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RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 2:48:46 PM

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I could care less if she desires to do so, so long as it's being done to my satisfaction. Sure, she'd be easier to manage if she desired to do the things that I ask of her, but it's her who has to suffer through it, not I. except for this morning..because the father factor, otherwise she would have been taken. either way I get what I want, whether it be with fuss or without. the only one affected by her desire, or lack thereof, should be her.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 2:50:01 PM

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quote:

either way I get what I want, whether it be with fuss or without.

So you don't care if she doesn't obey then, no wonder she doesn't!

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 2:52:29 PM

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that's not what I said. I said i didn't care if she LIKES to obey. read more carefully, friend.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 3:20:42 PM

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She sounds to me like she is a spoiled little girl. Often those who are spoiled act out because they want the attention and they secretly want to be disciplined. What might be helpful is write down specific things she does and the consequences of doing them, then stick to that list at all times. Alternatively, use rewards for proper behavior -- things she would not normally get that she might want. If she goes a full day without acting out, give her a treat. She is acting less like a puppy and more like a three year old.

Most of the posters have been saying not to use punishment, only positive rewards. As anyone who has handled a toddler knows, You need an effective combination of the two to successfully train behaviors. Corner time works well for punishment.
An effective deterrent for tantrums is to ignore them. Her behavior is not worth noticing when she is acting out. Above all, don't let her provoke You into a display of anger... that's playing into her hands. Above all, remain calm.

It is good that You stuck her in a corner when You were irritated with her instead of using a corporal punishment. Such self-restraint will be necessary for proper retraining. :-)

g

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RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 3:26:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

either way I get what I want, whether it be with fuss or without. the only one affected by her desire, or lack thereof, should be her.

So she is used to a dynamic where it doesn't matter if she obeys well (no fussing, no cursing) or not. You have said that she enjoys being made to do things and the only problem was that on this particular morning you couldn't make her because her father was in the other room. I'm not seeing why you would have expected her to behave otherwise then.

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(in reply to TwiztdErotic)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 3:37:43 PM

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Since she obeys being forced and you don't have the skills to make her desire to serve, she is the one in control not you. This is a perfect example of how topping from the bottom takes place. Someone who is not in control of the situation and someone who is in control of it. Whenever she wants to be submissive, she acts submissive, whenever she wants to be taken and forced, she acts out and the "dominant" does exactly what she wants.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:02:37 PM

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considering this behavior has caused her to be released for the second time, I hardly think she'd agree that she gets what she wants. As I've stated previously, I found that behavior to be unacceptable. If I was in the mood to indulge her, I would. If I wasn't, then I didn't. In either case, her actions were discussed and it was made clear to her what was expected.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:06:20 PM

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I'm not so sure I would call it topping from the bottom. It seems more that she is a brat sub and that is causing the problem, not that the dom is not in control. Just that she refuses the control until she wants it.
Close to topping from the bottom maybe, but not quite IMO. Manipulative yes. Manipulating his reactions, not so sure on that one from all that I have read here.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:11:06 PM

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I think with a combination of a weak and contrary dom and a bratish sub no wonder he woke up a 5 am looking for help.

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(in reply to camille65)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:19:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I'm not so sure I would call it topping from the bottom. It seems more that she is a brat sub and that is causing the problem, not that the dom is not in control. Just that she refuses the control until she wants it.
Close to topping from the bottom maybe, but not quite IMO. Manipulative yes. Manipulating his reactions, not so sure on that one from all that I have read here.

Control means getting what you want when you want it, if you have to punish, you are not in control. Do we consider parents good when their children behave or when they are little shits running around and the parents are constantly spanking/giving corner time?

She is getting what she wants, when she wants it and the 24 year old dominant is not yet up to the task of changing her behavior. When she feels submissive she is obedeience, when she wants him to be "stern uber dom" she acts out and he plays the role she wants, that is the very definition of topping from the bottom.

(in reply to camille65)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:21:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

Similar fits have been thrown no matter the time nor the task. This occurs outside of D/s and outside of myself, as well.

She expresses a clear desire to serve me, but, the problem, as I see it, is that she lacks the mental stability to do so.

I'm not sure she can survive without me. she's told me in the past, on several occasions, that if it wasn't for me she'd probably be dead.

When a life may be on the line, things get a little more complicated.

Quotes were snipped and pieced together.

So... she pitches fits, she wants to serve you until its time for her to do something, and she has convinced you that she would be dead without you.

In the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for ya??" Not too well it seems. It's a huge burden to be responsible for the LIFE of another adult. Did you say you were a masochist???

Cali

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:28:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Control means getting what you want when you want it, if you have to punish, you are not in control. Do we consider parents good when their children behave or when they are little shits running around and the parents are constantly spanking/giving corner time?

What a perfectly wonderful and simple example and point. (now if i could've understood THAT one a year and a half ago it woulda made life sooo much easier)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

She is getting what she wants, when she wants it and the 24 year old dominant is not yet up to the task of changing her behavior. When she feels submissive she is obedeience, when she wants him to be "stern uber dom" she acts out and he plays the role she wants, that is the very definition of topping from the bottom.

That was totally me at 25-26 or so. Almost to a "tee". It wasn't until i gave up on being in a BDSM relationship for a few years and then met my Daddy and learned about being a slave that i actually understood that at best i was a bottom...at worst...just a bratty pain in the ass.

