quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Okay, am I reading correctly? (I'm super tired lol).
Are you asking her if it is okay before you give an order or directive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
At this point, pretty much, yes.  Which rather takes the bite out of D/s doesn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does this bring to mind?  I find that sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don't, and because I want to avoid it I find myself in the position of asking a question that means "Is it ok to give you an order about this?" which royally screws with the sense of M/s for me even if I wanted her to get her way.  Which I don't.  But the resentment just rains all over my parade even if I "get what I want".  Is this passive aggression?  If so, what would you say about passive aggressive behaviour in an M/s situation?

Honestly, the more you post the more I believe that you couldn't dominate yourself out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it. 

You really need help with the whole "it's not MY fault" thing you got going.  Truly.

Again, you personally are not capable of this type of relationship at this point in your life.  You NEED a mentor in the very worst way.

I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, but geeeeeeez, this is a neverending thing with you two.  If you want an M/s relationship, then take the advice of so many people here and get the help you need to create it.  This kind of relationship absolutely requires each party, not just one, both, to take long, critical looks at themselves and honestly figure out where changes may need to be made on both parts.

Being Master is far more than just being boss.  It is a relationship that has to be grown into and developed with time and you simply cannot expect instanenous perfection, but you have to be willing to take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

So far, you just want to be boss, micromanage, and bitch and lay blame at her feet when something doesn't go the way your narrow little brain thinks it should.  If anyone needs punishment in this relationship, I'd say it's you. 

Get smart.  Be realistic.  Be honest.  Do not place blame.  Accept responsibility.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant well, and reply.  I've been at this for 8 years, and am active in the local BDSM community.  Classes, clubs, events, and so on.  If I wasn't keen on hearing people out, I wouldn't have posted this thread.  I get advice from everyone, I just don't have a greying "Master Don Dan the daddy man" picked out whose name to hide behind and say "I do this because super elder dom said to".  I go out to talk to people like that every chance I get however, and am actually going out to Edges tonight.  Please though, more honey less vinegar.

As for not taking blame, I really don't care who is to blame for what.  I simply want the problem understood, and resolved.  Therefore I have no idea what you are referring to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
.

Violeta: I am not a service top, in fact, perhaps my sig needs that disclaimer since people seem amazed that I'm doing things to please my own self.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Not for me :)  I will often ask my partner about an order I'm considering giving him.  I want his input, I want him to challenge my perspectives and fill in the holes I might have, I want to know how he processes orders and how they might effect us short and long term.

It completely enriches the process to know that he's not only following my will, but that he understands exactly WHY he is.

If I just wanted to give orders and have them done, I'd hire someone.

But then my partner has had issues in his life where he simply obeys without understanding, or obeys due to guilt, or obeys due to lack of self esteem.  I made it my priority to teach him to learn to obey me for the right reasons.  In order to do that, I must understand exactly how he processes orders from start to finish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

She says I don't make a great enough allowance for reality.  That we both want the same thing in fantasy, but different things in reality if I'm understanding correctly.

To be very blunt, as I'm sure you expect from me, I'm inclined to agree with her. However I would have to know the specifics to have an actual opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
Ah, the meat of the matter, finally.  So passive aggression might happen because it's more ok to be resentful, than to say what one actually wants, or to top from the bottom?  If Jodi's not happy yielding at the level I want, I want it identified at the outset so we can have reasonable mutual expectations from each other.  We've discussed having a regularly re-negotiated contract to that end.

Not more ok, but less dreaded. The term and scolding phrase "topping from the bottom" is vastly overused in my opinion and some subs/slave may be resorting to passive aggressive (which is, to be clear, undesirable behavior) tactics to avoid the possible labeling. However for your case, if she telling you quite clearly that you making her do something would cause her to resent you then I really can't view that as passive aggressive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

Okay, am I reading correctly? (I'm super tired lol).
Are you asking her if it is okay before you give an order or directive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
At this point, pretty much, yes.  Which rather takes the bite out of D/s doesn't it?

I personally would be so confused that resentment would pour out of me. It doesn't just take the bite out, it removes all of the power exchange for me.
I'm having trouble finding the words so please bear with me. If R asked me if he could master me then the balance would be so far tipped over that I wouldn't know what to do.

You seem to be caught. Not receiving what you think you want, she isn't receiving mastering but more confusion from you. By asking you undermine the very thing which you strive for.

I understand that you both have trouble communicating needs, so this feels like you are trying but in the wrong direction. Fudge. I am just in too much lupus fog to make sense so I will leave this til later. Final thought tho,

If you can't get across what you need, time & time again then please ak take a look at how YOU are communicating to her. Feels that neither of you really listen to the other, you don't listen past the words to the intent/emotion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
How can we work to eliminate this between us?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does this bring to mind?  I find that sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don't, and because I want to avoid it I find myself in the position of asking a question that means "Is it ok to give you an order about this?" which royally screws with the sense of M/s for me even if I wanted her to get her way.  Which I don't.  But the resentment just rains all over my parade even if I "get what I want".  Is this passive aggression?  If so, what would you say about passive aggressive behaviour in an M/s situation?

