Master is making your life a bed of roses and you're so grateful that you'll never leave, then good on you.

But I can't help but have this niggling thought in the back of my mind "I wonder what would happen if all of a sudden, a crisis hit and that bed of roses suddenly became horribly thorny? Would you walk away?" Those of us who enjoy the "hogwash" hell aspects of slavery get to answer that question daily, and sometimes, more often than that. 

My bad analogy: A quiet stream is a nice place, kind of peaceful on  a hot summer day. And for a lot of people, there's nothing more lovely than floating along in that stream just relaxing and loving life. Some people prefer the white water rapids, where they are challenged to their utmost. To them, nothing is so lovely as the quiter places when you've just come down through the rapids. It's not that the rapids were better or worse. It's that the differences are stark in comparison, making each one more beautiful.

juliet


< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 7/20/2007 5:45:39 AM >


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 5:24:37 AM   
BeingChewsie


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It could. The point is it doesn't have too. Slavery doesn't have to involve any suffering to be slavery. It doesn't have to involve any sacrifice to be slavery. Your lot in life can be a nice easy one and you can still be owned. Some men don't want things that cause hardship, it is really that simple. They want obedience to the things they want done, for the girl who wants some struggle and sacrifice she might be kind of bummed if all he wants happens to be stuff she finds easy but that is just too bad...does she walk away because her slavery isn't being given to her on her terms?..he is the owner, he can have it his way. If his way involved endless suffering great for him too...but it doesn't define slavery..ownership does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~ Fast Reply ~

I've cruised through this thread and the concept comes to mind of that saying about going to the ends of the earth for someone.  Would that not include enduring?  Suffering?  Being put out?  Hell yes I have endured stuff I didn't want to endure for my Master, and I have grown leaps and bounds as a result, which helped me enormously in life.  When my Dad became so sick and the things going on with his body were so horrific I didn't think I could take one more minute of being by his side, an image came to me of something I went through for my Master, and I drew from it, and knew I had all the strength in the world to clean up what my Dad had just projected all over me and stay put.  Had I not suffered for my Master, I would not have had the strength for many other things that I've been called on to deal with.

Most of my greatest life developments have come from perservering through adversity.  Were everything easy for me all the time, I wouldn't have to stretch myself, and he wouldn't have the enjoyment he gets from seeing me dig deep inside myself for him. 

So yes, I would walk to the ends of the earth for him.  I find myself wanting to do more and more difficult things for him because it fulfills me to reach that deep to do so.  I see nothing wrong with that, and he enjoys that dynamic in me.  He does not look for horrendous things to put me through (like someone proposed being homeless??) that would be of detriment to him.  He enjoys his slave where he wants her and in tact.  But he does challenge me - sometimes for my own good, and sometimes for his amusement and entertainment.  If he wants it of me, I will do it. 

No one enjoys suffering.  And my slavery isn't all about suffering, but it includes suffering from time to time.  But I think we all feel good when someone sacrifices for us, no? 



< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 7/20/2007 5:29:28 AM >


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

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RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 6:17:49 AM   
imthatacheyouhav


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Joined: 4/16/2007
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To the OP...i STRUGGLE with this question myself. i just don't get it. my Master wants to share me while He is with me. I would not be alone with other men, my Master would be there. Does this make the thought of this better in my mind? NO FUCKIN WAY....but its not my call. Master says i will grow into being able to do this some day, i guess i'll have to take His word for that.

_____________________________

*if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything*
**collared July 22 2007 by LordKen**

(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Master why do you want to share me? - 7/20/2007 8:04:43 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

To both owned and joy, very good posts. Just to explain my point of view, yes i have suffered in life and yes that suffering, enduring does and has caused growth and strength in me, however i have also grown from events that did not cause suffering. i agree wholeheartedly with both of you on what you have posted, but then neither of you have posted that that is the only way one can grow. As you have stated earlier joy being a human being makes suffering inevitable, it doesn't matter whether one identifies as a Master or a slave. Thank you both for excellent posts.

heartfelt



Correct.  I did not say that is the only way someone can grow.  I grow from many different situations.  But I find I grow most, as do others I know, when called upon to dig deep and step up in the face of adversity.  Each trial makes me stronger for the next.  And those friends of mine who know what adversities came my way this past year (not related to my Master) know that I would not have handled them at all had it not been for him preparing me by way of making me stronger through endurance.  So while I say it 's not the only way to grow, it is my experience that it's what helps us grow most by making us face things about ourselves we otherwise may not have.  It does build character.  It does make me a well rounded person who can descriminate who I want to spend my time with, and on what issues.  It does allow me to relate to others who are in difficult situations so I can better help them.

Hey I wish I didn't have such adversity in my life.  But I do.  And being made to suffer for my Master from time to time has allowed me to deal with the heavy blows life brought me.  To each their own.  But I saw all these threads knocking proponents of what I'm talking about, and I had to say something.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 180
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