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:30:55 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwiztdErotic

I look at it this way..If I had a dog and I woke up at 3am and decided to take my dog out for a run, what would happen? The dog would wake up, wag his/her little tail and happily run alongside me. If it barked at me every time I woke it up, or attempted to play fetch, I wouldn't have much incentive to keep the dog, would I? Why then, should the situation differ to such an extreme degree with my puppyslut?

Preface: Yeah, I know he's not talking about a real dog, but the analogy applies.

Just wondering if you've ever actually had a dog. Dog owners know that at least 50% of the time the dog will do something retarded, ESPECIALLY during puppyhood. Dogs can be stubborn and disobedient at the best of times. Even well trained dogs will sometimes act out. If you're the sort of person who gets a dog expecting it to always obey you, and to do what you want it to all the time no matter whether it is day or night, then you are a fool, and a bad owner.

I see far too much of this "if she doesn't do what I want, then why should I keep her" attitude going on. You have to work WITH your submissive, she is a living, breathing creature with needs and all the rest of it. Now, was she bad? Sure. Do you have to deal with it? Yeah.

The reason why we keep dogs that chew our slippers, bark at the wrong times, eat the christmas dinner and the rest of it is because of the way they wag their tails when we come home, for the feeling we get when they do learn a command, for the pure joy of seeing a rambunctious puppy become a solid companion. But that takes work, A LOT of work, and if you bail when they are still pissing on the carpet, you'll never know that joy.

(in reply to TwiztdErotic)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 4:47:10 PM

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Here is my opinion on it. You released her twice...slaves are like children in some ways (they are NOT children), but they behave as such. Remember punishment only decreases the behavior but it does not correct it. I understand the implications that she is a slave and therefore you wish for her to do whatever pleases you- but you also must become the Master who trains her to do as such. Right now you have a slave who recents your punishments and possibly recents the fact that you requested service near her relative. She has also been walked away from by you. So you have trust issues. She is also being manipulative in someways but also angry at you in other ways. I would suggest re-shaping her behavior by looking at why she is responding the ways she is- which I have told you. And then come up with a plan of action. Use the ABC Method Antecedent, Behavior, & Consequence. You could also try positive reinforcement.

If you want her you will have to come up with more than punishment. I would say your relationship with her at this point is is repairable, but it won't be soon.

< Message edited by Kaiynasha -- 11/25/2007 4:49:50 PM >

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RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 6:59:44 PM

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quote:

either way I get what I want, whether it be with fuss or without. the only one affected by her desire, or lack thereof, should be her.

yea, i have a problem with this statement too...as said earlier...good behavior - reward, bad behavior - nothing...

like training a canine...no matter how much you want the dog to sit, if it is jumping around like a crazy alien...ignore it...yelling at it and forcing it to sit will do absolutely no good in training it...

when it is calm and receptive, teach it to sit, give it the reward....repeat, then associate a verbal comand with the physical and reward, then take out the physical...you can go further and make it just a hand signal...

sorry to say it...but training a slave works much the same way, however, much faster...

chelle

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(in reply to TwiztdErotic)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 7:19:56 PM

MasterManyfaces

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My simple suggestion would be that if she cannot wake up properly, then she doesn't get to sleep. She can keep respectful vigil and sleep after you have left in the morning. A few nights of this should yield good response.

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 7:34:18 PM

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(in reply to MasterManyfaces)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 8:10:58 PM

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To the OP :

After your done screwing up this relationship, wait about a month until your ego has healed and your done blaming her for all the problems, THEN when your ego is repaired and you can accept that you played a part in its demise, attempt to reflect back and learn a thing or two.

You've snagged yourself a bottom who is giving you a run for your money.

This bad experience, if you learn from it, will help you grow leaps and bounds as a dominant.

How do I know? Because my first relations with a "submissive" was somewhat on par with this and at a time when I still didn't know up from down about M/S.

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(in reply to sexyred1)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/25/2007 10:53:24 PM

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I don't know about anyone else but the fact that her father is sleeping outside of her door is a real problem for me. There is no way I would do anything sexual with a man when my father is in the same building. I find that tasteless, tacky and disrespectful. I would question the character of a man who would want me to do something like that when my parents are around, be they asleep or awake. Now if that was the reason for her acting that way, I completely understand.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

RE: open for response until 7am est - 11/26/2007 12:21:26 AM

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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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Someone earlier said about training a dog and if it is good saying, "Good dog." and if it is bad saying "Bad dog." To me this is unacceptable training and I tried to stay away from it as much as possible with my gorgeous pooch. What I learned is you want them to focus on the behaviour being wrong, not them. I was taught to not use my dog's name in anger. Not to say, "NO LUCY!!!" but to say "NOOOOOO" so she gets the NO but not associated to who she is. Ya see? It is beautiful. She is always a good dog. Who said she is supposed to never bark or what not? She is a dog not a robot.

I reward her verbally, "Good girl, Lucy. Lucy, good, good girl, you are SO smart." and "NOoooOOOoo" when she does something I dont want her to do. They said to start out saying no like it was the grossest thing, thus lots of expression in the 'no'. This way our bond is basically never broken. I dont only have my dog because she wags her tail when I come home. She makes me feel safe. She alerts me when someone comes to the door. She has taught me how to take really good care of something other than myself. She gives me loads of stuff in her very special way.

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(in reply to suggababy23)

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