Honestly, the more you post the more I believe that you couldn't dominate yourself out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it. 

You really need help with the whole "it's not MY fault" thing you got going.  Truly.

Again, you personally are not capable of this type of relationship at this point in your life.  You NEED a mentor in the very worst way.

I'm not trying to be snarky or mean, but geeeeeeez, this is a neverending thing with you two.  If you want an M/s relationship, then take the advice of so many people here and get the help you need to create it.  This kind of relationship absolutely requires each party, not just one, both, to take long, critical looks at themselves and honestly figure out where changes may need to be made on both parts.

Being Master is far more than just being boss.  It is a relationship that has to be grown into and developed with time and you simply cannot expect instanenous perfection, but you have to be willing to take responsibility for yourself and your actions.

So far, you just want to be boss, micromanage, and bitch and lay blame at her feet when something doesn't go the way your narrow little brain thinks it should.  If anyone needs punishment in this relationship, I'd say it's you. 

Get smart.  Be realistic.  Be honest.  Do not place blame.  Accept responsibility.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant well, and reply.  I've been at this for 8 years, and am active in the local BDSM community.  Classes, clubs, events, and so on.  If I wasn't keen on hearing people out, I wouldn't have posted this thread.  I get advice from everyone, I just don't have a greying "Master Don Dan the daddy man" picked out whose name to hide behind and say "I do this because super elder dom said to".  I go out to talk to people like that every chance I get however, and am actually going out to Edges tonight.  Please though, more honey less vinegar.

As for not taking blame, I really don't care who is to blame for what.  I simply want the problem understood, and resolved.  Therefore I have no idea what you are referring to.

I'm all out of honey, as I'm all out of patience with this constant scenario with you.  This problem is the same as the last ones you've presented on these boards, the only difference is they're dressed in different clothes.  You don't need honey, you need something that will get your attention and wake you the hell up.  Eight years, no matter how active you are, doesn't mean squat when you refuse to consider the fact that you yourself just might be the problem.  You do not provide good communication.  She does not respond with good communication.  Every problem that has come up, has been her fault.  Never your fault.  Yet you don't seem to understand that because you continue having these same problems, you just might be the one with the problem.  Every time someone points out these things to you, you would rather explain more how it's not your fault rather than spend some time in introspection and deep thought to see how much of a part in your problems that you play. 

It's very easy to pass off, negate and otherwise ignore what others are saying, to your face, without any sugarcoating.  It's harder still to say, "Hmmmmmmmmm...
maybe I am wrong ..."

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian
Well the scary thing for me, is if I don't ask she'll obey and I won't know she's going to be resentful until it's too late.  Does this mean I have to make it a habit to ask her each time?

quote:


Maybe, but it takes the fun out of it for me.  I'm not saying it's practical, it's just how I'm wired.  I mean, how practical is it to be submissive?

quote:


It's about our hearts and our instincts.  Ancient Rome discovered long ago that slavery is not a particularly efficient system. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

If I learn somthing on here (unlikely from you while you're all flaming), and I apply it to my situation with Jodi, that implies I did somthing different or "less wrong" doesn't it?  I hope I'm wrong, because at least that I can change.  If Jodi's wrong, it's up to her to change it.  At least I can change myself, provided I learn anything useful. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

If I learn somthing on here (unlikely from you while you're all flaming), and I apply it to my situation with Jodi, that implies I did somthing different or "less wrong" doesn't it?  I hope I'm wrong, because at least that I can change.  If Jodi's wrong, it's up to her to change it.  At least I can change myself, provided I learn anything useful. 

Nobody is flaming you or insulting you. Simply pointing what we view as quite obvious: You and Jodi have major communication issues and you do seem very "me" focused. Nothing is going to change these opinions but you. If you dislike them, perhaps your first step would be a brutal self-examination.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does this bring to mind?  I find that sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don't, and because I want to avoid it I find myself in the position of asking a question that means "Is it ok to give you an order about this?" which royally screws with the sense of M/s for me even if I wanted her to get her way.  Which I don't.  But the resentment just rains all over my parade even if I "get what I want".  Is this passive aggression?  If so, what would you say about passive aggressive behaviour in an M/s situation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

I am not a service top, in fact, perhaps my sig needs that disclaimer since people seem amazed that I'm doing things to please my own self. 

quote:

I am not a service top, in fact, perhaps my sig needs that disclaimer since people seem amazed that I'm doing things to please my own self.    

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

I am not a service top, in fact, perhaps my sig needs that disclaimer since people seem amazed that I'm doing things to please my own self.    

And would you say that is working well for you?  From where I'm sitting, you don't seem all that pleased.

quote:

ORIGINAL: akbarbarian

What does this bring to mind?  I find that sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don't, and because I want to avoid it I find myself in the position of asking a question that means "Is it ok to give you an order about this?" which royally screws with the sense of M/s for me even if I wanted her to get her way.  Which I don't.  But the resentment just rains all over my parade even if I "get what I want".  Is this passive aggression?  If so, what would you say about passive aggressive behaviour in an M/s situation?